Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

hmmmmm....the Jets fire their coach last season, after a miserable performance.....but somehow are more than respectable this season. but here? in good ole DC? why there appears to be a different standard!

"winning right now"? sorry DP: the correct formula is winning over the last 25 years. track records matter. observable FACTS matter: such as Gruden's pathetic record over the last two years and his obvious coaching flaws...including maturity and presence. we'll leave it to yet more years to decide whether he can be bested by the smarter coaches in the league when it comes to game time strategy and tactics.

I get the effort to use a blunt scalpel to bound the range of emotions.....but accountability is accountability whether it's a QB or a coach. the double standard isn't appealing and the option is open to all of us to recognize other's points-of-view - and reject them when there is obvious rationalizing. a kinder way of expressing the matter - there is no "golden rule" for determining effectiveness, success, potential. we're all free to adopt our own views on the matter. what I find amusing is the incessant concern by many on how others reflect on the Redskin experience, on field performance, quality of effort. why all the angst? why all the concern over whether an individual agrees or not? to me...that's more revealing of psychological needs that could stand some introspection and self-servicing before engaging in lecturing others on how they ought to respond to their experiences.

apologies for my own preening. but we all know what's going on here.

by way of example: some may feel Cousins has potential because they think he reads and decides quickly. so they post favorable thoughts. others may see statistics that suggest recurring weaknesses. so they post less favorable thoughts. either way - why should anyone allow that to affect their own disposition other than considering whether or not to modify their position/outlook? there is the abstraction of a "fanbase"...and there are real people who see things differently and come to different conclusions. why all the heat and discontent vis differences in opinion? what's the objective? to browbeat people? to exercise personal demons? to flex ego driven desires for recognition? to solicit approval? I don't get it. it's a dang football team. someone likes Gruden or dislikes Snyder? great! that's their burden to bear. not my or anyone else's problem. nope. I think all of this has very little to do with objective "analysis" and everything to do with the "feel' of the moment.

why should anyone get exercised over someone else's opinion?
 
tr1 said:
So, the thread now begs the question: When will we have a winning record? Next year? 2017?

It's the same question we've been asking for over a decade.

When we see bad teams instantly become contenders, it's only logical for us to ask, "Why not us?"

The excuses keep coming.
Click to expand...
Actually, the thread begs the specific question of how Kirk Cousins is developing as a QB. Why the team isn't winning more than it loses right now is related, yes, but unless one attributes wins and losses exclusively to the quarterback, is a much broader discussion.
 
fansince62 said:
hmmmmm....the Jets fire their coach last season, after a miserable performance.....but somehow are more than respectable this season. but here? in good ole DC? why there appears to be a different standard!

"winning right now"? sorry DP: the correct formula is winning over the last 25 years. track records matter. observable FACTS matter: such as Gruden's pathetic record over the last two years and his obvious coaching flaws...including maturity and presence. we'll leave it to yet more years to decide whether he can be bested by the smarter coaches in the league when it comes to game time strategy and tactics.

I get the effort to use a blunt scalpel to bound the range of emotions.....but accountability is accountability whether it's a QB or a coach. the double standard isn't appealing and the option is open to all of us to recognize other's points-of-view - and reject them when there is obvious rationalizing. a kinder way of expressing the matter - there is no "golden rule" for determining effectiveness, success, potential. we're all free to adopt our own views on the matter. what I find amusing is the incessant concern by many on how others reflect on the Redskin experience, on field performance, quality of effort. why all the angst? why all the concern over whether an individual agrees or not? to me...that's more revealing of psychological needs that could stand some introspection and self-servicing before engaging in lecturing others on how they ought to respond to their experiences.

apologies for my own preening. but we all know what's going on here.

by way of example: some may feel Cousins has potential because they think he reads and decides quickly. so they post favorable thoughts. others may see statistics that suggest recurring weaknesses. so they post less favorable thoughts. either way - why should anyone allow that to affect their own disposition other than considering whether or not to modify their position/outlook? there is the abstraction of a "fanbase"...and there are real people who see things differently and come to different conclusions. why all the heat and discontent vis differences in opinion? what's the objective? to browbeat people? to exercise personal demons? to flex ego driven desires for recognition? to solicit approval? I don't get it. it's a dang football team. someone likes Gruden or dislikes Snyder? great! that's their burden to bear. not my or anyone else's problem. nope. I think all of this has very little to do with objective "analysis" and everything to do with the "feel' of the moment.

why should anyone get exercised over someone else's opinion?
Click to expand...

