It's past time to be a good team...

[fansince62]

I hesitate to say this because I know a lot of you guys are going to go nuts on me but even in the midst of rebuilding, we are really only one player away from being truly relevant in the NFC. Sadly that position is QB and it would take a guy who ranked in the Top 3rd of the NFL for it to happen.

Our receivers do not currently look like world beaters but then whose do until they have an above average QB throwing to them? For years Manning has made guys with no more talent then our group dangerous. Same for Brees. Brady has turned guys drafted low or not at all into a pretty good group. Fitz is throwing to 6th and 7th rounders in Buffalo.

A great QB with a quick, accurate release can make up for an average line too. Again, just look at what Manning has done in Indy for years.

And a solid passing game would make the current running game in Washington work great.

Sure, there would still be some drops by the receivers, some sacks taken and a RB stuffed from time to time.

But guys were running open in the Eagles secondary, a very talented Eagles secondary, yesterday and were flat missed. Granted, hitting them is no guarantee they catch the ball but if the ball doesn't at least get within arms reach even the best receiver in football is useless.

It is also possible that just slightly better throws on some of those drops result in catches and slightly better thrown balls on receptions result in more yards after the catch.

Could this offense use better players at nearly every position? Sure. But a serious upgrade at just the one position would make this team relevant NOW.

that's what I have been saying all along. I thought with an upper tier QB we could at least make the playoffs. the offense still has a ways to go before KS can actually use the full playbook. IMO...while he has made some bad playcalls.....I think he has been hamstrung by the QBs. he's calling conservative games precisely because the QBs are limited and the o-line has been shaky.

 

[Neophyte]

We have had a top 10 pick or picks in 1999, 2000,2004,2005,2007,2010 and 2011.

How many of these selections were for quarterbacks?

Out of all the free agent dollars Dan Snyder spent in the 2000's, how many legitimate NFL passers were among that group that set records for signing bonus dollars at a couple of positions?

When you ask yourself these questions, you realize the Redskins in the era of the franchise quarterback have gone out and acquired everything else.
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Exactly.

Consider some of the guys who have changed teams in the last few years:

Drew Brees (2005 FA) - probably the biggest name to move from one team to the next who could be pulling the trigger here in DC. He went from San Diego to New Orleans as a free agent and the rest is history. His 6 year, $60 million deal with New Orleans looks pretty sweet right now, especially considering all the other money this team has spent. Can you really tell me Washington couldn't have outbid New Orleans for his services?

Matt Hasselbeck (2011 FA) - While obviously not in the same class as Brees, he has elevated a Titans passing offense this season well beyond anyone's expectations, so much so that they are competetive even with Chris Johnson is tanking and their best WR, Kenny Britt, is out for the season. He has 9TD's against 4 INT's.

Matt Schaub (2007 Trade) - Acquired for 2 second round picks and a swap of 1st rounders (difference of two places in the first round), you have to admit that he was cheap for the price. Granted, part of his success has been having Andre Johnson to throw to but he is still a clear upgrade over any QB who has graced the Skins roster since Mark Rypien and he could have been had under Gibbs, a guy who liked trading away his draft picks.

There are 3 options that represent a clear upgrade to anybody on our roster today, 2 of which could have been pursued as Free Agents in a day where the Skins always got their man.

This is without even talking about who the Skins could have drafted in that time. We could have taken Brees right out college as he was still on the board when we drafted Rod 50/50 Gardner. Schaub was taking 9 picks AFTER the Skins drafted Chris Cooley in 2004.

More recently than that we have passed on guys like Colt McCoy, Andy Dalton and Josh Freeman.

