If our defense is so great......

[servumtuum]

The problem I have with people wanting to dispense with Orakpo is they're concentrating too much on his individual stats as opposed to what he contributes to the defense as whole.

Take the Green Bay Packers for example. Their pass defense went downhill after they lost Cullen Jenkins and they didn't have a bookend for Clay Mathews which allowed other teams to concentrate on double or triple teaming CMIII and pretty much crippling their pass rush. Without Orakpo what would keep other teams from doing the same thing with Kerrigan? You need a credible threat of an Orakpo to give Kerrigan freedom to operate and vice-versa.

No player operates in isolation, in other words thus making Orakpo's presence as a counter threat have value even if his numbers don't have "highlight reel" quality taken individually.

 

[Califan007]

The problem I have with people wanting to dispense with Orakpo is they're concentrating too much on his individual stats as opposed to what he contributes to the defense as whole.

Take the Green Bay Packers for example. Their pass defense went downhill after they lost Cullen Jenkins and they didn't have a bookend for Clay Mathews which allowed other teams to concentrate on double or triple teaming CMIII and pretty much crippling their pass rush. Without Orakpo what would keep other teams from doing the same thing with Kerrigan? You need a credible threat of an Orakpo to give Kerrigan freedom to operate and vice-versa.

No player operates in isolation, in other words thus making Orakpo's presence as a counter threat have value even if his numbers don't have "highlight reel" quality taken individually.

Yep, exactly...Orakpo is one of the better LBs in terms of generating QB pressure, even if that pressure doesn't always result in a sack for him. He hasn't hit his ceiling yet, and hasn't even hit is prime...trading him for the comfort of telling yourself "at least we have a 1st round pick in 2014" is asinine and a loser's mentality. Take your shot, swing for the fences, and make it work...that's what Shanahan did when trading for RG3. No need to trade away any of our young talent in order to minimize risk.

 

[Henry]

Orakpo is a bright spot on a team that doesn't have a ton of bright spots. He's not old. He's not a problem in the locker room. I do not think it would be a great plan to get rid of one of our bookend pass rushers simply because he doesn't perfectly fit into this defense in the minds of some of our fans. We haven't had a pass rushing tandem like Orakpo and Kerrigan on this team in a LOOOOOONG time. Let's not treat it like a luxury.

That said, a 1st and a 2nd would be tough to pass up. Ask me again when someone actually offers that.

 

[Califan007]

Got a question for the smartest fans in all of football - heck, in the entirety of all sports.

If a team comes to us in the next week or anytime before training camp opens and offers a 2013 1st rounder for Brian Orakpo and a 3rd in 2014 (can move to a 2nd if so many snaps are played), should we take it?

The reason I ask is due to some of the comments in this thread and some other thoughts in similar threads. Just asking.

Two ways to answer this:

1) Everyone (except a bonafide franchise QB) should be open to being traded...someone is stupid enough to offer up a goldmine for one of your better players, you have to at least consider it.

2) That being said, the saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" applies here. Once you DO have young talent that you can groom and grow and develop, there's no real reason to want to part with that player...especially if there's nobody behind him that could realistically take that player's place. If you trade a player, it shouldn't leave a hole...or else all you're doing is taking that brand new draft pick and using it to find another player to replace the one you just traded away.

The Cowboys did that with their TEs recently--traded Fasano for a 2nd round pick, then used a 2nd round pick on Bennett...who they have released lol. Two 2nd round picks used on one position, and ultimately nothing to show for it.

For all the "draft is a crapshoot" talk fans love to spew, I would think sticking with a young, drafted player who's a "hit" would be the smart thing to do...especially when you don't already have his replacement on the roster.

 

[Elephant]

Brian Orakpo is a liability in coverage. If we were talking about a 4-3 pass rush specialist I would agree with all of you, he would be a great but we are not. We now run a 3-4 and he is expected to cover TE's like Rob Gronkowski, more importantly Jason Whitten and the like. Do you guys remember how many times we saw Rak a step or 2 behind the receiver over the past 2 years? Too many times and his cover skills are never going to get much better than they are now. Look at the transformation of Kerrigan, he made a much easier transition to cover than Rak and Rak had a full season and off-season to get accustomed to the switch.

I like Brian Orakpo, a lot! He has been the face of the franchise over the past few years. Maybe with that weight off his shoulders he will be more effective in certain schemes where he has been at best serviceable. Unfortunately at this point, he is a one trick pony. That one trick has gotten him to a few Pro Bowls, but for him to reach the "sky's the limit" bench mark many of you claim he has (And I agree to a point), he has to learn a few more moves than the bull rush and he needs to learn to cover much better.

Since we decided to make the switch to 3-4, I would have no problem trading him and if the rumors were true, the coaches thought the same since they tried to package him in the RG3 trade.

 

[Henry]

Yep. I agree with Mike and Califan. Pointing out Orakpo's weaknesses doesn't change the fact that our defense is overall much weaker without him in the lineup. Much weaker.

We live and die with our pass rush these days, and without Orakpo, we're dying. It would be a risk to lose him for picks. The more picks the lower the risk, so I'd have to see what's ont he table before outright rejecting an offer. A 1st and a 2nd is at least worth thinking about, but I don't know.

 

[Califan007]

Yep. I agree with Mike and Califan. Pointing out Orakpo's weaknesses doesn't change the fact that our defense is overall much weaker without him in the lineup. Much weaker.

