MMQB:Any Sense of Stability is Sacrificed

[Primus Porcus]

On twitter, a reporter shared Rex Ryan's thoughts about the situation. He suggested that Gruden start RG3, just to remove any doubt left in the minds of anyone who believes he should be the QB--Snyder and the fans. For closure. And then the team can move forward.

Personally, I don't think Gruden wants to see the kid get killed on the field. Unlike Shanny, I believe the guy actually has a conscience.

Shanny benched him the last 3 weeks of the season dude..

 

[Henry]

On twitter, a reporter shared Rex Ryan's thoughts about the situation. He suggested that Gruden start RG3, just to remove any doubt left in the minds of anyone who believes he should be the QB--Snyder and the fans. For closure. And then the team can move forward.

Personally, I don't think Gruden wants to see the kid get killed on the field. Unlike Shanny, I believe the guy actually has a conscience.

You're kidding right?

Gruden, the guy who's starting Colt neck-injury McCoy this week has a conscience?

No. He's got a thing about Griffin. He would rather play a third stringer with a neck injury than that let Griffin play an absolutely meaningless game. That right there is closure. If Griffin won't start for Gruden under these circumstances he never ever will.

But let's not pretend he's protecting anyone.

 

[ntotoro]

No. He's got a thing about Griffin. He would rather play a third stringer with a neck injury than that let Griffin play an absolutely meaningless game. That right there is closure. If Griffin won't start for Gruden under these circumstances he never ever will.

Hence my post about the former coworker of mine who was being bullied. Sometimes a "boss" just has a hardon for someone and nothing will cure it. These two guys cannot coexist in any way, shape or form. I think Gruden is in so far over his head, he thinks he's playing water polo.

Nick

 

[GSF]

You guys debating whether the failure is Gruden's fault or RG3's fault are really missing the point. It's all of their faults. Gruden completely failed to adapt an offense to RG3's strengths, and to manage Griffin's attitude, ego, study habits ect. Griffin failed to put the hours in to refine his footwork, learn how to read defenses, and improve his fundamentals. He was also not mature enough to refrain from throwing his teammates under the bus in press conferences. I personally believe this was a big part of Gruden's souring on Griffin so quickly. Allen and his FO staff completely failed to put a competent line in front of their franchise QB who was coming off 2 knee injuries. Amazingly they have made this mistake year after year after year.

Bottom line is their is plenty of blame to go around with everyone involved, but the one constant through all of this mess and the many re-occurring messes of the last 15 years is Dan Snyder. There's just no denying it. Please don't talk about evidence whether or not Snyder is meddling. The proof is on the field. Allen is not a real GM any more than Vinny was. Allen is just another highly paid playmate for Snyder.

So where does the team go from here? Another failed coach, another first round bust at QB, and this time they gave up a bunch of high draft picks to get him. What now? Blow up the team and start over with Allen and Snyder calling the shots? Good luck with that.

Unless Snyder somehow miraculously gets run over by the team bus, he's not going anywhere and the team is never going to change. It's just going to be the same old show over and over with different casts of characters.

Me, I'm like Henry, I'm way pasting giving 2 shits. I didn't watch the Rams game, thank God, and let me tell you it was liberating! I probably won't watch any more games this season, well maybe the cowboys game. I will always love my Skins, but I sure as hell aint going to lose any sleep over them lol...The only reason I keep coming in here is because I like reading what you guys have to say.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Dan Snyder and Scott Campbell are the two constants.

Scott Campbell, the son of Marion Campbell, former Falcons head coach that had an illustrious 34-80-1 record as head coach. Yeah, that Marion Campbell.

Scott's been here 13 yrs and has had his hand in everything personnel wise from draft to free agents and yet he's still here and in all likelihood will survive when Bruce and Jay are gone, cause that's just how Snyder rolls.

May the suck be with us.

 

[McD5]

Just the name Marion alone should have been a big red flag.

What the hell were they thinking?

