Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[micks113]

There's only two things I don't like about Kirk. He overthrows the long ball way too much. And his execution in the red zone, inside the 10 that is, is average. But like I said, the arrival of the running game will change both and we would see a whole different result. I have a really good feeling about this possibility.

 

[Boone]

For us to be a contender, two things MUST have happened this offseason. First, our remake of the defense is real and we become top 10 on D. Second, we really discover a competent running game. I think we have set ourselves up for both. But we have to WAIT and see.

Boone already hit the nail on the head as for the impediment to these prerequisites. Kirk's contract may kill our chance for the rest of the team to arrive as competent. How do we continue to build if allocating so much to the QB?

I stick with the franchise tag, that is pretty much the same as Carr for one year. But when I see that list above, and add Kirk's name, I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling. That list of QB's is a reflection of the front office incompetence to identify and draft QB's with huge potential and upside. We are horrible at it. Kirk is one of the long list. He may prove us wrong this time, but keep the fingers crossed. I am merely moving on to another avenue of selecting a QB and this is one that relys on pure luck. Because we've been so bad at it. I don't agree Boone that the past is a result of having tried with luck to fill that need. No....we have simply been incompetent at it.

I know the team would never look at it like this. Its just me and I'm tired of the losing mindset from the front office. They perpetuate the incompetence.

And Trent Dilfer, he was good enough, as was Brad Johnson, as was Rex Grossman as was McNabb, and potentially Trent Green and Hostetler. They were good enough to win, if only we had a playoff team surrounding them. Let's get this team built to compete on both sides of the ball, and not get desperate spending all the money for one unproven guy. My hopes are real high for this team, but my expectations are somewhat low.

I agree and can hear you on a lot of this. But Dilfer was an anomaly. He just proves it's POSSIBLE to win big with a marginal QB. But that doesn't negate the proven experience that 99/100, you aren't going to win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB. There are a ton of problems when you look at that long list of Redskins QBs ... the QBs who could play were aging vets who'd fallen way off...and then there are lots of 'hope chest' QBs that never were going to live up to the prayers they'd develop (Patrick Ramsey is a perfect example - only the Redskins could've convinced themselves he was going to become a great or even good starter - Joe Gibbs figured out that was a mirage within about 15 minutes of arriving).

I think what Henry and I are saying is - Cousins is the best QB and certainly the closest thing to a franchise QB we've had in a long, long time. I keep hearing folks say he can't 'carry the team' but the reality is, he IS the reason we've been competitive the past several years. If that's not carrying the team, I don't know what is. And if the Redskins don't find a way to retain him, I think we're going to find ourselves wandering in the NFL desert again, wondering how the hell we got there again and where the next drink of water is going to come from.

 

[micks113]

One other thing we are missing is that Gruden will be calling the plays. We'll be able to see by the plays called, how those two get along. I don't think I've seen yet where Jay is prone to sticking with something that's not working. We moved on from Robert quickly and at the end of last year I think Jay was running out of patience as I saw it. I hope they both say the same things this camp and are on the same page. Both must leave any animosity at home. There's a lot on Jays shoulders, but we know he will be here the next year, unlike McClu, while Kirk will go where the biggest carrot is.

 

[Chris]

I have so many thoughts about the situation that, unfortunately, are mostly worthless and only speculative due to my lack of real knowledge about the specifics of the negotiations.

1. In hindsight, the team should have wrapped this up prior to last season by making a legitimate offer instead of trying to low-ball. That said- I was openly in favor of the route they chose at the time, to give it another year to see if he was indeed worth it.

2. The player has 90% of the leverage. Counting last year, this year, and next year (if the transition tag is used), he will have pocketed 72.59m in guaranteed money. That's why the Derek Carr deal doesn't really correlate very much. The only leverage the team currently holds is protection against a serious season or career ending injury to the player. If the player is willing to roll those dice then there is no other reason for him to take anything less then a precedent setting deal.


3. Consistent media reports of the player having his feelings hurt concern me, on several levels. It appears that the team has recently begun a campaign to openly show some love, but, beware a woman's scorn.

4. Casserly saying that there is no way he sees a LTD getting done considering the players leverage is also concerning. Though he most likely knows no more than any of us do, he has completed contract negotiations in the league unlike any of us.

 

[Boone]

I really believe that it's your 3rd point that will truly tell the tale. I don't believe it's all about the money. If it's about the money, that's one of the few things that Dan Snyder has demonstrated over the years he can manage well. They can and will find a way to make the money work if that's all this is about. On the other hand, if there significant hurt feelings on Cousins part and he doesn't want to be here long-term, no amount of money is likely to change that. I struggle to believe that's the case, since it's the Redskins who have gave Cousins his opportunity and put him in the position to demand a high $$ long-term NFL deal. Not sure I believe he doesn't know that and appreciate it at some level. I guess we'll know soon where he and the team really are.