 

[redskins26]

Neo there has been a few years where i doubt Manning could have made our line look average

 

[redskins26]

For the last decade or so, we've had no scouting department to find these guys, since Lord Farquaad fired almost all of them in the early 2000's. Last year was the first draft we've had in a decade that had input from a competant scouting staff.

isnt Scott brown still their he has pulled some decent people out when we havent traded all our picks away

 

[Dead Money]

We're still another year from deserving a QB. This team has holes all over and they need to be filled. Why shellshock another QB? I'm fine with losing as long as the front office is filling holes along the way. Another good draft and decent offseason of smart free agents and we'll be ready to add a qb. Will they do it in the draft? I dunno. The QB the shanahans are looking for is a little different than the Gabberts and Mallets. I really think we would have gone QB if the draft had fallen differently but it didn't and I'm not gonna cry about it.

I hate to say it but Kellen Clemons maybe should be signed and maybe Rex should be sent packing. And sorry Mr. Moss, its not for one game. We all knew that the one thing that would get you canned was stupid turnovers, anybody who says different is lying.

John Beck will make a turnover here and there cause he's just not that good. But I'll be glad if he gets the job be cause that guy has heart and wants that job more. Rex just seems to think he deserves it. It will signal to the rest of the team that they are all held accountable. Our WR core is vanilla. No real quality future DB depth. The Oline needs work and yes our backers need replacements. London Fletcher starts to show his age and this defense will fall apart at the seams and looks like they did yesterday a lot more often. And there is some dead weight to jettison.(cough) Hall (cough)

I could go on but I'm tired. Its not just the QB, its never just been the QB but soon...hopefully soon...it will be.

 

[Bulldog]

Funny, the Rams didn't do that. They took Bradford. The Colts took Manning after being 1-15 in 1997. The Panthers took Cam Newton even though they knew their team in 2011 was going to be forgettable.

What are you people waiting for? Are you waiting for the Redskins to have a 14-2 caliber team that we can then just drag and drop a franchise quarterback into to win the Super Bowl?

That isn't the way teams win in the NFL.

It usually takes several seasons for a quarterback to mature enough to lead a team to a title.

If you give a player that lead time of 2-3 years and project out from the 2012 draft then by that logic you can go away and come back to watch the Redskins in 2015, because by then they will be ready to win.

Too bad the 26, 27 and 28 year old players on this team will be retired by then.

 

[Dead Money]

Name a franchise QB that we can get today? OK then.

The rams were the worst team in FB... They were in line for a while too. Getting a franchise QB isn't easy, finding one that fits what you're trying to do offensively makes it tougher. I understand where you're coming from but it is what it is... They will get one when they find one, I find it hard to believe its NOT a priority. You just can't do everything at once
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[Rymanofthenorth]

the rams are still bad, but they at least tried to do it right, drafting several Olinemen and then drafting a franchise qb, too bad their line picks have all busted so far but part of that is coaching and scheme. we need to build an oline and let it gel before shellshocking a young qb I dont want a david carr situation where we draft a kid with potential and ruin him.

 

[Boone]

I think where Bulldog and I are coming from is, of all the positions, QB requires the most 'OJT'. Yeah - I know there have been exceptions, but conventional wisdom is that a) you don't throw a newly-drafted young QB out there until he's ready, and b) even if you do, don't expect it to be pretty or be able to consistently win immediately.

So that makes waiting and waiting to get a young stud QB somewhat puzzling. It goes without saying we have had other holes, and the whole 'you can't put him out there without the proper supporting cast and protection around him' argument is somewhat valid - but it would still seem wise to find your QB and get him in the fold sooner, rather than later.

 

[burgold]

I think where Bulldog and I are coming from is, of all the positions, QB requires the most 'OJT'. Yeah - I know there have been exceptions, but conventional wisdom is that a) you don't throw a newly-drafted young QB out there until he's ready, and b) even if you do, don't expect it to be pretty or be able to consistently win immediately.

So that makes waiting and waiting to get a young stud QB somewhat puzzling. It goes without saying we have had other holes, and the whole 'you can't put him out there without the proper supporting cast and protection around him' argument is somewhat valid - but it would still seem wise to find your QB and get him in the fold sooner, rather than later.