 

[micks113]

You guys debating whether the failure is Gruden's fault or RG3's fault are really missing the point. It's all of their faults. Gruden completely failed to adapt an offense to RG3's strengths, and to manage Griffin's attitude, ego, study habits ect. Griffin failed to put the hours in to refine his footwork, learn how to read defenses, and improve his fundamentals. He was also not mature enough to refrain from throwing his teammates under the bus in press conferences. I personally believe this was a big part of Gruden's souring on Griffin so quickly. Allen and his FO staff completely failed to put a competent line in front of their franchise QB who was coming off 2 knee injuries. Amazingly they have made this mistake year after year after year.

Bottom line is their is plenty of blame to go around with everyone involved, but the one constant through all of this mess and the many re-occurring messes of the last 15 years is Dan Snyder. There's just no denying it. Please don't talk about evidence whether or not Snyder is meddling. The proof is on the field. Allen is not a real GM any more than Vinny was. Allen is just another highly paid playmate for Snyder.

So where does the team go from here? Another failed coach, another first round bust at QB, and this time they gave up a bunch of high draft picks to get him. What now? Blow up the team and start over with Allen and Snyder calling the shots? Good luck with that.

Unless Snyder somehow miraculously gets run over by the team bus, he's not going anywhere and the team is never going to change. It's just going to be the same old show over and over with different casts of characters.

Me, I'm like Henry, I'm way pasting giving 2 shits. I didn't watch the Rams game, thank God, and let me tell you it was liberating! I probably won't watch any more games this season, well maybe the cowboys game. I will always love my Skins, but I sure as hell aint going to lose any sleep over them lol...The only reason I keep coming in here is because I like reading what you guys have to say.

The Cowboys game is one I will not watch. I can't take that one, living in the suburbs of Dallas. If Dallas loses Sun then I can watch. The odds are against us knocking them out of the playoffs again, but if we sweep, what a great season imho. I will watch Giants and Phil because its always interesting playing division teams.

 

[Ax]

Sure. The Turner years were excruciating. But that was because he was a lousy coach. If 'lousy coach' was our only problem that would be a refreshing change.

Since Turner it's been more than just a bad coach, or a bad GM, or a bad QB.

Just pointing out that JKC, without Gibbs, presided over a losing organization. Poor drafting. Poor coaching. Poor play. The downturn did not start with the arrival of Snyder.

Gibbs made JKC a winner. JKC was quite despicable. But the team won. So everybody remembers that.

I singled your post out because, just like Dick King's article, it cherry picked Snyder's years intentionally, to insinuate that the suck started after Snyder showed up. Which simply isn't true.

Nothing personal, my friend.

 

[CounterTrey]

Lol...Rex freakin Ryan? Now THERE'S a guy to take advice on QB's from.

 

[SkinsFTW]

You guys debating whether the failure is Gruden's fault or RG3's fault are really missing the point. It's all of their faults. Gruden completely failed to adapt an offense to RG3's strengths, and to manage Griffin's attitude, ego, study habits ect.

It's only Dan Snyders fault. He hired another puppet to replace his previous puppet, who then pushed for Snyder to hire one of his buddies rather than finding a coach who wanted to fix Griffen (not that a real professional team hires a coach to fix a qb). Everybody knew before the hire that even Jay's brother preferred Cousins at QB, lol. Dan Snyder still interferes with team decisions (which some still want to disbelieve), he's still the guy who "only cares about QB's", still the guy that Vinny said wanted to give up 3 firsts, a 2nd and Jason Campbell for Cutler, and one of the most telling quotes about him was Joe Gibbs: "“We talk a lot,” Gibbs says. “We are back and forth all the time. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

After he fired Schottenheimer he said pretty much: It wasn't fun anymore owning the team while someone else got to play with all the toys. http://espn.go.com/chrismortensen/s/2002/0111/1309897.html

To Dan Snyder it's only fun to win if he is instrumental in the winning, even if we lose like we have for years. And the fact that he hired Allen as GM is pretty telling. Dan Snyder has more experience making personnel decisions than his own GM because at least between the years of 2002-2009 he was making them as well as 1999-2000. Is there any doubt who is really making those final decisions like who do we pick in the draft? Allen has NEVER done it anywhere else, why would Snyder defer to his judgement now?