We live and die with our pass rush these days, and without Orakpo, we're dying. It would be a risk to lose him for picks. The more picks the lower the risk, so I'd have to see what's ont he table before outright rejecting an offer. A 1st and a 2nd is at least worth thinking about, but I don't know.

Yep...and here's the thing: if someone offered a 1st and 3rd (potentially 2nd) rounder for Orakpo, that essentially means he has come close to outperforming his draft status so far...so if Orakpo is now worth a 1st and 2nd round pick, we definitely need to keep him lol...5-11 teams need to keep those types of players, not get rid of them in hopes of finding another one down the line.

 

[Califan007]

Isn't the LB we took this year suppsed to be London's replacement? Honestly, I always feel a little concerned about relying on a mid-round pick to replace a stalwart starter like London.

I love the irony of this comment lol

 

[ntotoro]

Isn't the LB we took this year suppsed to be London's replacement? Honestly, I always feel a little concerned about relying on a mid-round pick to replace a stalwart starter like London. We'll have to see, I guess.

Fletch was undrafted.

Nick

 

[Fear The Spear]

I love the irony of this comment lol

Fletch was undrafted.

Nick

Doesn't mean his replacement could be.....Fletch was the exception, not the norm. Although, we did get lucky with un-drafted Antonio Pierce, we just couldn't hang on to him.

 

[bird_1972]

I love the irony of this comment lol

I hear you, but as FTS said, lightning rarely strikes twice.

Chances are, we can't necessarily bank on a mid-low-undrafted LB being able to reach London's level of acheivement.

Either way, it's what we got now.

 

[Elephant]

Yep. I agree with Mike and Califan. Pointing out Orakpo's weaknesses doesn't change the fact that our defense is overall much weaker without him in the lineup. Much weaker.

We live and die with our pass rush these days, and without Orakpo, we're dying. It would be a risk to lose him for picks. The more picks the lower the risk, so I'd have to see what's ont he table before outright rejecting an offer. A 1st and a 2nd is at least worth thinking about, but I don't know.

Mario Williams...

Why on earth would Houston give up on arguably the best DE in the league? He doesn't fit the system in Houston. And they got no compensation for him! Same reason I suggested we should take a trade for Orakpo if the right price were offered. The drop off you suggest may not be such a drop off if the OLB replacing Rak can cover and rush and stop the run. I'm sorry, but I didn't notice a dramatic drop off in the defensive production when Rob Jackson replaced Rak last year.

I know I am not going to convince any of you otherwise, but let me ask you one question. Why was Orakpo being dangled as bait for the trade to get us RG3? I think it is because the coaches know that he is expendable in this system.

 

[Califan007]

I hear you, but as FTS said, lightning rarely strikes twice.

Chances are, we can't necessarily bank on a mid-low-undrafted LB being able to reach London's level of acheivement.

Either way, it's what we got now.

I don't think you could bank on ANY drafted LB being able to reach London's leve of achievement, regardless of where he was drafted...his career is rare.

And it's more than a bit ironic that the best two MLBs the Skins have had over the last 12+ years were both undrafted free agents lol...not to mention Perry Riley was looking like a stud last season, and he was drafted in the 4th round.

 

[Califan007]

I know I am not going to convince any of you otherwise, but let me ask you one question. Why was Orakpo being dangled as bait for the trade to get us RG3? I think it is because the coaches know that he is expendable in this system.

Where was this rumor started from?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Bottom line, Rak is almost a one trick pony, he has superlative athleticism and great top end straightline speed as well as ridiculous strength for a man with his size, but he lacks the smooth change of direction and loose hips that Make Ware such a great OLB. He doesnt have a great comeback, no real rip to swim or swim to spin and almost all of his pressures and sacks come on bullrushes.

IMHO He would be one of the best rush ends in the NFL but as a 3-4 OLB he is a severe liability in coverage and hasnt improved, he is not an easy block but he can be easily schemed.

We changed to a 3-4 because Shanny is brutal at judging defensive players, he watched some film saw Raks measureables and decided we should run a 3-4, its been an abject fail for two reasons, we wasted 2 seasons on a transition that was supposed to utilise Rak to his maximum potential but he is no longer ever our best defensive player and we had to use another high round pick to even get moderate production out of him. so double fail.

IF we were going to use more 40 looks (which with Jenkins playing 3 tech with Rak and kerrigan at end and a rotation at Nt I think we could) then he is worth keeping but he is at his ceiling in this scheme right now.

Rak is one of my favourite players on the team, but he will never be more than decent as an OLB in either a 4-3 or 3-4. his probowls came on name recognition

 

[Elephant]

a player who tore his pectoral muscle and is probably going to not do so hot because of it.

Is Ware any good in pass protection? Does he even drop back that often? we dont have anyone who can do ALL the things you suggest so why are we talking about this as if we know who is better than Rak?

I dont remember Rak being dangled as trade bait. do you have any links for that? not that i am doubting you but I would be curious to read it.

You do realize Rak had surgery on his torn pectoral muscle in January? Or is that who you were talking about?

 

[Henry]

Ry, I don't think a player generally goes to pro-bowls his first two seasons as a pro on name recognition.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Ry, I don't think a player generally goes to pro-bowls his first two seasons as a pro on name recognition.

He gets name recognition, if he talks to GEICO cavemen.

 

[Henry]

He gets name recognition, if he talks to GEICO cavemen.

Good point.

However, wasn't that commercial the result of his pro-bowl appearances and not the other way around?

 

[fansince62]

rak is an integral part of our defense....the time to trade him is after he has peaked. and that's not going to be any time soon!