Seems to me, there's two basic ways for a team to get really good. One is to get that A level QB and surround him with enough good talent that he can shine.

The other way is to get great talent and fit in the good quarterback. I honestly think that if you have an A+ oline that you only need a B qb. The problem is, we have a C o line... and a C/D qb. Therefore, none can lift the other. None can overcome the deficiencies of the other.

Our wide receivers are good enough. Our running backs and tight ends are good enough. What we don't have are either of the two cores. You need at least one.

 

[gbear]

I think the franchise QB is a dream with our franchise's business model barring a miracle.

We've been moderately terrible for a long time. The problem is we aren't terrible enough to draft high enough for the concensus sure fire QB. Those are gone before pick 5. We've been just good enough to be picking in the second tier where a team darn well better get value on picks that high. The problem with the QB picked there is one of expected value. Should we not have drafted a LB to go opposite Orakpo if we thought he could make our D good to great be cause we had a 50/50 chance of landing a decent QB? Could we have afforded to miss?

We are stuck in that middle group of bad. Just bad enough to never threaten, and just good enough to never stink. I think some of thise may be the results of the business model. Snyder by being willing to put money where the GM thinks is best for right now, in advertaintly causes problems. For example, GM picks a good coach, and a good coach installing a system is probably worth a few games a year...Guess what? Those few games may cost us the needed QB draft pick. So now we are left with the hopes of finding a good QB. We need to catch lightning in a bottle, or soon we will need to just suck it up and take a chance. Like in a game of yahtzee, we will soon need to risk throwing away those 3 fours because we need 6's.

 

[fansince62]

Seems to me, there's two basic ways for a team to get really good. One is to get that A level QB and surround him with enough good talent that he can shine.

The other way is to get great talent and fit in the good quarterback. I honestly think that if you have an A+ oline that you only need a B qb. The problem is, we have a C o line... and a C/D qb. Therefore, none can lift the other. None can overcome the deficiencies of the other.

Our wide receivers are good enough. Our running backs and tight ends are good enough. What we don't have are either of the two cores. You need at least one.

reasonable post! I see where you are coming from. that said...I fall the other way - I think an A+ guy is needed at QB. problem is...this team's manpower management practices have not placed it in a position to draft the right guy. so...following Henry's lead...we spend another draft building the core positions and continue to improve...how do we ever get that great QB?

 

[Bulldog]

exactly right. we are suffering from 'Bullets disease'. Remember that?

In the 1980's and 1990's the Bullets would finish below .500 but would never be the absolute worst team in the league so were never able to garner the #1 pick and have the chance to select a franchise changer.

The Redskins have been in similar position.

Finishing 5-11 in 2009, Washington still only got the #4 pick and that was too late to get Sam Bradford. This past year the team fell to the #8 pick although we only won one more game and by the time of that selection Cam Newton was gone.

Blaine Gabbert to many people was not a franchise quarterback. So, I don't have a problem with the team passing on him at such high cost of a top 10 pick.

BUT, I thought the team in Rounds 2-7 would take time out to find a diamond in the rought we could develop who could fit this system.

Instead we did nothing and now will have to start over from scratch in January.

That's fine as long as the player you select in the draft doesn't take several years to acclimate to the NFL and become a real performer for us.

BTW - don't tell Jim Harbaugh or Raheem Morris about taking years to put a capable team together. Some of these newer coaches and general managers seem able to turn things around in a couple of years.

The five-seven year plan teams were on in the 1970's and 1980's is gone.

 

[Hog Fever]

I remember Bullet's disease quite well and that's a great way to put it. Still, looking back it's almost unforgivable that we didn't take a shot at ANY QB in last years draft. It was an obvious need over just about any other.

I keep telling myself that we were so talent poor that it's going to take time but without a QB we aren't going anywhere.

 

[Goaldeje]

I remember Bullet's disease quite well and that's a great way to put it. Still, looking back it's almost unforgivable that we didn't take a shot at ANY QB in last years draft. It was an obvious need over just about any other.

