Kliff. Are you breaking up with me?

[SkinsNumberOne]

Fair, but why dont we push to get Terry Mclaurin matched up with Logan Wilson? That's the point. We have the premium player, scheme him up to a clear mismatch.

You are talking about things like pre-snap motion, right?

The Rams’ pre-snap motion always has a distinct purpose, and the stats support its increased usage in 2024

The Rams have steadily increased their usage of pre-snap motion over the past three seasons, and they've achieved better results over that time on motion plays because they always have a purpose.

www.therams.com

 

[Primus Porcus]

You are talking about things like pre-snap motion, right?

The Rams’ pre-snap motion always has a distinct purpose, and the stats support its increased usage in 2024

The Rams have steadily increased their usage of pre-snap motion over the past three seasons, and they've achieved better results over that time on motion plays because they always have a purpose.

www.therams.com

Not only pre snap motion, schematically. Create the scheme that Terry is available on a crossing route vs a LB in zone coverage. It's an easy mismatch and he runs away from it. Sure, pre-snap motion to move Terry inside if the defensive alignment is dependent on a the LB being the nickle. It's not a binary 1 or 0.. you cna do things throughout the entire play to create mismatches

 

[Chris]

If teams were playing predominantly man coverage against this team this year (which I would have been doing) then it’s pretty simple to have the top corner travel with McClaurin and minimize mismatch opportunities. If teams were frequently playing zone-type coverages then it is more doable.

(I have no idea what type of defensive schemes were being mostly utilized but I would be surprised if it were zone coverages.)

 

[Boone]

Here's the essential question for me. Can Kingsbury build an offense that is dangerous and capable of scoring when starting caliber talent is on the field? I think the answer to that is absolutely yes. Can we criticize and quibble with some calls and decisions and even some of his philosophy. Absolutely yes.

But I think judging any of these coaches very harshly in a season like this one is, well, harsh.

And yeah, some of you didn't like Kingsbury in 2024 either. But I didn't hear anyone calling for his replacement that season.

 

[DWinzit]

Here's the essential question for me. Can Kingsbury build an offense that is dangerous and capable of scoring when starting caliber talent is on the field? I think the answer to that is absolutely yes. Can we criticize and quibble with some calls and decisions and even some of his philosophy. Absolutely yes.

I agree with all of this. Kliffs play calling has created a lot of WTF moments for us fans but also looks like with DQ. He needs to clean that up, but how does that occur? He has so much experience and yet still makes these real boners.

But I think judging any of these coaches very harshly in a season like this one is, well, harsh.

And yeah, some of you didn't like Kingsbury in 2024 either. But I didn't hear anyone calling for his replacement that season.

Yes the coaches have been handed tough situations to work through with our roster weaknesses, injuries and schedule. However, would you agree that Whitt deserved harsh judgement? I do. And because of that, some judgement should have been directed at DQ for not stepping in to offer assistance until it was too late. He should have put his foot down to some degree faster than he did.

I get it if Kliff is back. I do not get it if a new DC is not brought in

 

[Boone]

No - I don’t agree with the harshness. I just don’t think Whitt Jr. is an NFL DC. I have no doubt he has done everything he is capable of doing to right the ship, but I think they need to move on from him as a DC. Should DQ have acted sooner? Probably, but loyalty and trying to give a guy every chance is not a fault either.

 

[DWinzit]

No - I don’t agree with the harshness. I just don’t think Whitt Jr. is an NFL DC. I have no doubt he has done everything he is capable of doing to right the ship, but I think they need to move on from him as a DC. Should DQ have acted sooner? Probably, but loyalty and trying to give a guy every chance is not a fault either.

I admire DQs loyalties. However, when it is obviously sinking the ship, you need to start at least offering advice on how to plug the leaky holes and bail out the water.

Whitt was a failure. Some of that was evident last season but was semi ignored due to the way the offense covered it up. Little scheming change came through the off season and while the world pointed out what was wrong with the defense, there was little adjusting and when it did come, it was too little, too late. Whitt should have been removed from his position sooner and is lucky to have been kept on the staff (does he still hold the ttitle and get paid as the DC?). If he does it feels like Hartman being labeled a QB on our roster...perhaps some sort of other DQ loyalty thing, who knows?

 

[Ashburn Dave]

Stay the course wins the race.

A new DC and his staff is the fix needed this offseason.

Kliff is not our current problem. Can Kliff take us to the promised land? I'm not convinced that he can but I will give him 1-2 more years along with DQ to figure it out.