 

[Chris]

I agree for the most part. There is almost no saying in business more true than 'deadlines spur action'. So there is really no reason why any deal prior to July 17th should be expected. At this point, both sides might as well let the calendar roll on.

But, if the speed bump is not money (and Snyder can manage the money part well) then that only leaves emotion. The absolute worst case for the team is that the player gets franchise tagged after the 2018 season and the team can match any offer to keep him.

The worst case for the player is that he loses his ability to play the game. In the NFL only the guaranteed money and the signing bonus matters. Everything else in the numbers is window dressing.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Didn't 5 of these guys go to the superbowl?

he was good enough, as was Brad Johnson, as was Rex Grossman as was McNabb, and potentially Trent Green and Hostetler.

Actually all those QB's prove the original point, anyway.

The QB's that won SB's before they got here, were washed up by the time they got here, thus proving the Skins' inability over the last 2 decades-plus to find decent QB play.
And the QB's the won SB's after they got/left here, proves that our office doesn't know when to hang onto talent, and probably should have stuck with them, the same way we should stick with Kirk, and not let him slip away, which was the other original point.

Bottom line is, none of those QB's won a SB while they were here, so their achievment is irrelevant to the topic at hand. The point is, there's a reason why the didn't win it here. And it's because of the shenanigans that went on for decades, and to a degree, is still going on. And if it doesn't stop now, it will be a another long futile period.

So the problem has been both locating AND retaining talent.

 

[Henry]

And the QB's the won SB's after they got/left here, proves that our office doesn't know when to hang onto talent, and probably should have stuck with them, the same way we should stick with Kirk, and not let him slip away, which was the other original point.

To put a fine point on it, on that list there are exactly two quarterbacks, outside of Kirk Cousins, that won the division with the Redskins and went to a pro-bowl with the Redskins, which are coincidentally the only other times in the Dan Snyder Era that the Redskins have won the division. In both cases, the team immediately proceeded to alienate the QB in question, and both QBs were off the team within two seasons of winning the division. And it appears we are doing it again.

We are doing it. Again.

For the third time in the 18 years Snyder has owned the team we actually won our division, for the third time it took a pro-bowl calibre QB to win it, and for the third time we are finding some reason to blame the QB for ... I don't even know. Not being awesome enough.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like try something different for a change. I don't want another two decades like this.

 

[Ax]

I get the talent piece - that's a subjective opinion and you have a right to value his talent however you see fit. On the rest of it - as long as it doesn't cripple the team's ability to keep talent at other positions, I don't really understand why it matters how big a deal he gets, nor why we should begrudge him getting the biggest payday he can while he can?

Well, I lump him into the "Most Grossly Overpaid Human Beings" bunch. (Athletes, Actors, etc...) Yeah, I know it's the way of the world. But I don't have to like it. If he doesn't play a down for us this season, he will still get paid $24mil. His agent wants even more, apparently. Makes him a greedy ****. And #8 too.

Brady is a bad example - he probably makes quadruple in endorsements what he does in salary annually. And to get to that point, he had to be given the chance to be a star.

If #8 would have beaten the Giants, at home, with everything on the line, against an overrated division rival, he'd already be under a new LTD. So, that was #8's "chance to be a star". He failed, miserably. Had he won, his endorsement deals would already be increasing. If he'd open his eyes and look beyond todays dollar signs, he'd see how he could become our next "Sonny Jurgensen", with a guaranteed hometown discount, endorsements, and undying fan worship, for the rest of his life. Again, he doesn't have to play another down of football for the rest of his life. He is already a multimillionaire. Thanks to the Redskins. As far as I'm concerned, he owes the team more than they own him.

Cousins is still pretty early on in his career, doesn't have that luxury, and wants to get paid. It's not a personal thing - it's just common sense.

I repeat, he doesn't have to play another down of football for the rest of his life. He is already a multimillionaire.

On your last comment - you're just speculating. We KNOW we can win with Kirk.

To quote Tonto, "What's this we shit, white man?"
I KNOW he lost, at home, with everything on the line, to the Giants.

We don't know that the same is true with Colt McCoy.

And I KNOW, Colt could have done the same. For$15mil less.
And he MIGHT have thrown a game winning TD, instead of a season ending INT.
Which we KNOW #8 did.

Nome sayin?

 

[Henry]

Yes, we can be a crappy team for no money at all. Maybe they give out trophies for "Best Market Value". We can put ours right next to the three Lombardis we won 25 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fear The Spear]

Yes, we can be a crappy team for no money at all. Maybe they give out trophies for "Best Market Value".