I keep telling myself that we were so talent poor that it's going to take time but without a QB we aren't going anywhere.

I stared at your post for 5 minutes trying to figure out how to debate it. But I can't. My frustration with this current regime (who by and large I think is doing a good job, btw) is that they can't seem to be able to decide if they are playing to win now, or playing for the future. It will take time as you sau HF, so why are we not playing the kids now? As most of us have said in other threads, do any of us think Hank is going to drop MORE passes than Stallworth did last weekend?

If we didn't take a shot on a QB in the draft, fine. That indicated to me that they all thought we were a ways away from being competitive for a playoff spot. So be it, I can handle that. What is hard for me to stomach is drafting a ton of players and then not playing them over 30 year old retreads.

 

[burgold]

Unfortunately... or maybe fortunately, I can never tell, you always have to do both. You always have to try to win now and be as good as you can, but keep your eye on the future.

I would like to see our young receivers get more field time. Obviously, Kerrigan is doing well. Gomes is hurt so I understand why he's not out there. Barnes has been doing pretty well. Jenkins would have gotten a ton of PT this year, but unfortunately, he was lost for the year. Helu is getting his chances.

So, I think we are playing some pups, but still don't have the parts to play enough of them. Would you sit Fletch or Rocky right now? Who ya benchin' for whom?

As I said, giving Moss some breathers and letting Austin sub like we do with Helu would be okay in my book. Same with Paul for Gaffney. I'm not sure who else should be out there getting reps who isn't?

 

[Goaldeje]

I'd also sub Hank in as well, Burgold. Seems to me we spent a 3rd on him, and we better see if that was a waste or not. I know he dropped a lot of passes in the Preseason, but now the guys ahead of him are dropping plenty of passes as well, so wouldn't it make more sense to take those drops from a younger guy to see what we have?

I'm excited about seeing Cook as well, as Lanky has mentioned. Shanny has such a great track record with late round OLinemen, I'd like to see if that trend will continue here.

I'd love to see if Perry Reily can come out and put his disastrous performance from last year behind him, but you're right. Who to sit. The LBers are playing very, very well. If we are out of it definitively, then I think we sit Rocky or even London to see what he can do.

I like our young corners, would love to see what they can do, given how Hall has played, and what we know about Buchanan, not like we have a lot to lose there.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah, they need to put Hank, Paul & Austin on the field more. I understand you're paying Moss and Gaffney a lot more money and they need their snaps, but come on! These are the future of the franchise...let's see what they can do.

 

[Bulldog]

We can all make excuses for why the Redskins don't have or haven't been able to acquire a franchise qb.

The bottom line is top clubs find them.

Some are lucky enough to get the first pick in a year where there is a top prospect available such as was the case for the Cowboys and Aikman, Colts and Manning as well as the lions with Stafford, etc.

Other clubs take a risk like New Orleans and end up with Drew Brees for no compensation as a free agent.
The Cardinals a few years back signed Kurt Warner as a street free agent and he took them to a Super Bowl.

The Redskins could have signed these players.

Other good organizations find their quarterbacks in the middle to late first round as the Steelers did with Roethlisberger and the Packers did with Aaron Rodgers.

The point is you don't judge an organization on HOW they get the top qb they need, but on whether through whatever means they GET HIM excuses aside.
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[Tulane Skins Fan]

It's been twenty years. I don't want to hear about rebuilding, interceptions, or Rex. All of that is true, but it's past time that this team became good. How often have we been the team to receive the desperate team about to fall off the map only to give them a hand up? Call them the Giant's, or the Eagles, or any of ten other teams... Why do we always give a first year quarterback his first win?
......

Burgold, I feel your pain. But we are literally 5 games into a rebuild. The way we got into this twenty year mess was, for the most part, by demanding a superbowl champion the year after we stunk. Its time to build with youth and depth. It may be next year, or the year after that. But rebuilds take time.