Mullen: Troops Who Balk at Change in Gay Service Policy Can Find Other Work

[Elephant]

Maybe not. Thanks to Joe Liberman, who's going ot introduce a "stand alone" bill for DADT

Gee, why couldn't they do that for health care?

Last I heard, he was only considering it. Has he made the move?

 

[Sarge]

Well, I hope the libs are happy

Here's a nice sampling from the Air Force boards

12/20/2010 4:27:24 PM ET
I am really disappointed that DADT has been repealed. Our leadership openly supported repeal before the flawed study results were available. They say 70 percent support repeal when very few answered the survey. Can't imagine all the brainwash training that will be required. I will not play this game. Retirement Papers dropped
MSgt, Nellis




12/20/2010 3:16:43 PM ET
I hope part of the plan will include a way for those of us who oppose this to get out. If I could drop retirement paperwork I would.
MSgt, Sheppard

12/20/2010 3:14:36 PM ET
Wonder how many sensitivity/compassion CBT's we will have to do for this
G, RAF Lakenheath

12/20/2010 8:57:51 AM ET
And so it begins...It will be very interesting to see how this all goes down.
J, Illinois

12/19/2010 10:48:09 PM ET
This is not going to make us any stronger, just weaken us from the inside out. Can't wait for a change in leadership that actually cares about us.
Jay, Kansas

12/19/2010 12:31:19 AM ET
I hope that Secretary Gates and Adm Mullen consider what they are going to do with those who morally object to this. Please consider an early retirement option. I'm not quite retirement eligible but if I were, I would be dropping my paper work
MSgt, Sheppard

12/18/2010 9:40:02 PM ET
Disgusting, simply disgusting. All sexual parameters are now called into question. Remember the DODs prohibition against service members seeing prostitutes...well is it OK now. What about the UCMJ's prohibition against sex in the presence of others--orgys...well is it now OK for us heterosexuals And what about those multiple partners...is polygamy now OK? Totally disgusting...where do I file my retirement paperwork?
Sandman, Maxwell

12/18/2010 6:13:13 PM ET
Adm Mullen said Successful implementation will depend upon... proactive education throughout the force. My question is Will members who disagree with this policy have to have their integrity sacrificed during this training? There seem to be a lot who RELIGIOUSLY believe homosexuality is wrong, what do their beliefs come second now

 

[Lanky Livingston]

An article from a current USMC Infantry Captain:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/16/AR2010121606084.html

 

[Sarge]

You have to take anything officers say with a grain of salt, as a lot of them don't have to put up with the same living conditions as the enlisted

 

[Lanky Livingston]

What do sleeping arrangements have to do with anything?
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Sarge]

What do sleeping arrangements have to do with anything?
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Really?

Really?

See, this is part of the problem. Civilians have no concept of military life. And yet most of the one's clamoring for repeal were civilians

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And you have no answer. Humor me.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Sarge]

And you have no answer. Humor me.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Was that to me or Mike?

 

[fansince62]

You have to take anything officers say with a grain of salt, as a lot of them don't have to put up with the same living conditions as the enlisted

now now Sarge. true...enlisted spaces onboard ship are cramped. but 3 man for O's wasn't much bigger and 8 man for JOs was tight. in the event...no privacy. there is, of course, a hidden agenda to all of thus that goes far beyond open declaration of sexuality. while the principle in play seems fair, it neglects to observe other equities and it will be manipulated. just like with Hassan...this will balloon into a political correctness issue with ramifications for personnel management and discipline. the EEO will be working this overtime - ask any officer who has had to deal with bogus EEO claims - which the chain almost always placates to avoid visibility on their annual evaluations.

as a retired aviator...I can't imagine how this will play out at the squadron level where group cohesion has a strong social element. no idea how some of the rambunctious parties I attended as a JO will turn out once the activity includes guys smacking lips. have fun Sarge and Mike!!!!

 

[fansince62]

Really?

Really?

See, this is part of the problem. Civilians have no concept of military life. And yet most of the one's clamoring for repeal were civilians

not exactly. they don't care.

what's amazing to me is how many senior officers cow tow to pressure when you know behind closed doors a different pov is expressed.

 

[Sarge]

have fun Sarge and Mike!!!!

I'm done dude. Retired in 06, thank God. However, I have a friend that is now in a spot. He is going to drop paperwork over this, but doesn't want Obama's signature on his retirement certificate

I told his dumb ass to retire back when Obama won the election

 

[Henry]

More criticism of the new policy:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-paves-way-for-gay-sex,17698/

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Was that to me or Mike?