So what your saying is that we shouldn't be discussing others opinions on the subject, just state our own opinion and be happy? Pretty boring if you ask me. Hey, here's an idea. Lets discus why everyone wants to discuss everyone else's opinion instead of discussing football. ;) :) Nope that won't do either. Lets state our opinions on why everyone has to discuss everyone else's opinion and how they react, but not actually have a discussion on why that is. ;) I think on a football message board, posters discussing each others opinions is actually rather normal. I also find it normal that passionate fans would engage in passionate, and sometimes heated discussions.

So, you think Kirk will develop into a franchise QB? :)
 
Elephant said:
And for most of us, all doubt has been exhausted.
Click to expand...

I never blame individual players for 1 play... or 1 game. Even when Cousins threw 4 INTs against the NYG, I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt. The problem for me comes when Robert is benched in 2013, Kirk Cousins has an enormous amount of support from just about everyone. It was his opportunity to look like a credible NFL quarterback and he failed. Then we have a new coach and new system. While Cousins had a few good moments against the Jaguars & Eagles, he node dives in the following games. This season, he has been erratic at best. I've seen enough. He's had the most games of the 3 quarterbacks in this system and now with this OL, and he's still lacking as an NFL starting QB.

The reason that I haven't exhausted all doubt with Robert is that we invested a ton in him... He had a great 2012 (better than any rookie QB in NFL history). His 2013 was a step back, but his offseason was stunted due to injury. He still had a few really good games in 2013 (Minnesota, SD & Chicago in the middle of the season were excellent). You started to think that Robert was recovering from the injury he suffered LESS THAN ONE YEAR PRIOR (everyone needs to remember this fact). Since then, Robert has basically played nearly complete games against:

Houston, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, San Fran, New York Giants, Philly, and Dallas...

I argue he played well enough in Minnesota (even though he threw crucial INT) & Philly... He wasn't the reason we lost meaningless game in Dallas. His Giants game had crucial fumble that killed momentum, but you can't really fault him there.

So we're really talking about Houston, Tampa Bay (worst performance), and San Fran...

Wouldn't anyone like to give the guy we invested a number of draft picks in a shot going against NFL teams behind a Bill Callahan coached OL and not one that includes Tyler Polumbus going against JJ Watt & Chris Chester going against Gerald McCoy & Justin Smith?

I'm not promising Robert will be good... I'm just saying that Kirk Cousins has pretty much proven he isn't going to take us anywhere this year... Heck, I could even see someone saying we should give McCoy a chance over Robert, but sticking with Cousins after more than 10 games in this system is kind of useless. I suppose Cousins will probably have 2 more games to prove me wrong here.
 
Except he's only started 4 more games outside the 10 in this system. He's inexperienced as a starter. Being a 4 year veteran, isn't the same as a 14 game starter. We're not going back to Robert under the current contract structure. There's no point in trying to gain some wins by playing McCoy. Kirk is the only logical starter on the roster for this season. Give him every chance to succeed. Move on comfortably if/when he doesn't. Allow the team some growth. Henry makes very valid points on the state of affairs in the NFL today regarding development of QB's. But we aren't in that situation right now. I haven't seen anyone suggest we roll with Kirk next season unless he leaves no doubt he's the future. He's not close to doing that right now. We draft a new QB at a position that dictates more immediate success, then we roll with it. But at this point, Kirk has the ball and will till the end of the season.
 
I agree, Kirk is in for the remainder of the year especially due to Griffin's contract situation. Obviously since they have not renegotiated Griffin's contract he is out of here as well. That leaves the job up to Kirk. But if he doesn't show major improvement by the end of the year he is most likely gone as well.
 
tr1 said:
So, the thread now begs the question: When will we have a winning record? Next year? 2017?

It's the same question we've been asking for over a decade.

When we see bad teams instantly become contenders, it's only logical for us to ask, "Why not us?"

The excuses keep coming.
Click to expand...

The answer is because we haven't drafted or acquired players well. In fact, we have done a poor job. Its not a "logical" answer....it is THE answer. You can't do epic shiiit with average players...thank you DeSean.

They are not excuses my friend. It is a reason. No need to look beyond the obvious.
 
stevenaa said:
So what your saying is that we shouldn't be discussing others opinions on the subject, just state our own opinion and be happy? Pretty boring if you ask me. Hey, here's an idea. Lets discus why everyone wants to discuss everyone else's opinion instead of discussing football. ;) :) Nope that won't do either. Lets state our opinions on why everyone has to discuss everyone else's opinion and how they react, but not actually have a discussion on why that is. ;) I think on a football message board, posters discussing each others opinions is actually rather normal. I also find it normal that passionate fans would engage in passionate, and sometimes heated discussions.

So, you think Kirk will develop into a franchise QB? :)
Click to expand...

not exactly. and I think you know what I am striking at. it's not a detached, analytic kinda conversation. with almost perfect predictability.....these exchanges are personalized.

