Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[Boone]

Sorry, but apparently you missed the point entirely, which why I added 'or a different QB'.
The point is - With an improved run game and defense is Kirk the only QB that would have led to the Redskins having more wins.
The answer is 'no' he isn't the only one.

It happens Although I quoted and replied to your post, I was responding to a number of guys who throw Colt out there as a viable or equally capable alternative. He's not. And to be fair, 'or a different QB' hardly fills in the gap after you let the best QB in 20 years depart to become a franchise player for another team. You make my point John in that it's very difficult to find a long term starter no matter how reasonable the efforts, how many high draft picks you have, etc.. it just is. We've got one, we need to keep him even if the price is much more than we 'want' to pay. I don't have an opinion on the rest of your post, other than to say it's always easy to conjecture on what 'would have happened' with some hypothetical but the truth is we don't know that to be the case and can't know.

My post, re-reading it, sounds pretty aggressive, so sorry for that!

 

[Boone]

Well, for the past 20 years, what QB has given us the kind of production Kirk's given us?

We've had better running games and defenses at times but never got this kind of performance out of a QB.

It's taken 20 years to find a guy like Kirk but folks are now thinking we can let him go and immediately find someone better.

Makes no sense in the NFL world. Everyone here should know,without any doubt, how hard it is to find find a good QB.

IMO, we haven't had a franchise QB since #9 hung 'em up in 74. We have a chance to have that spot secure for the next 5-7 years and folks are ready to let him go.

Incredible........

DP here is saying it much better than I have. This!

 

[Elephant]

DP here is saying it much better than I have. This!

Joey T was certainly a franchise guy, even if he wasn't as good as Sonny. With that said, I am almost a a point where I wished they just blow it all up and let McGloughan rebuild from scratch...meaning coaches, sign and trade for Kirk, and anyone else tied to the failure of this organization from Scot's position down.

I do not like this piecemeal crap that we're seeing right now. I would be tempted to give the reigns to Kyle Shanahan.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Two back to back winning seasons for the first time in 20 some years, with a still rebuilding team mind you, with our salary cap in the best shape it's been in since Dan bought the team, and since we're not in the SuperBowl in year 2 of McCloughan...let's blow all that up and start from scratch.

I believe some fans just enjoy going 4-12/5-11 because they enjoy high draft picks and the draft process instead of actual on field improvement.

What happens if through draft and free agency,the defense gets a major influx of talent? You guys still want to jettison Cousins and go back into the Wilderness and search for the long rebuild road?

I'm tired of the briar patch. I'd like to walk out into the open for awhile......

 

[Elephant]

Two back to back winning seasons for the first time in 20 some years, with a still rebuilding team mind you, with our salary cap in the best shape it's been in since Dan bought the team, and since we're not in the SuperBowl in year 2 of McCloughan...let's blow all that up and start from scratch.
.

This is disingenuous. It's not about getting to the Super Bowl with McGloughan in only 2 years...in fact it has nothing to do with McGloughan. It's a bout a regression from the previous season, it's about a HC who does not seem to have what it takes to be anything better than a very good offensive coordinator (too many questionable aspects of his ability as a head coach), a QB who simply freezes under pressure and it's a bout an organization that seems built to make money, not win on the field.

I do not feel confident as we go into this off-season that with Gruden at the helm and Kirk under center we can be much better than we've seen from this crew unless we go from having one of the worst defenses in the league to a top 10 defense and even then, I am concerned that Gruden will call a timeout at the wrong moment in a critical game and Kirk's confidence will disappear when our season is on the line. the way this team went down against the Giants says a lot about coaching and leadership...that was a moment to turn the corner for all and they failed.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Let's go with your plan El.

Who would you want as coach and who would your QB be?

How much would we win in 2017?

 

[Elephant]

Let's go with your plan El.

Who would you want as coach and who would your QB be?

How much would we win in 2017?

I don't know, but the new coaching staff does nothing to strike confidence going that direction. I like Greg Manusky, but he hasn't done anything as a DC to make me think he will make our defense as good as they need to be, and Matt Cavanaugh does nothing to make me think our offense will be get better. It boils down to my lack of respect for Gruden after this season. I had turned toward believeing Gruden could get it done after last season, but he took some major steps back in my eye as this season wore on.