Just a few random Dan Snyder quotes for you all:

"This is Marty Schottenheimer's organization from the standpoint of the final word," Snyder said. "This is something he needs to have, it's important to have."

"Many times perception is not reality," Snyder said. "I think I'm pretty hands-off. As Marty learns spending a lot of time with me, I'm not as hands-on as it may sound because I'm young and I'm sometimes in the building."
Skins' Snyder Now 'Hands'Off' - CBS News

" That free-agency night, which started at midnight—I don’t know why they started at midnight—but at midnight Joe called every single player we had on our list to call, and I called every single agent. We’re in there all night long, we’re doing deals, we sign up Shawn Springs and Cornelius Griffin . . . and we just keep going, going, going. At 6:30 we said, “All right, we all gotta sleep.”

"I’ve never actually watched film with a coach in six years. And all that media crap that says I’m sitting there meddling and stuff—I’ve never watched film with a coach. That would be embarrassing. I do the deals. I work with the agents. I work out the best terms of a contract that make it salary-cap-friendly and all that stuff. But all that stuff about, “Do I do this with coaches?” That’s all horse stuff. "
Vintage Dan Snyder: A Rare Interview With the Redskins Owner From 2004 | Sports | Washingtonian

"Steve Spurrier will bring a supercharged, exciting and dynamic brand of football to our great fans," owner Dan Snyder said in a statement. "His ability to energize players and teams is unprecedented. The Redskins deserve to be back at the Super Bowl, and I am immensely confident that Steve is the coach to get us there."

"On Jim Zorn: “The general manager needs to prevent the owner from hiring someone who’s not qualified. And that’s why Vinny is no longer here, to be truthful with you. He’s not here because his job was to prevent the owner from hiring a not-qualified coach. Having said that, we went in and had the worst two-year experience I ever dreamed. I apologized, according to my wife, ten thousand times. I apologize openly. I made a big mistake. It’s a terrible experience when you know you got the wrong guy to lead the franchise.” Dan Snyder says he fired Vinny Cerrato for letting him hire Jim Zorn - The Washington Post

"Bruce Allen is the personification of an NFL winner," Snyder said in a statement released by the team. "Our fans know his heritage; we know his abilities. He is the right person to lead our club." Bruce Allen Replaces Vinny Cerrato As Redskins GM

On the Scouts being disregarded by Dan Snyder in the draft:
“Vinny wanted to take Jamaal Charles, and he was overruled in favor of Malcolm Kelly,” Schefter said. “Vinny was in charge of the front office; I know that the front office wanted Jamaal Charles, and that was the pick. And there aren’t too many people that can overrule the front office for Malcolm Kelly.” The Redskins, Malcolm Kelly and Jamaal Charles - The Washington Post

Now Morocco Brown quits, goes to Cleveland instead and says "My title now reflects what I do more than it did in Washington," Morocco Brown, Cleveland Browns, Ray Farmer, Johnny Manziel: Career advancement, friendship steered Morocco Brown from Redskins to Browns - Daily Press

 

[fansince62]

There's a qualified football guy out there willing to take on The Dan. Zero doubt.

Egos are powerful things.

Getting the right guy? That's a whole 'nother story ... but it's one that can't even begin to be told until Dan decides to buy a book.

Peter King does have an agenda...so eff him.

I also agree with this.....just not sure on the timeline. If it can happen to a sad sack organization like Cincy...it can happen in DC.

 

[Henry]

Just pointing out that JKC, without Gibbs, presided over a losing organization. Poor drafting. Poor coaching. Poor play. The downturn did not start with the arrival of Snyder.

Gibbs made JKC a winner. JKC was quite despicable. But the team won. So everybody remembers that.

I singled your post out because, just like Dick King's article, it cherry picked Snyder's years intentionally, to insinuate that the suck started after Snyder showed up. Which simply isn't true.

Nothing personal, my friend.

