Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[Go Deep]

It tells me Gruden is a horrible qb teacher and lied to get the job.

WTH are you smoking? There is no magic wand to fix a guy who has played from the shotgun in a spread offense his entire life.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove this bs assumption that Gruden was hired to develop Robert, especially after Gruden put this nonsense to rest when asked about this. Just making up bs doesn't give credibility to your argument.

In all fairness to Griffin most coaches would say it takes 4 or 5 years to develop a guy as raw as Griffin. He's really only had 2 offseasons and 1 season full of games. The first year doesn't count because we didn't do a whole lot that was going to help him in the long run.

Then, this jerk off franchise fired Shanahan after 2 seasons with the guy because we didn't win one of the last two games in 2013 when they were meaningless. So please tell me how Gruden was going to survive long enough to develop this guy when the guy who got us to the Playoffs and put the best product on the field this franchise has seen in 20 plus years couldn't last 1 bad season trying to make Robert a NFL Qb?

You people are talking out of both ends with this crap!

 

[CounterTrey]

And look who was correct about Griffin...who now has seen enough of Cousins to know he will probably be nothing more than a good backup in this league, but is the best we currently have. I would say I hate saying I told you so...but the reality is...from the beginning I was right about Griffin. He would not last long in this league. Told you so!

LOL that would require him not having been used incorrectly and abused by the likes of Jay (throw em to the wolves with blocking from players who will never see the field on gameday) We still have no idea what Griffin could have been with proper protection and coaching but it didn't stop you from parroting the same silliness about work ethic and toughness from day one. You told me so...Hah! And I've been saying since day one that Cousins will never be anything more than a good backup who chokes in the clutch like he ALWAYS has...and I've been proven 100% right. So now what? Both QB's have been a disappointment and the team still blows.

And Go Deep, my sig says it all. The guy has failed miserably trying to do what he himself said only a fool would do. He's not getting a pass for that no matter how much of a hard time his critics are given.

 

[CounterTrey]

I am going to delete my own BGO membership. You guys are the most impatient, whiny fans in America. Man up. Things are moving in the right direction.


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Dude...seriously? I drove 500 miles to every freakin home game during the Spurrier era and half of the Zorn ones and remained faithful. 20 years of this crap before I finally lost my ability to be a blind homer for this team. The LAST thing I've been is impatient.

 

[Boone]

Gruden isn't responsible for your years of woe or mine. He just got here as did half or more of the players and other coaches.


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[CounterTrey]

...and he went in eyes wide open to our history and is getting payed a small fortune for it. Sorry, no free pass and I'm not impatient, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Elephant]

LOL that would require him not having been used incorrectly and abused by the likes of Jay (throw em to the wolves with blocking from players who will never see the field on gameday) We still have no idea what Griffin could have been with proper protection and coaching but it didn't stop you from parroting the same silliness about work ethic and toughness from day one. You told me so...Hah! And I've been saying since day one that Cousins will never be anything more than a good backup who chokes in the clutch like he ALWAYS has...and I've been proven 100% right. So now what? Both QB's have been a disappointment and the team still blows.

And Go Deep, my sig says it all. The guy has failed miserably trying to do what he himself said only a fool would do. He's not getting a pass for that no matter how much of a hard time his critics are given.

Now what? I agree on Kirk, never thought he would be the savior...so that's an easy call. Going against the overwhelming majority to suggest they were all wrong...mostly with you and a handful of others...is a tougher call. All in, season #2, 100% healthy was your claim. Yeah, that proved to be correct.

Truth is we don't suck. We are more than likely not a playoff team either. 6-7 wins is the likely outcome of this season showing improvements on both sides of the ball. That is what the season looks to be shaping up to be. That is does not suck...last year we sucked.

 

[Boone]

...and he went in eyes wide open to our history and is getting payed a small fortune for it. Sorry, no free pass and I'm not impatient, quite the opposite in fact.

I guess you're just whiny then


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[CounterTrey]

I'm sorry but sub. 500 sucks in my book. Mediocrity as the bar just means you're setting the bar low. And again we still don't know the full deal on Griffin and won't until someone who doesn't insist on the square peg/round hole approach picks him up next year for a song when we cut him.

And I don't know whether it's a reading comprehension or stubbornness issue with you but you're STILL misrepresenting the case I was making about his health. You kept saying he wasn't 100% and never would be and I argued that point with both facts and anecdotal evidence about his actual medical state while simultaneously saying he wouldn't get that full burst back for over a full year after the injury. And yes I've been proven dead on correct about that, by all accounts he can indeed get up and go again. Just because he won't take off like he used to doesn't mean he can't.