The concern now is if another team plucks Kliff from us. I guess that wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would be a setback for next year.

Fix the DEF, get JD fully healthy, draft well, and we're back to contending for a championship again.

 

[Boone]

I admire DQs loyalties. However, when it is obviously sinking the ship, you need to start at least offering advice on how to plug the leaky holes and bail out the water.

Whitt was a failure. Some of that was evident last season but was semi ignored due to the way the offense covered it up. Little scheming change came through the off season and while the world pointed out what was wrong with the defense, there was little adjusting and when it did come, it was too little, too late. Whitt should have been removed from his position sooner and is lucky to have been kept on the staff (does he still hold the ttitle and get paid as the DC?). If he does it feels like Hartman being labeled a QB on our roster...perhaps some sort of other DQ loyalty thing, who knows?

As my friend Chris has had to point out many times over the years, we as fans have our opinions - but we need to remember players and coaches are human beings and this is their job. It doesn’t define them as human beings. Have you ever struggled in a job you were hired to do? And if you did, was it because you were a ‘failure’ or were there many factors that contributed to a lack of success?

I mean the man’s whole purpose on Earth is not to produce results that make football fans happy. I’m sure he has given it everything he knows how to give. Sometimes a role just doesn’t fit and it doesn’t work out.

And not to be harsh, but we as fans don’t know 10% of what has really gone on, behind the scenes or on the field. We think we do - but we don’t.

I agree that Whitt hasn’t looked like an NFL DC but that’s also not entirely on him.

 

[Chris]

This season has not been what anyone wanted; not the owner, the front office, the coaching staff, the players, or the fans. For the owners it has negatively impacted their significant financial investment. For the FO, the coaching staff & players, it is their livelihood. For the fans it is frustration in a chosen recreational interest.

But sometimes shit just happens. To me, to you, to everyone. When that occurs it is generally not simply due to across-the board-incompetence. The most important factor for the first four groups now is how they respond when they get punched in the mouth. And they clearly have been. The ball is now firmly in their court and they undoubtedly are aware of that.

The Karen-like portion of the fanbase will continue to Karen. I am just very thankful that I was never in a position to work for anyone as insufferable as many sports fans seem to be.

 

[DWinzit]

As my friend Chris has had to point out many times over the years, we as fans have our opinions - but we need to remember players and coaches are human beings and this is their job. It doesn’t define them as human beings. Have you ever struggled in a job you were hired to do? And if you did, was it because you were a ‘failure’ or were there many factors that contributed to a lack of success?

I mean the man’s whole purpose on Earth is not to produce results that make football fans happy. I’m sure he has given it everything he knows how to give. Sometimes a role just doesn’t fit and it doesn’t work out.

And not to be harsh, but we as fans don’t know 10% of what has really gone on, behind the scenes or on the field. We think we do - but we don’t.

I agree that Whitt hasn’t looked like an NFL DC but that’s also not entirely on him.

I am on board with you and Chris on staffers. I however do not agree with Whitt only for reasons already given. There are many jobs where if you do not perform well, regardless of situations where you do not keep your job. Whitt was willing to take a higher position which comes with increased responsibility and pay. He did a poor job and accountability is sometimes required.

 

[Boone]

I think they need to go in a different direction at DC - doubt many if any would argue that. And they will.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I think the concern on last year is still that high scramble rates in critical situations (JD being JD, on third and fourth downs) saved our bacon in critical games. We don’t make the playoffs without those plays so it wasn’t Kliff alone by a long shot. He needed JD magic. Anyone who is watching last year knows Kliff needed JD magic last year just to make the playoffs.

So this year my hope was never in Kliff. It was in AP giving a stronger OL and then having even better JD magic. This kind of hope is not sustainable especially against well coached defenses. It has nothing to do with injuries. Our offense looked really bad against the Packers even before JD got injured. I wanted to establish ourselves as a tier-2 team at minimum this year, a team that makes the playoffs annually. To do that, that GB game has to look different.

My number one complaint is simple. Kliff has too many “what?” moments in a game for me (game flow). I also don’t like that in multiple pressers (and they were talking about season long playcalling, not individual games) Kliff and DQ have said opposite things (has to do with game flow, but DQ clearly has an issue there too).

Asked about dedication to the run, DQ said it is important to run even when they only get 1-2 ypc. He said it for like 5 minutes. He talked about how it affects the D, how this, how that. It wasn’t a small detail. It clearly rankled him and was exactly like how Ron talked about the run game while here. It bugged him too, and he also didn’t want to step on coordinators’ toes.