That was for you - I didn't see Mike's reply, as I was on my phone.

really? do you sleep fully dressed? i know i dont and i also know that from my bed to the shower i might just be in a towel. not every gay guy is going to stare at me ( ive heard that line and believe it) but why do I have to risk having that one doing it? if he gets to stare at all the men he wants why am I not allowed to walk in to the women's restroom and do the same?

It *seems* to me that the only thing wrong in this scenario is homophobia. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have no problem being naked in front of a guy you don't know is gay, but as soon as you are aware of his sexual orientation, it becomes a problem?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I will assume "hetrophobia" is fear of heterosexuals; what does a woman being naked in front of the opposite sex have to do with this scenario? No male soldier will have to be naked in front of a female, or vice versa, with the repeal of DADT.

 

[fansince62]

I'm done dude. Retired in 06, thank God. However, I have a friend that is now in a spot. He is going to drop paperwork over this, but doesn't want Obama's signature on his retirement certificate

I told his dumb ass to retire back when Obama won the election

yea...I know some folks who are gonna drop their papers as well. all for the better as the new START Treaty sells us out in other ways: more time to prepare for the inbounds! so...finally...we figure out the adminstration's strategy for reducing DoD manpower costs!

 

[fansince62]

can we say that women have hetrophobia then? because im not really going to be staring at the ugly women even if they are naked.

Big Mike...advise you drop it. As Sarge noted....context escapes those who don't live it. plus....as I have noted.....the conversation is really much broader. this is just the first shot at what is to follow.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

if a gay man is allowed to sleep/shower with the sex he is attracted to I dont see how they can say no to a straight man wanting to berth with the sex he is attracted to. that becomes a double standard.

I see what you are saying, but gay men already sleep and shower with other men in the military. The only difference now is that they have the option to be openly gay. I'm just curious how it changes if you KNOW someone is gay.

Also, as to an openly gay man checking out other dudes in the shower, I'm sure those types of things will "sort themselves out." If a guy is blatant about it, I'm sure he'll get beaten with socks full of soap or whatever it is the military is doing to haze people these days. But the point remains - this is already happening.

 

[Sarge]

I will assume "hetrophobia" is fear of heterosexuals; what does a woman being naked in front of the opposite sex have to do with this scenario? No male soldier will have to be naked in front of a female, or vice versa, with the repeal of DADT.

Yes they will

 

[Sarge]

I see what you are saying, but gay men already sleep and shower with other men in the military. The only difference now is that they have the option to be openly gay. I'm just curious how it changes if you KNOW someone is gay.

Also, as to an openly gay man checking out other dudes in the shower, I'm sure those types of things will "sort themselves out." If a guy is blatant about it, I'm sure he'll get beaten with socks full of soap or whatever it is the military is doing to haze people these days. But the point remains - this is already happening.

Oh, I'm sure there will be some live fire incidents. In the Navy there'll be a few more overboard. But what's going ot happen is that gays will become a protected class, like women and minorities are now. I can't even imagine the headaches this going to cause senior NCO's

The thing about the showers and other intimate areas, we know gays are there now. We just don't know for certain. That gives 98% of the military a certain degree of comfort in what is probably otherwise a crappy situation. Once Neil comes out and says he's gay, and he's standing there in the shower with you, it's a whole different story. In effect, you have a girl, or at least a person that thinks like a girl insofar as sexual attraction is concerned, in the shower with you

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Oh, I'm sure there will be some live fire incidents. In the Navy there'll be a few more overboard. But what's going ot happen is that gays will become a protected class, like women and minorities are now. I can't even imagine the headaches this going to cause senior NCO's

Oh, its such a headache to make sure women, minorities and gays are treated equally. Did you really just type that? Unbelievable.

The thing about the showers and other intimate areas, we know gays are there now. We just don't know for certain. That gives 98% of the military a certain degree of comfort in what is probably otherwise a crappy situation. Once Neil comes out and says he's gay, and he's standing there in the shower with you, it's a whole different story. In effect, you have a girl, or at least a person that thinks like a girl insofar as sexual attraction is concerned, in the shower with you

Even IF a guy spends an extra second looking at your junk, its not going to hurt you, I promise. Everyone is there for the same reason; gay guys are just as professional as straight ones.