All I see is a rebuild next year or the year after if Gruden can keep us mediocre again next season, flirting with the playoffs.

 

[stevenaa]

Huh. Great QB's need help from their team after all. Who'd have thunk it?

 

[Bulldog]

Those concerns some of you voice that 'well, we haven't had a capable quarterback in 20 years so we have to resign Cousins' should not bother a GM with a track record of successful personnel decisions who comes in as Scot has and was not a part of that negative history.

These GMs don't look at the equation that way. Scot sees the Cowboys draft Prescott, the Seahawks draft Wilson, the Saints reclaim Brees' career in free agency, and believes a good front office can find a player at a given position who can play and be successful.

The issue before McCloughan is whether Kirk Cousins is a guy who is worth $24M. Whether he is worth extending for yet another season under the franchise tag, in all likelihood prepping then to lose him in free agency in 2018 when the franchise tag then goes to $31M.

Is he worth a long-term deal instead where we are locked in for at least 3-4-5 years?

If Scot makes the decision Cousins is not worth elite money, his next thought is identifying a candidate in college, free agency, etc. that the team can look toward bringing in here over time to take the reigns at qb.

He is not going to be haunted by the ghosts of bad Vinny Cerrato or Charley Casserly decisions made in the past.

His past is in San Francisco and Seattle, not Washington.

The same was the case with Bobby Beathard. His history was in KC and Miami in the AFC where those teams were in Super Bowls.

Beathard drafted Jay Schroeder to back up Joe Theismann and when Theismann was hurt in 1985, Schroeder had a very good run in 1985 taking the team to 10-6 and in 1986, taking the team to 12-4 and the NFC championship game.

When he became erratic in 1987 and was finally benched before the team won the Super Bowl behind 34 year old Doug Williams, Beathard went on to trade him to the Raiders and the Redskins went with former #6 round pick Mark Rypien at quarterback.

The team moved on, won 10 games in 1989 and 1990, 14 in 1991 on the way to Super Bowl #3.

There was very little hand wringing or 'what might have been' bickering going on internally or externally with fans.

Good organizations move on and remain successful.

 

[Elephant]

Huh. Great QB's need help from their team after all. Who'd have thunk it?

But he has failed on too many opportunities in high profile games...his failures, not the team's.

 

[Boone]

Those concerns some of you voice that 'well, we haven't had a capable quarterback in 20 years so we have to resign Cousins' should not bother a GM with a track record of successful personnel decisions who comes in as Scot has and was not a part of that negative history.

These GMs don't look at the equation that way. Scot sees the Cowboys draft Prescott, the Seahawks draft Wilson, the Saints reclaim Brees' career in free agency, and believes a good front office can find a player at a given position who can play and be successful.

The issue before McCloughan is whether Kirk Cousins is a guy who is worth $24M. Whether he is worth extending for yet another season under the franchise tag, in all likelihood prepping then to lose him in free agency in 2018 when the franchise tag then goes to $31M.

Is he worth a long-term deal instead where we are locked in for at least 3-4-5 years?

If Scot makes the decision Cousins is not worth elite money, his next thought is identifying a candidate in college, free agency, etc. that the team can look toward bringing in here over time to take the reigns at qb.

He is not going to be haunted by the ghosts of bad Vinny Cerrato or Charley Casserly decisions made in the past.

His past is in San Francisco and Seattle, not Washington.

The same was the case with Bobby Beathard. His history was in KC and Miami in the AFC where those teams were in Super Bowls.

Beathard drafted Jay Schroeder to back up Joe Theismann and when Theismann was hurt in 1985, Schroeder had a very good run in 1985 taking the team to 10-6 and in 1986, taking the team to 12-4 and the NFC championship game.

When he became erratic in 1987 and was finally benched before the team won the Super Bowl behind 34 year old Doug Williams, Beathard went on to trade him to the Raiders and the Redskins went with former #6 round pick Mark Rypien at quarterback.