 

[CounterTrey]

I guess you're just whiny then


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So sayeth the pot to the kettle. I'm "whining" about the team (in one of how many posts lately?...not many) but you're whining about mine and other people's moods and tone.

 

[Boone]

Can't argue that! You guys enjoy yourselves.


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[Elephant]

I'm sorry but sub. 500 sucks in my book. Mediocrity as the bar just means you're setting the bar low. And again we still don't know the full deal on Griffin and won't until someone who doesn't insist on the square peg/round hole approach picks him up next year for a song when we cut him.

And I don't know whether it's a reading comprehension or stubbornness issue with you but you're STILL misrepresenting the case I was making about his health. You kept saying he wasn't 100% and never would be and I argued that point with both facts and anecdotal evidence about his actual medical state while simultaneously saying he wouldn't get that full burst back for over a full year after the injury. And yes I've been proven dead on correct about that, by all accounts he can indeed get up and go again. Just because he won't take off like he used to doesn't mean he can't.

For someone who claims to have patience, if you cannot see that 6 or 7 wins after last season is not a victory, then I ask you to define patience for us. This is what a rebuild looks like. You play the players you have acquired...younger players get plenty of time to develop, see what they have when you realize a Super Bowl is not in the cards. This season has been pretty promising considering how putrid we've been for the previous 3 seasons.

If you want to hold a team as young and in need of an overhaul to the same standards as a true Super Bowl contender...go ahead. I knew we weren't winning a Super Bowl this year... I refuse to hold this young group of player to those standards.

As much as I clamored for McGloughan to come in here and rebuild before Snyder actually did it, I was skeptical after the news was released he was our new GM. Just felt like a splash move. But it appears he really does know how to spot talent, as I'd hoped. We have upgraded many positions. Let's see how things go in the next off-season before holding this team to an unreasonable standard.

 

[micks113]

Oh the idiocrasy and madness. This is a bad team fellas, when are folks going to admit it? Gruden not righting the ship with a talentless team is hardly on him. Its somewhat of an impossible task for any coach. don't blame Gruden, Allen and Snyder will do just fine. Gruden can't make QB all pro without epic players. thank you desean. Until we get a decent QB, who cares about blaming Gruden? Nobody gets playoff results with average QB's.

Here's where I'm at. We brought the same qb's back. Maybe we had no choice, doesn't matter, same guys same results. We gave Griffin a fair shot imho. He had the huge upside. he was an injury bust in my book. didn't help that he couldn't pick up the position as it is supposed to be played. Not surprising then that Colt look way more polished yet had no upside, and was limited. Now Kirk, he has upside. The jury is still out, but ya'll keep saying he's a backup. At lease I think he is a better backup than any other team has. We don't have much for a plan B if Kirk continues to lose. But at the same time, hey, its the same three guys and Gruden has proven to us, he's willing to bench them.

My biggest worry is that we rebuild everywhere, then can't find a decent QB. so we waste a good core talent group we are finding. I'm not worried about Gruden, he wins or he's out of here. Nothing new in the nfl, they all get fired. Its the next coach and what we leave him is what is key to our short term fortunes. If folks continue to demand the coach to be fired in year one or two, well, those fans will never be satisfied. There will always be some fans who hate the coach.

I see the team responding to Gruden. Can't help if others can't. The attitude and physicality are evident. The building blocks are being laid. I feel good about this team as I think the arrow is pointing up. Get through this year, and you'll see the qb situation become clearer. Whatever happens we can't bring back the three next year. Maybe one, whoever he is, but not three.

 

[Om]

Thank you micks. I was starting to glaze over and follow Boone out the door and to the bar.

 

[DieselPwr44]

I don't know how fans and media alike have subscribed to what I call "Microwave Evaluation" when it comes to players...especially QBs, but to most players in general.

In Microwave Evaluation, all newly,drafted players or players that have little game time experience, get between 3-5 games to put up gaudy numbers.
Failure to do so immediately disqualifies them from ever being anything consequential in the league.

In the past, when speaking of Cousins, I've given examples of Qbs such as Rich Gannon,Mark Rypien,Stan Humphries,etc as guys who started off slow, had confidence and turnover issues but given time to develop, turned out to be successful players in the league....only to be told that that was then and the league doesn't work that way anymore.

Why? Human Nature hasn't changed, not all people learn at the same rate. The rule of thumb used to be: You give a young QB 25-30 starts and if there's anything left after that,you may have something to build around.

What's changed since then? Offenses have gotten more complicated. More adjustments(for about everything) at the line. Yet the time for development has shortened? Seriously?

And now, this rubric has spread to other positions as well.

Morgan Moses is a bust,because he didn't immediately get on the field. Now that he is on the field and has nailed down the RT spot, he's not special. How do you know? He's appeared in 13 games,starting 5 this year. But to some,will never amount to anything.