Kliff was asked the same and he said the RBs have high efficiency and he likes that. High efficiency is high ypc. It is almost the exact opposite answer.

That is not a good thing. Whatever opinions we may have, if that discord continues (and it has for over 12 months of pressers I think, because it came up last year and this year at least 1-2 times) that won’t be good.

Kliff is a tough eval this year as you all have pointed out. While I may feel he has still been bad enough, it is definitely understandable to bring him back. I do think the HC has more insight than we do though. So if it doesn’t work out next year HC needs to have a serious “why didn’t you fix this last year” because his chair is not out chair.

Personally I believe DQ gets in Kliff’s ear- we know because Kliff said so last year. When we are winning I think that is probably more pleasant than this year. I imagine Kliff didn’t have much fun this year and we will have to see what he decides this offseason.

Slowik had a great S1 with the Texans. A bad S2 with them. He got fired then. Most pundits expected him to be retained. They were on the same staff in SF so I assume they knew each other. Was that Demeco seeing things from his seat and deciding change needed to be made?

We will have to see how it all shakes out. I see a lot of differing opinions that to me aren’t unfounded so not sure how anyone can paint either side as crazy.

 

[Chris]

I am on board with you and Chris on staffers. I however do not agree with Whitt only for reasons already given. There are many jobs where if you do not perform well, regardless of situations where you do not keep your job. Whitt was willing to take a higher position which comes with increased responsibility and pay. He did a poor job and accountability is sometimes required.

I fully agree on JWJr. He was given enough time and rope imo to prove he was up to the responsibilities and he didn’t meet the mark.

What I push back on is the often repeated ‘fact’ that he was only given the chance because he was ‘buddies’ with Quinn. That doesn’t pass the smell test for me. DQ obviously had a good working relationship with him previously and thought he was ready to take a step up in level. Turns out he was wrong and has taken moves to rectify that. I don’t think his hire was a nepotism one unless nearly every hire in the league is considered that. Wanting to work with someone who you understand, have experience and a comfort-level with, and have confidence in is not nepotism…it is human nature.

DQ was wrong about Whitt’s DC abilities. It happens, but I seriously doubt that he knowingly hired a lacking Whitt and therefore put his own success at risk because he was his ‘buddy’. Everybody on earth has, at some point, made what they thought was a good decision and been wrong. This is not the first time, it won’t be the last.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I’m also concerned by the idea that Kliff can win with starting caliber talent and not without. That is true but no NFL team stays fully healthy. I think there is a long list of decisions I don’t understand from my chair. When we were hit by injuries, I expected smarter pivots. He pivoted a bit, he introduced a heavy package for a few games and then went away from it later. I thought he may lean more into less injured position groups (more Sinnott in creative ways? More RB runs?) but he didn’t seem to.

Again, maybe DQ understands the thought process. We will see what happens next year. I think Ryans reviewed year 1 and 2 and concluded Slowik was not growing the right way, the way he (Ryans) wanted.

One thing is certain, a better defense would make the whole team better regardless.

 

[DWinzit]

I fully agree on JWJr. He was given enough time and rope imo to prove he was up to the responsibilities and he didn’t meet the mark.

What I push back on is the often repeated ‘fact’ that he was only given the chance because he was ‘buddies’ with Quinn. That doesn’t pass the smell test for me. DQ obviously had a good working relationship with him previously and thought he was ready to take a step up in level. Turns out he was wrong and has taken moves to rectify that. I don’t think his hire was a nepotism one unless nearly every hire in the league is considered that. Wanting to work with someone who you understand, have experience and a comfort-level with, and have confidence is not nepotism…it is human nature.

DQ was wrong about Whitt’s DC abilities. It happens, but I seriously doubt that he knowingly hired a lacking Whitt and therefore put his own success at risk because he was his ‘buddy’. Everybody on earth has, at some point, made what they thought was a good decision and been wrong. This is not the first time, it won’t be the last.

The smell test with Whitt is as you stated, Whitt was (more than likely lol) hired because DQ had an understanding, experience, confidence and comfort level with. Yup that's common in the NFL and there is nothing wrong with that. Whether all of that means the situation is nepotism, friendship, trust or combo, they assist in most hires and how were they not part of DQ's decision? Regardless, we all agree, he did not do a great job

 

[Die Hard]

I think the concern on last year is still that high scramble rates in critical situations (JD being JD, on third and fourth downs) saved our bacon in critical games. We don’t make the playoffs without those plays so it wasn’t Kliff alone by a long shot. He needed JD magic. Anyone who is watching last year knows Kliff needed JD magic last year just to make the playoffs.