The team moved on, won 10 games in 1989 and 1990, 14 in 1991 on the way to Super Bowl #3.

There was very little hand wringing or 'what might have been' bickering going on internally or externally with fans.

Good organizations move on and remain successful.

Maybe. But McCloughan wasn't just hired. He was brought here (when no other franchise would take a chance on him btw, after being fired twice for unprofessional behavior) to build something. We're going into his 3rd year and while I agree that he likely makes decisions with the long view in mind, if Cousins weren't the guy we'd have been wise to try and find the next guy before now. I'm guessing few think Nate Sudfeld fits that description. Point is, part of building is finding the pieces. I think McCloughan has a fine eye for talent, but he's not a God - and hitting on a QB in the draft is one of the hardest things any GM must do. It's made exponentially more difficult when you have a reasonably competitive team (we have, for 2 seasons now, despite fan hysteria to the contrary) and aren't going to get anywhere near a top 5 draft pick. You've found a very talented QB. Why in God's name would any of you pine to start that effing search all over again? I get your point regarding McCloughan not being saddled with our fan baggage and probably having a clearer vision as a result. But I would give him some fan advice that might be something he should listen to. This owner lacks patience. He doesn't care about what a visionary you are. If there isn't tangible success in the next several years, McLovin will be packing his trash, Yoda he is, or not. Starting over at QB is a recipe for just that scenario. If you can sign Cousins without crippling the team, you do it.

 

[stevenaa]

But he has failed on too many opportunities in high profile games...his failures, not the team's.

I'd suggest that in two years time there haven't been "too many opportunities". Will he overcome that hump and become clutch in the "big one's", we don't know. But his improvement and development to date, suggests he can. It's a risk any team in the league would take.

 

[Elephant]

I'd suggest that in two years time there haven't been "too many opportunities". Will he overcome that hump and become clutch in the "big one's", we don't know. But his improvement and development to date, suggests he can. It's a risk any team in the league would take.

I am not as convinced as you are. I simply see another rebuild in the very near future from the QB to the coach. I hope I am wrong, but if I'm not we're looking at another lame duck season as we squeeze the last bit of juice out of Gruden we can get.

 

[Boone]

I hope I am wrong, but if I'm not we're looking at another lame duck season as we squeeze the last bit of juice out of Gruden we can get.

Ewwwww.

 

[Boone]

There go Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger...two QBs who just can't win the big one

 

[JohnssBass]

Whether this is a realistic scenario I don't know and it is not the point folks. The article is what it is and take it for what it's worth to you it is interesting to read a perspective from outside of here if you look at some comments at the end of the article.

link: http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/1/22/14350802/49ers-kyle-shanahan-kirk-cousins-rumors

 

[Knightingale]

Pretty clear at this point that the BGO crowd are falling into two camps. LOL

I'm resolutely in the Camp that wants continuity.

I feel like building a team is a little like 'Whack-A-Mole'

When you whack a mole you want it to stay down as long as you can and then move to the next mole.

Two years ago this team was faced with a multitude of grubby little earth digging animals all waving their grubby paws at us. Problem is you only have one hammer, you can't knock them all down at once. So we started knocking them down one by one.

I view QB as being one of the Moles we smacked underground and the longer it stays there the more we can focus on other issues like the Defense, or the run game.

I don't want that mole popping up again just yet.

I recognize that this organisation is a far cry from what it was just two years ago. It's better run. It's not a circus. It's got Cap flexibility and money to spend. It's being run - finally - like a professional football team.

But it still has a long way to go to be the organization it was in the 90's, but to travel the road to get there you have to take the first steps and I think we've done that.

I think peoples idea of growth/regression is different. Some of us just look at the fact we were a half game worse in record than we were last year and see that as regression.
Others see a team still growing but acknowledge that the landscape changed this year.

Realistically... we probably weren't a 9-6 team last year. The weakness of the NFC East flattered to deceive. This year I think our record was about right. But that is just my opinion.

What does frustrate me somewhat, as I think it also does with Boone and some others, is the fact that we don't exist in a bubble.

