Joe Barry Report Card

[Shi no Tenshi]

Lol....I meant Watkins.

Would you say Watkins was the Bills best receiver right now, given his injury?

 

[McD5]

Yes. He's their clear number one.

 

[Goaldeje]

McD, you can defend our coaching staff as much as you want (obviously) for their scheme. But you're setting up a straw man argument - that's not the issue that most of us are upset about.

Putting Bree on Brown is fine. Presumably, with some safety help it's a plan that makes sense and should have worked.

But it didn't work. Brown torched us. Whether that's because the scheme didn't work or the safety was out of position or Breeland had a bad night, I don't know. None of us know, really.

The point is that no adjustments were made. Breeland couldn't stay with Brown and instead of mixing things up and blitzing more to get to Ben faster, rotating another safety in to help with coverage, moving Norman to cover Brown exclusively, etc, the coaching staff stuck with what their plan was.

At some point, you have to be willing to look at the gameplan and acknowledge that you might have put together the most briliant gameplan ever, but things just aren't going your way that day - for whatever reason. Change it up.

It's a criticism of Gruden a lot of us have had for 2 years now, and it doesn't appear to be getting better.

THAT'S what people are upset about, not the wisdom or lack thereof of putting Breeland on Brown.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

"Who the f*** is this?"

"This is head coach Jay Gruden and I'm in charge here"

"You're in charge here, from where I'm sitting you're in charge of jack s***"

"Listen here you a**hole."

"A**hole, I'm not the one who just got butt ****** on national tv, JAAAY."

I don't know why but this is how I figure the coaches meeting went Tuesday

 

[Bulldog]

I can't believe Joe Barry is out there trying to explain how not using his pro bowl corner to cover Antonio Brown at least on key passing downs during the game was a solid strategy move.

This guy needs to take a lesson from Carlos Rogers and the Nationals' Wilson Ramos and go get his eyes checked and a prescription for glasses.

 

[stevenaa]

You can't roll deep safety coverage effectively when your line sucks and is a sieve in the run game and incapable of generating any type of pass rush. Barry is going to have to be far more creative. I think ultimately the talent is still lacking and MCL needs at least one more, and probably two more drafts to swing the talent tide. But you cannot leave a guy out on an island to get constantly torched like that.

 

[McD5]

Everyone is so reactionary these days.

There are about five reasons or more why you wouldn't have Norman follow Brown all over the field.

In short, they're the same reasons why Carolina never did that with him, and why Seattle never did that with Sherman during their SB runs.

I'm going to trust the judgement of Carolina's coaches, or Pete Carroll, over the spastic fans calling into radio shows after one game.

 

[Goaldeje]

Everyone is so reactionary these days.

There are about five reasons or more why you wouldn't have Norman follow Brown all over the field.

In short, they're the same reasons why Carolina never did that with him, and why Seattle never did that with Sherman during their SB runs.

I'm going to trust the judgement of Carolina's coaches, or Pete Carroll, over the spastic fans calling into radio shows after one game.

Right. And until Gruden appears in the SB, you're not doing any favors to him by referring to him in the same breath as those two coaching staffs.

Psst: THEY make adjustments.

 

[McD5]

It's just reactionary statements Goal, similar to what we saw last year.

Fire Gruden! Grudung. Kirk sucks! Etc. Our fans sound like emotionally battered victims. We need to collectively breathe into a paper bag.

If having Norman blanket the top WR was the smartest move, Carolina would have done it during their 15-1 season.

If having Sherman do the same was the smart move, Pete Carroll wouldn't have gone years doing the exact opposite.

If having Revis do the same was the right move, he would have done it last night.

Our fans scream one thing......and the best Ds in the league do the opposite.

If other changes can be made that actually make sense I'm sure we'll employ them. And if we don't have the horses to do so, then it will take another draft.

 

[Goaldeje]

OK, so I'm going to bow out since you clearly aren't reading my posts.

 

[Henry]

Yeah, and if re-signing Norman was the smartest move, Carolina would have done that too, right?