Hmm, coincidence....or plageurism ?

I'll take an over-paid team that succeeds, over an average or below-average team where we got great "value" on each of our players.
There are no NFL standings for teams that got the best value for each of their player contracts.

 

[Ax]

I don't buy into us being crappy and wandering the desert unless we sign average QB to a long term mega deal.

The current stability with a head coach, and the same offensive system has done as much for us the last several as average boy has.

 

[Elephant]

I don't buy into us being crappy and wandering the desert unless we sign average QB to a long term mega deal.

The current stability with a head coach, and the same offensive system has done as much for us the last several as average boy has.

We agree on much, but I am going to have to disagree here. I still have my questions about Cousins in the "big game"...but he has played a pivotal role in the "success" of this team the past couple years.

 

[Fear The Spear]

If #8 would have beaten the Giants, at home

It's easy to focus on that one game and how much it meant, but if it wasn't for Cousins' play, we would not have even been in that position to begin with, at that last game. It's all because of Cousins that we even had a chance to get in the playoffs, who practically single-handedly won games during the course of last year, playing beyond anyone's expectations to pull wins out of his ass. Yes, he didn't win in the clutch. But he's proven by his progression, that he can overcome flaws one by one, no matter the pressure, so clutch games seems like the natural next step in the graph which is charting his progression.

 

[JohnssBass]

Yes, Cousins went to a Pro Bowl. As an alternate. He took Matt Ryan's spot who passed to play in the Super Bowl. I think Ryan got the better end of the deal.
Yes, Cousins won a division. And lost the only playoff game he started.
RG III accomplished all those same things. Although he didn't play in the Pro Bowl due to injuries, he was selected.

I'm really not surprised that the FO would be hesitant handing out big guarantee's to Kirk. Whether it's the right thing to do, another matter but I get the organization's reluctance.

I've read some of Casserly's articles - he's not a fan of Cousins. Doesn't mean he lacks valid insight but I don't think he's completely unbiased although he does have the business background. The numbers he's tossing out (link below) won't get Cousins signed, too low and Kirk probably not interested in a 4 year deal. If that's the neighborhood of what Washington is offering then Casserly will likely be correct and there'll be no long term deal.

link: http://was.247sports.com/Bolt/Former-Redskins-GM-doubts-Cousins-Redskins-agree-extension-53301307

 

[ntotoro]

Our front office is turning a what seems to be a cut & dry decision into a sloth on Ambien. If both parties want to proceed then send the agents, Schaffer, the Bruce, ret Gen Mattis,& who the **** ever else to the park this Friday.

Lock all their asses in one of the board rooms and seal it up until there's a direction, one way or another. Vatican style negotiations until a yay or nay transpires.

So leave them all in a room until white smoke comes from Hail & Hog at One Loudoun... ?

Nick

 

[Elephant]

I'm sorry, but 69 million guaranteed is enough. That should have Cousins signed a long time ago...it's guaranteed!

 

[Boone]

There's only two things I don't like about Kirk. He overthrows the long ball way too much. And his execution in the red zone, inside the 10 that is, is average. But like I said, the arrival of the running game will change both and we would see a whole different result. I have a really good feeling about this possibility.

He definitely makes too many overthrows. You can see, especially early on in games, that he is too hyped up. I'd like to see him calm that down as it's been a consistent thing with him. I think he needs to be more willing to take off and run when it's there too - he did that quite a bit his first year as starter but last season he seemed extremely reluctant to take off, even when it was there for the taking. Not sure why. The redzone efficiency is a lot more about poor playcalling than about Kirk imho.

 

[JohnssBass]

I'm sorry, but 69 million guaranteed is enough. That should have Cousins signed a long time ago...it's guaranteed!

I agree. But from Kirk's side, I think they'll want more. And there's various forms of guarantee's. Fully guaranteed is due @ signing but future guarantees may not become guaranteed till a future season. So the types of guarantee may be a bigger part of the issue then the actual $$$

Carr's deal - Oakland could walk away in 2 years & only(?) be out a bit over $40M because the other $30M in guaranteed salary only kicks in the years after.

I think Cousins & company definetly wants more on the fully guaranteed side. I believe a contract similar Carr's where Kirk gets fair compensation now in fully guaranteed money and has to earn the majority later should be acceptable. Don't know if it is though.

 

[Ax]

We agree on much, but I am going to have to disagree here. I still have my questions about Cousins in the "big game"...but he has played a pivotal role in the "success" of this team the past couple years.

Sure he has been pivotal. But I'm believing it's the system, as much as #8. It's why I think we'd be ok if Colt had to take over.