I depart from you on the heated discussions part. heat, of course, is often a precursor to flames. Kirk is the second coming! Kirk is strictly back-up material! neither statement needs to track to "you have no idea what you are talking about....you're a hater......you wear rose colored glasses.....what do you know compared to the coaches.....you're strictly amateur hour.....etc...etc..."

I do believe I said consider others opinions and (implied) if credible modify you own opinion. it's all the other stuff that isn't needed.
 
Just having fun with you Al. I get you. But, unfortunately, all that "other stuff" is part and parcel with the human condition. Wanting to figure it out. Wanting to be right. It's what drives innovation and fortunately seems to be ingrained in us. Though some of us certainly take our rightness further than we really have any intellectual right too. :) Myself included. ;) But even more to your specific point, those of us who complain about the naysayers, however right they might be, do so because we love to come here and have fun with our fellow brethren and sisters, and sometimes the realists make it less fun. Right, wrong or otherwise. It's easy to say it should just be ignored, and no one has suggested it has to stop, but not so easy to get around it in practice when we are all guilty of jumping into a conversation to give our contrary view point. We are, after all, a microcosm of personalities.
 
stevenaa said:
Just having fun with you Al. I get you. But, unfortunately, all that "other stuff" is part and parcel with the human condition. Wanting to figure it out. Wanting to be right. It's what drives innovation and fortunately seems to be ingrained in us. Though some of us certainly take our rightness further than we really have any intellectual right too. :) Myself included. ;) But even more to your specific point, those of us who complain about the naysayers, however right they might be, do so because we love to come here and have fun with our fellow brethren and sisters, and sometimes the realists make it less fun. Right, wrong or otherwise. It's easy to say it should just be ignored, and no one has suggested it has to stop, but not so easy to get around it in practice when we are all guilty of jumping into a conversation to give our contrary view point. We are, after all, a microcosm of personalities.
Click to expand...

AA: like everything in life...one has to perform a cost/ben analysis!

here's the other side - there are some....like myself (if you will allow me the indiscretion)...who can respond in degrees approaching the nuclear option. there's no clear dividing line between fun and scorched Earth. cyber is a poor medium for communicating intent.

judging by the recurring interventions of mods over the years.....I believe there is credible evidence that this is not just a hypothetical. and, yup, I agree with you on human nature. then again, no matter how frustrated I am in traffic....I don't equip my car with heat seeking missiles!
 
Hey - it's always the 'other guy' who is a troll, obnoxious, overly aggressive (oh and horribly wrong!). That's what is in play here. There are a lot of great members here who can acknowledge an opposing opinion, disagree, but not be a prick about it. Unfortunately there are also many who can't. And those folks always have a very good excuse for why they are dragging the tone of the site down.

If every one of us took the time to re-read our replies a second time before submitting I believe we would better be able to recognize our own areas of need vs. what is easy to do - pointing out everyone else's opportunities for improvement. The tone of late is not what we have worked so hard to create. And even after 6+ years there are many who still don't get it. We aren't concerned with your opinion - ever - we are each free to believe or interpret however we like. But we're not free to reply or say things in a manner that's not friendly, respectful, and kind. That applies to everyone here - members, staff, and owners.

Those that can't color between the lines always want to make it about being muzzled, oppressed, or censored. That's utter bullshit. In my opinion and experience, if your 'take' and posts are not well received, there's a pretty high degree of probability that it's your style that needs working on, not those responding. And that's all I have to say about that :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ya know what? This is just stupid and I need a break obviously. I and others have been directly called out for stating our OPINIONS which some disagree with and don't like. There's been a ton of snark and outright a-hole posts that do nothing to further discourse and only turn things into a tit for tat schoolyard argument. I avoid them but occasionally like yesterday they get so stupid that I can't help but respond. It's happening from both sides of the aisle which makes it a self feeding process but I'm done being insulted for stating my opinion. This crap has gone on for years with Griffin but now that the shoe's on the other foot it's WAY out of bounds for anyone critical of Gruden, the team or Cousins. Throwing out I told ya so posts when the team is 2-3 (with a sched that looks like another 4-5 win season at best) and looks like complete dogcrap is almost comical. I'd also liek to throw out a bunch of thank yous for stating the obvious trying to enlighten us poor stupid rubes...it's a rebuild and the team has improved, instead of warm dogcrap it now has raised itself to the level of day old dog crap and doesn't stink quite as much until you get close enough to get a close look/whiff.