JKC was not a winner because of Gibbs. Cooke may have personally been an ass, but he was nothing like Snyder. Cooke was a sports guy from birth. He owned teams from every single major sport, and soccer, and horse racing. Dude lived, breathed and died sports. He's a member of the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, he won an NBA championship as the owner of the Lakers. He won three NFL titles with Gibbs. Cooke had a looong record of success and hiring excellent sports people to run the day-to-day operations of his teams. Gibbs was not the only Hall of Famer Cooke ever hired, and it's extremely silly to suggest that it was luck that JKC found Gibbs when he did.

What happened from 1994-1999 was that Turner was hired and we spent three years completely rebuilding the team from the ground up. Then JKC died and the ownership situation was thrown into flux. John Cooke was not an experienced owner or shrewd businessman like Jack was and couldn't deal with the toxic relationship between Turner and Casserly. Then John got elbowed out and we lost Trent Green. And then Snyder bought the team and that was all she wrote.

So yes, the Redskins were a terrible team for a few years leading up to Snyder. Those years were really just a downturn as the Window Closes, which happens to all teams at some point or another. Good teams pick themselves back up after a few years, as the Redskins did after Allen left, for example. Or the Steelers did after Noll left. Or the Giants did after Parcells left. Or the Eagles did after Reid left. Or the Ravens did after Billick left. Given JKC's track record of ownership throughout the decades it is likely we'd have also eventually found our way back like those teams under his leadership had he been, say, ten years younger. Or had an owner not named Dan Snyder taken over the team maybe we could have done it.

Sadly, Snyder bought the team and, save for the blip on the radar that was the Gibbs years, has steady driven this team into the ground. Now there is no rebuild. There is no upturn. There is nothing. As it has been for fifteen years (again, minus the Gibbs years. That man deserves the Hall of Fame more than anyone outside of DC will ever realize.)

And the suggestion that this team under Cooke's ownership minus Joe Gibbs was the same as it was under Snyder because of a few losing seasons leading up to Snyder's ownership is far worse stat-cherry-picking than anything King did. Or I did, for that matter.

 

[fansince62]

You guys debating whether the failure is Gruden's fault or RG3's fault are really missing the point. It's all of their faults. Gruden completely failed to adapt an offense to RG3's strengths, and to manage Griffin's attitude, ego, study habits ect. Griffin failed to put the hours in to refine his footwork, learn how to read defenses, and improve his fundamentals. He was also not mature enough to refrain from throwing his teammates under the bus in press conferences. I personally believe this was a big part of Gruden's souring on Griffin so quickly. Allen and his FO staff completely failed to put a competent line in front of their franchise QB who was coming off 2 knee injuries. Amazingly they have made this mistake year after year after year.

Bottom line is their is plenty of blame to go around with everyone involved, but the one constant through all of this mess and the many re-occurring messes of the last 15 years is Dan Snyder. There's just no denying it. Please don't talk about evidence whether or not Snyder is meddling. The proof is on the field. Allen is not a real GM any more than Vinny was. Allen is just another highly paid playmate for Snyder.

So where does the team go from here? Another failed coach, another first round bust at QB, and this time they gave up a bunch of high draft picks to get him. What now? Blow up the team and start over with Allen and Snyder calling the shots? Good luck with that.

Unless Snyder somehow miraculously gets run over by the team bus, he's not going anywhere and the team is never going to change. It's just going to be the same old show over and over with different casts of characters.

Me, I'm like Henry, I'm way pasting giving 2 shits. I didn't watch the Rams game, thank God, and let me tell you it was liberating! I probably won't watch any more games this season, well maybe the cowboys game. I will always love my Skins, but I sure as hell aint going to lose any sleep over them lol...The only reason I keep coming in here is because I like reading what you guys have to say.

we've been walking different paths up to this point. this is a terrific post - it captures what a lot of other folks are feeling/thinking. I'll nuance it with my own take: I do agree Snyder is accountable. where things fall on a day to day management basis I'm not that sure. there's a lot in play. that said...I've finally reached that tipping point - I just don't care.

 

[Henry]

Me, I'm like Henry, I'm way pasting giving 2 shits. I didn't watch the Rams game, thank God, and let me tell you it was liberating! I probably won't watch any more games this season, well maybe the cowboys game. I will always love my Skins, but I sure as hell aint going to lose any sleep over them lol...The only reason I keep coming in here is because I like reading what you guys have to say.