Kirk has played just 2 seasons as a starter, that's just 32 meaningful games. Plus 1 playoff game (not including him coming in for an injured RGIII in his rookie year).
How many big games has he realistically had exposure to? And how many of those has he had a defense to help him?
Yes he didn't play his best game in the season ender against the Giants... But did you watch Aaron Rodgers last night?

That game looked ALOT like the Redskins/Giants game, only the Falcons actually have an offense. Rodgers was off target, frustrated, threw an interception and had his teammates dropping passes and fumbling balls.

Anyone remember the epic Green Bay collapse against the Seahawks a couple of years ago in the NFC Conference finals? Up 19-7 with less than 5 mins to play and still lost it?

But because our view of Rodgers has 9 years of experience where he's won some big games, those wins tend to stick in the mind more. That he can do it. But even the best can't do it all the time, and he's had over 150 games to perfect that art.

I read an article on Kobe Bryant a while back somewhere, that said when a survey was taken a majority of people would pick Kobe to take a Game Winning shot. Most cited his accuracy, killer instinct etc. But the truth was that he actually had something like a 25% success rate on Game winning shots. His aura was an illusion.

We're looking at Kirk because he's our Redskins QB through a microscope. He hasn't had that many games to prove that he's a clutch performer in a crucial game, and he sure hasn't had a complete team to do it. Rodgers proved last night that even a transcendental talent can't carry a team with a bad defense to the Superbowl, and the Packers D wasn't anywhere near as bad as ours.

Truth be told, those games we lost down the stretch... all were VERY dangerous teams despite any records they may have had. The Panthers were one season removed from the Superbowl and one of the best records in NFL history. Did we really expect them to be a pushover regardless of their record? Same with Arizona. 13-3 a year earlier and a playoff win, despite their record they could be dangerous. And then there were the sleeping Giants. A team that quietly got better as the year went on on Defense. Every one of those games worried me at the time, the matchups looked horrendous for us.

And as for Gruden... he makes mistakes. All coaches do.
Did you see Garrett screw up that last possession in the Dallas/Green Bay game? Have you seen Andy Reid and his clock management skills?

There are no perfect QB's and no perfect coaches. Elite ones are generational talents. They come along once in a blue moon.
In Gruden and Kirk we have a Coach who's managed to pretty much turn this team around and deliver two winning seasons back to back and a QB who's putting up stats that put him int he top 5 QB's in the league.

Could we do better? yes probably. But how long will we be waiting for that generational talent to walk in the door.

I think our recent coaching search proved that while we may not be as toxic as we were a few years ago, we are going to struggle to bring in top flight talent. Honestly I think that has little to do with Gruden or Scotty, and everything to do with our track history as an organisation of dysfunction. The Redskins are a storied franchise that play in a market where success is expected despite decades of futility, the fan base is one of the toughest around to please, the media are savage here and if it's not team related it's the constant controversy of our nickname. We have a history of unstableness at coaching, a history of bad decisions and a history of owner meddling. And we're hugely lacking talent on one side of the ball.

What can we realistically offer? Money? A historic franchise? All the burgundy and gold merchandise they can carry? An Offense that is knocking on the door of elite status?

Perceptions will change but it'll take time. But not if we keep resetting back to square one every few years.

Just my two cents. I do get the other side of the argument though. It's just not the side I square with personally.

 

[Ax]

There go Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger...two QBs who just can't win the big one

Well, except that they already have.

But, I see what you did there.

 

[Ax]

Just my two cents.

Two cents?


TWO cents?


That was a dollar $2.98 if I ever saw a dollar $2.98.


I don't agree that it's just 2 camps, though. Not quite that simple.

 

[Knightingale]

Two cents?


TWO cents?


That was a dollar $2.98 if I ever saw a dollar $2.98.


I don't agree that it's just 2 camps, though. Not quite that simple.

Don't tell my boss but I'm REALLY BORED at work! LOL

And once I start rolling...

$2.98!!! I'm not sure my opinion is worth anywhere close to that.

And I'm broadly speaking in terms of two camps. I think I can see your campfire up on the hill from here.... nice tent.