Meh

I don't need lectures about patience or the dynamics of how this current squad has been brought along and I don't need condescending posts about how I'm losing my fan card. Just because we have a GM who is actually doing his job right doesn't mean it's all candy and roses and time to celebrate. I've done that befre to no avail. Premature celebration...no thanks. Not when you have a HC who isn't going anywhere. Others disagree but I personally have seen enough to draw the conclusion that this guy will never be a good HC, he's a classic coordinator who is in over his head. You might disagree with that but that detail is enough for me to be justified in my grumpiness until he's gone. You want me to take solace in the fact that the team on paper is improving but I take no solace as long as the guy I think is in over his head is still running the show on the field. Out of respect I've refrained from crapping all over multiple threads with my negativity, but I can't state it AT ALL without catching flak. And it's almost galling (mostly amusing) to see the same people who wouldn't shut their yap about Griffin and his foibles preaching patience and Kumbaya sentiments in regard to Cousins now. Please...who are you kidding?

I think I'll hit that cyber bar for a few weeks. My non Redskins fan friends think my sentiments are totally justified and reasonable and don't give me shit for it every time I voice my disgust or skepticism inspired by 20 years of embarrassing failure. Plus as cranky as I am about the topic I'm not contributing to good discourse. So I'll take a little timeout.
 
Both sides do it
Both sides need to stop

Everyone needs to realize were all adults and speak to each other as such.

Speak as if the person was in front of you and you'd have to deal with your words face to face.

Let's just all be like a bunch of fonzies.
 
I've seen a lot of posts on the quality of discourse and how it's degraded,. I read your post CT and then went back and read the exchanges over the last couple of days. I have one main point. Everyone needs to calm the hell down worrying over the level of discourse. Is there some snark? Yes. Are there contrary opinions? All over the place. But give me a freaking break you guys. Grow a pair (Well, maybe not our lovely female companions. Stay the way you are. :0 ). Opinions are being attacked, but I don't see anyone getting particularly personal in their attacks. We all have our areas of passion within the microcosm of the team. Expecting guys to just let go of their feelings over how things transpired since Gruden took over is not realistic. It's ok if some have already made their decisions on him and Kirk. Many of us certainly made our decision on RG before he was benched, and made no bones about voicing that opinion. I'd love the place to have a more positive vibe, but what I expect is it to flow according to how the team does. While I'm of the opinion we're heading in the right direction, and chose to focus on that over the multitude of still troubling issues, the team basically sucks. We're 2-3 and I've seen nothing to expect any better results in the near term. So I say let the opinions ride. Be civil and don't get your panties in a wad if your opinion is shot down by many every time you state it. A little less effort in proving the other guy wrong would go a long way to solving what I think everyone perceives to be a frustration.
 
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Cousins threw the ball 43 times and didn't even get over 200 yards.

He threw 2 absolutely horrible interceptions. The first one could have easily been ran in for a touchdown if Revis doesn't slip. The second was double coverage where crowder wasn't even anywhere near able to make a play.

Pass after pass he threw behind them, over them, short, or just ugly. He had some decent throws but overall he is going backwards.
 
Yep. Easily his worst game of the year. Very unfortunate because if he's just played decently and not made any glaring mistakes, we had a chance to pull of a surprise road win here. I'd have been fine with them putting Colt in after the 2nd pick. In fact, Gruden probably should have pulled him at that point. The 2nd pick was indefensible. A starting NFL QB cannot decide to attempt that throw.
 
Guys there is no sense in getting worked up about cousins being cousins. I was glad to see breeland step up on defence, but we still need better play from our linebacking corps, the Dline looked ok, but in an upfield scheme you cant leave guys going up to the second level so easily. the offence is what it is,
 
I think it's fair to say that the future franchise QB of the Washington Redskins is not on the roster at the moment.

Cousins is what he is. At best he can manage a game. Whether he can grow out of the bad decisions with experience..... no idea.

Thing is that generally he seems to have time. We've only allowed 7 sacks in 5 games. That makes us joint 4th in the league. He has the time to make good decisions, just sometimes he makes stupid ones. Not all the interceptions are totally his fault, but there have been at least 3 or 4 that were really bad. This weeks Revis interception was a good example.

I do think he's not helped by our depleted receiving corps. Our TE's are... not great to put it mildly, and without Jackson as a deep threat the opponents know we're basically a dink and dunk pass game and prepare appropriately. And as our injured O-Line can't run block at the moment he'd getting no help from the running game. I think till we get our O-Line guys back and Jackson in the game again we're just a one dimensional offence that's pretty easy to prepare for and defend.

And Cousins ain't no Brady or Rodgers. He can't carry this kind of team.

Which brings me to a related side-note. As good as Jackson and Reed are should the Skins just cut their losses on them? They basically just can't stay on the field. Jackson is fragile and Reed is a concussion waiting to happen. As much as I love their skills I just don't see them as long term solutions at those positions.
 
Ryan Fitzpatrick completed 73% of his attempts yesterday. If only it was windy for both quarterbacks...
 
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