I didn't make any grand pronouncements, but I decided to take the season off after Ray Rice and my total disgust of Goodell and all things NFL. That was Week Two, so I haven't watched any games this season, Redskins or otherwise, save the Texans game. Other than casually checking the standings once in awhile I don't really know who's good or bad this year, or anything else.

And it's been wonderful. Despite my posts over the past few days I haven't done any hand-wringing or hair-pulling this year. I've slept well and felt better about life (during football season) than I have in years.

The only reason I'm back now is not to trash the team or even Dan Snyder (I know it seems like that). It's really just because I miss you guys, and I decided I can't take my anger and frustrations with the league out on this board. I'm just talking about this now because it's something to talk about. Yes, I believe Dan Snyder is the problem. Yes, I think the Redskins are doomed as long as he runs the team. No, I don't really care anymore. The NFL can suck it, as far as I'm concerned. All of it. It's an awful, corrupt, vile organization, and the Redskins being terrible in a terrible league has very little meaning these days.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent like that. My main point was I feel much better having not watched much football this season.

 

[servumtuum]

Just pointing out that JKC, without Gibbs, presided over a losing organization. Poor drafting. Poor coaching. Poor play. The downturn did not start with the arrival of Snyder.

Gibbs made JKC a winner. JKC was quite despicable. But the team won. So everybody remembers that.

I singled your post out because, just like Dick King's article, it cherry picked Snyder's years intentionally, to insinuate that the suck started after Snyder showed up. Which simply isn't true.

Nothing personal, my friend.

Ax, I'd like to add one more component whose loss was a major factor in declining fortunes for the team, IMO.

Bobby Beathard.

We haven't had that level of player acquisition acumen available since he left.

 

[Ax]

Ax, I'd like to add one more component whose loss was a major factor in declining fortunes for the team, IMO.

Bobby Beathard.

We haven't had that level of player acquisition acumen available since he left.

Beathard was a good one. Though time has transformed him into more than what he was too. There's more luck involved in winning than most people care to admit. No, it's not mostly luck. But luck is a major player. Beathard was good, and lucky, for most of his time here.

Take away his best draft, 81 wasn't it, and his time here was very average.

 

[Ax]

On a side note, it's terrible that so many around here allow the goings on with our team to so effect their lives, in such a negative way.

I don't get it. But I'll try not to be too critical of it either.

Henry, and anybody else for that matter, are right to walk away if they can't prevent the situation from adversely affecting their lives.

 

[CounterTrey]

For me it's not about affecting my life. Spurrier broke me of the whole "grumpy Monday because of loss on Sunday" syndrome. But it's just not even fun in the slightest bit watching games right now, there is absolutely zero hope before the game even starts. If it's not fun then why bother? Keep in mind I've been a fan since 1978 so I'm hardly fair weather. This is also a first for me, never have I been in this state of hopeless despair about the team.

 

[Ax]

I've been able to keep the passion, i.e. "grumpy Monday", without letting it wear me down. I had to get control of my temper a long time ago. Jail never really seemed all that appealing. So I learned how to do the whole "controlled burn" thing. And 90% of the time, I'm successful, every time.

Coming to grips with what I can/can't control, in everything I do, along with a personal choice of pain tolerance, allows me to still enjoy whatever I can get from things, like football, and not lose my mind over the frustrations. I choose to anticipate good, knowing I will endure the bad, if that's what happens.

Didn't start out that way in 1969.

 

[fansince62]

On a side note, it's terrible that so many around here allow the goings on with our team to so effect their lives, in such a negative way.

I don't get it. But I'll try not to be too critical of it either.

Henry, and anybody else for that matter, are right to walk away if they can't prevent the situation from adversely affecting their lives.

time management is something we all do. the smart ones invest their time where the return is greater.

far as football goes...it's an entertainment industry. right now....it aint very entertaining. the smart thing to do is spend one's time in things that are entertaining....not block parts of the experience to...perhaps...create an artificial joy.