So this year my hope was never in Kliff. It was in AP giving a stronger OL and then having even better JD magic. This kind of hope is not sustainable especially against well coached defenses. It has nothing to do with injuries. Our offense looked really bad against the Packers even before JD got injured. I wanted to establish ourselves as a tier-2 team at minimum this year, a team that makes the playoffs annually. To do that, that GB game has to look different.

My number one complaint is simple. Kliff has too many “what?” moments in a game for me (game flow). I also don’t like that in multiple pressers (and they were talking about season long playcalling, not individual games) Kliff and DQ have said opposite things (has to do with game flow, but DQ clearly has an issue there too).

Asked about dedication to the run, DQ said it is important to run even when they only get 1-2 ypc. He said it for like 5 minutes. He talked about how it affects the D, how this, how that. It wasn’t a small detail. It clearly rankled him and was exactly like how Ron talked about the run game while here. It bugged him too, and he also didn’t want to step on coordinators’ toes.

Kliff was asked the same and he said the RBs have high efficiency and he likes that. High efficiency is high ypc. It is almost the exact opposite answer.

That is not a good thing. Whatever opinions we may have, if that discord continues (and it has for over 12 months of pressers I think, because it came up last year and this year at least 1-2 times) that won’t be good.

Kliff is a tough eval this year as you all have pointed out. While I may feel he has still been bad enough, it is definitely understandable to bring him back. I do think the HC has more insight than we do though. So if it doesn’t work out next year HC needs to have a serious “why didn’t you fix this last year” because his chair is not out chair.

Personally I believe DQ gets in Kliff’s ear- we know because Kliff said so last year. When we are winning I think that is probably more pleasant than this year. I imagine Kliff didn’t have much fun this year and we will have to see what he decides this offseason.

Slowik had a great S1 with the Texans. A bad S2 with them. He got fired then. Most pundits expected him to be retained. They were on the same staff in SF so I assume they knew each other. Was that Demeco seeing things from his seat and deciding change needed to be made?

We will have to see how it all shakes out. I see a lot of differing opinions that to me aren’t unfounded so not sure how anyone can paint either side as crazy.

Just to your first point… because it hasn’t been mentioned enough.

Quinn was a considered a gunslinger and aggressive last year because he would go for it often on 4th downs.

What that implies is a failure to make move the chains without an extra down. And how often was the playcall to use Jayden’s speed to the outside as a cheat code.

I mean that’s youth football 101… you’re not a football savant.

I’ve made no bones about since Rivera was fired.

The coaches I desired IN particular order were Ben Johnson, Dave Canales, Mike McDonald (the only DC candidate). And I thought Liam Cohen was a great choice last year for the Jags.

The pedigree was there for all those guys. I hate the Quinn hire. Like the guy though. But he’s not the right guy for this team… and we’re wasting Jayden’s rookie contract.

 

[Riggo44]

Quinn was a considered a gunslinger and aggressive last year because he would go for it often on 4th downs.

What that implies is a failure to make move the chains without an extra down.

We were 6th in the NFL last year in third down conversions at 45.6%.

 

[Die Hard]

We were 6th in the NFL last year in third down conversions at 45.6%.

Link source?

And since you have a source… tell me how many were converted by Daniels runs.

Daniels was our leading rusher last year right?

And how many other team’s leading rusher was their QB?

The Commanders offense is consistently cited as being among the top red zone offenses in the league.

It’s a stat. Without context.

I don’t read anyone pining for the team to keep Mariota under center permanently. No one is mistaking this offense as an upper-echelon unit.

 

[Riggo44]

Link source?

And since you have a source… tell me how many were converted by Daniels runs.

Daniels was our leading rusher last year right?

And how many other team’s leading rusher was their QB?

We were 4th in total 3rd conversions with 99: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-2024-most-third-down-conversion

And 6th in conversion rate: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

And yes, Jayden was the leading rusher. However, Brian Robinson lead the team in attempts with 187 to Jayden's 148. As for how many conversions Daniels had with his legs, he had 55 rushing 1st downs, Robinson was 2nd with 47. Though, later on in the season, as Robinson became less effective, his attempts increased.

No idea how many of those were on 3rd down, but it seems the rushing numbers aren't as disparate as you would have people believe.