Microwave Evaluation.

Arie Kouandjio will be the next lineman up,if he gets on the field this year. If he doesn't see the field until next season, is he now declared a bust? To some, that answer is a yes...without any hesitation, even though he's a 4th round draft pick and despite the praise from Callahan.

Why even have any picks past round one with this mindset?

Of course, it's the same fanbase that proclaims every offseason: "Oh...I'd have all kinds of patience if we'd get a real GM and do a thorough rebuild." only to have those same folks throw a brick through the tv when this young team has it's up and downs and declare half the roster busts.
And that's with a true GM and what looks like(so far) a pretty good inaugural draft class.

These guys are growing...whether you like to hear it or not, see it or not.

So before you grab hold of that sapling and pull, how about giving it some water and a little sunlight?

You might be surprised at what it actually grows into.

 

[Boone]

Not to mention considering giving a rookie head coach more than a year and a half before casting ultimate judgment on him as an arrogant and incompetent failure.


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[Henry]

What's changed since then? Offenses have gotten more complicated. More adjustments(for about everything) at the line. Yet the time for development has shortened? Seriously?

Salary cap. Free agency.

Teams aren't built through the draft to last for a decade. They last for a few years and start turning over almost immediately.

You don't draft a QB, stick him on the bench for four years and then give him three years as a starter to develop. First of all, you can't afford to do that. The Salary cap doesn't let you. Secondly, teams turnover so fast and rise and fall overnight so there's no time to wait for a guy who might, some day, with the right combination of players, pixie dust, and coaches and people saying nice things to him and looking at him the right way, turn into an ok quarterback.

Successful QBs in this day and age are almost universally successful overnight. Manning, Flacco, Dalton, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rothelisberger, Wilson, Luck, Ryan, Stafford, Romo, Palmer, Cutler, Newton ... while some of those guys rode the bench for a few years, once they got the chance to start they didn't look back. There are a (very) few exceptions. Eli Manning got a few years to find himself. Probably because his name was Manning. And he's fairly overrated. Alex Smith has been given a lot longer than most players ... but he's just ok, really. Humphries and Rypien and Gannon? Ancient history.

Look, I don't blame you. I share your frustration. But this is what the NFL wanted. Parity, high player turnover. No dynasties.

These days draft picks have to produce almost immediately or they move on. Teams just can't afford to develop a project only to see him leave for another team. It totally sucks.

Welcome to today's NFL.

 

[Chris]

I don't see many players talked about as busts with the exception of one. Maybe I'm missing those posts. Cousins clearly isn't a bust. He ain't the answer in my mind but he's not a bust.

Gruden may not be either. He does have the luxury now of having a seemingly competent talent evaluator on board along with the addition of apparent upgrades at several key coaching positions. Hmmm, imagine that, being afforded every opportunity including time on the job to succeed.

What a concept.

Unless things spiral downhill the rest of the season I fully expect he will be back next year.

 

[Elephant]

I don't see many players talked about as busts with the exception of one. Maybe I'm missing those posts. Cousins clearly isn't a bust. He ain't the answer in my mind but he's not a bust.

Gruden may not be either. He does have the luxury now of having a seemingly competent talent evaluator on board along with the addition of apparent upgrades at several key coaching positions. Hmmm, imagine that, being afforded every opportunity including time on the job to succeed.

What a concept.

Unless things spiral downhill the rest of the season I fully expect he will be back next year.

And I hope, beyond hope that if we lose to a solid Jets team that is surprising many under the new head coach, the team doesn't completely fall apart. Somehow, I get the feeling we give the Jets a run for their money and if we lose I feel we won't fold...years past? Almost a certainty. I believe we are really seeing a bit of a culture change. Let's hope that a little suffering doesn't cause an implosion.

 

[Chris]

My concern with the Jets game lies solely on offense. If we can't effectively run the ball then a 4 interception game wouldn't be a surprise to me with that secondary.

I'm a fan of Todd Bowles. Now there is a rookie head coach that screams future success to me.

 

[DieselPwr44]

So, the thread now begs the question: When will we have a winning record? Next year? 2017?

It's the same question we've been asking for over a decade.

When we see bad teams instantly become contenders, it's only logical for us to ask, "Why not us?"

The excuses keep coming.

So everybody on this forum, especially you, has said at one time or another, how bad:

Casserley
Snyder
Snyder and Vinny
Gibbs and Vinny
Shanahan
Allen

Have all been when it's come to the draft, free agency , roster management and coaching hires.

Yet you turn around in the next breath and say "why aren't we winning right now?"

Even Sybil didn't switch personalities that fast.....