I agree that losing one's mind after one game is silly. It's kinda like over-reacting to how well a team looks in the pre-season.

But again, if the only major investment a team makes on defense is a corner, to the detriment of other positions, I think that corner would be expected to make more of an impact than to spend the night covering the other team's #2 guy.

I'm guessing that in the case of Carolina, Seattle and NY, those defensive coordinators knew enough about the offenses they were facing that they were able to put their best players in a position to make the biggest impact. Joe Barry clearly did not do that on Monday. I'm not going to quibble over details. If shut-down corners don't exist in the NFL anymore for some reason, so be it, but the better teams make sure their blue chips are in the best spots. For whatever reason, we were out-coached. Pittsburgh looked at us and figured out a way to have Brown covered by our second best guy ALL GAME LONG. That shouldn't happen.

It's not just Redskin boards and radio call-in shows that noticed this. It's been all over NFL network all week. Trust me, they don't care whether we win or lose, but even neutral observers found it odd.

Here, is this guy some crazed fan?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000701859/article/why-didnt-josh-norman-trail-antonio-brown

That Team In Blue is already having fun with it:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/m...k-josh-norman-for-not-covering-antonio-brown/

 

[McD5]

OK, so I'm going to bow out since you clearly aren't reading my posts.

I'm reading your posts Goal.

You assume that we didn't try to make adjustments, and that we had enough talent on the field to do so--without making something like the running game even easier--we don't know that.

If the safeties needed to stay closer to the line to stop the run, then we didn't have much choice.

 

[McD5]

Henry, not directed at you or to anyone here, but for those fans that are panicking or who questioned the move, this might add some reality.

Listen, everybody talks as if every top corner on every team in the history of the NFL has followed one receiver around. You know how rare that is, okay? It’s like somebody getting struck by lightning; it happens about that often.

“And our fans, Redskins fans, stop acting like you’re stupid, to allow other people talking trash to make you think something,” Mitchell went on. “Nobody does that. Normally — as Fred Smoot stated on this air — the top corner covers one side of the field."

"But damn, are we that stupid to where we’re going to sit up here and believe something has transpired that hasn’t? Did Darrell Green cover the number one receiver every play? Hell no. Did Deion Sanders do it all the time? No. There were times when Deion Sanders dropped to a knee because he knew they weren’t throwing to his side, and they threw to the damn top wide receiver on the other side. So let’s get off of that mess. It’s crap.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-redskins-fans-stop-acting-like-youre-stupid/

 

[Ax]

I thought Barry's explanation made perfect sense. Telling Norman, "You got that guy", is easy. Getting everybody else on the right guy, especially with the Steelers often going no huddle, would be extremely confusing to a secondary that hasn't played together much. The chances of leaving someone uncovered would be great. The fact that it didn't work out as planned doesn't mean it wasn't the warranted approach.

And, as I've said before, Breeland was "right there" most of the time. He just didn't close the deal. I hope every team that we play goes after Breeland. Cause I think the kid is pretty damn good. with the potential to be great.

Barry needs to worry about stopping the run, and pressuring the QB. I think our corners will be fine.

 

[McD5]

But again, if the only major investment a team makes on defense is a corner, to the detriment of other positions, I think that corner would be expected to make more of an impact than to spend the night covering the other team's #2 guy.

I'm guessing that in the case of Carolina, Seattle and NY, those defensive coordinators knew enough about the offenses they were facing that they were able to put their best players in a position to make the biggest impact. Joe Barry clearly did not do that on Monday. I'm not going to quibble over details. If shut-down corners don't exist in the NFL anymore for some reason, so be it, but the better teams make sure their blue chips are in the best spots. For whatever reason, we were out-coached. Pittsburgh looked at us and figured out a way to have Brown covered by our second best guy ALL GAME LONG. That shouldn't happen.

Multiple members of the Giants mock Josh Norman for not covering Antonio Brown - CBSSports.com

I'm assuming all of those coaches believed the benefits of leaving their top CB on one side of the field outweigh the negatives.

The 2013 Seattle D (one of the greatest ever) stayed in their base defensive formation on just over 85% of their snaps.

If the top WR went in motion they didn't care. If Sherman wasn't on the top WR they didn't care. Nor did they act like they were blitzing or have any movement before the snap. They just stayed there--nearly every single play.

Pete Carroll said he did this to kill the QB audible. Teams had absolutely no idea what they were doing defensively. Every play looked the same prior to the snap and it would confuse the QB.

That's one benefit. There are many others.

 

[Henry]

I feel like I'm in crazy town.

We all watched football over the past 30 years, right? My eyes have been lying to me?

Green is lying to me?

Green didn’t have it easy, either. His assignment every week was to guard the best receivers and do it one-on-one. That was the concept behind Petitbon’s defense.

It allowed the Redskins to double the secondary receiver and have confidence that Green would lock down the primary threat. In a sense, it gave Washington a 12th man on defense. It opened up blitzes.

“I was covering the Michael Jordan of the other team,” Green said. “Everybody was a threat to me all the time because I wasn’t covering the B and C guy. I was covering the guy who brought them to the dance. There was none of them I said, 'Wow, I got a cool day today.’ I got the Jordan this week, and I got the Barkley the next week. That was a great thrill to me.”

Darrell Green: Cornerback lived right, played hard - News - The Taunton Daily Gazette, Taunton, MA - Taunton, MA

Petitbone said it all the time. Am I remembering it all wrong? He put Green on the top WR and coached up the other 10 guys.

The same for Deion. He was always talking about covering the other team's best WR.

Maybe I've been watching the game wrong all this time and it only took the Washington Post and Brian Mitchell to straighten me out in an attempt to explain a brutal loss to realize that never happened and I was just imagining it.

But ... I think I've watched enough football over the years to know that the best corner covers the best WR. If not all of the time, then damn near most of it.

 

[Henry]

I thought Barry's explanation made perfect sense. Telling Norman, "You got that guy", is easy. Getting everybody else on the right guy, especially with the Steelers often going no huddle, would be extremely confusing to a secondary that hasn't played together much.

Yes, that explanation makes sense. It's called being out-coached.

But you are right. Breeland had a bad game but he should be fine. Hopefully going forward this won't be an issue.

Then again, it shouldn't have to be anyway.

 

[Goaldeje]

Obligatory for Henry:




Again, it's NOT THE SCHEME. Why did Barry/Gruden not make any adjustments? At some point don't you get tired of getting your ass beat by THE SAME FREAKING PLAYER? Shit, throw half the defensive backfield at Antonio Brown, but stop him fer Christmas's sake.

 

[McD5]

Obligatory for Henry:

Again, it's NOT THE SCHEME. Why did Barry/Gruden not make any adjustments? At some point don't you get tired of getting your ass beat by THE SAME FREAKING PLAYER? Shit, throw half the defensive backfield at Antonio Brown, but stop him fer Christmas's sake.

1. How do you know they didn't make any adjustments? Because they didn't send out texts to the fans?
2. If they did move a safety over, would 5 yard running plays turn into 12 yard running plays?
3. If Brown goes in the slot and you move Norman over, who plays on the outside? Just move our slot corner outside, where they may suck?
4. If Norman goes in motion, why don't the Steelers then just release the tight end to exactly where Norman was standing prior?
5. Many teams, especially in basketball, know that the best will still score points. Contain Kobe, but stop everyone else.
6. This is Antonio Brown. Many expect him to go for the greatest season in history this year--over 2,000 yards as a WR. He's going to get a lot of catches regardless of coverage.
7. Breeland has played with the best. He also had an INT in the first half. He doesn't suck.
8. There were many things more important than stopping Brown. Like stopping Williams.
9. Would stopping Brown have prevented Kirk Cousins from sucking in the game?
10. Their running game, and our running game still sucked.

 

[Henry]

McD5,

That's a lot of spaghetti to throw at the wall, but largely irrelevant to the discussion on why Pittsburgh's best WR was allowed to line up against our second best CB all game long.