How do you feel about tonights game?

We aren't that far away from putting it together against lesser teams...Seattle is sound and solid across the board they shut down our running game...We can't quite pull it off without big plays from the defense or special teams against the premier teams. News Flash we aren't a premier team. We were flat and soft against the Giants...We were competing and functioning against Seattle. I'm not ready to throw in the towel...losing to Seattle and the Eagles was to be expected... the team is finding it's way with Gruden. I didn't see that with Shanny and son...We don't need to make a superbowl run to say we are moving in the right direction. The defense and special teams played well enough to get a win against lesser opponents.
 
I think the most disappointing thing is news of the attitude in locker room after the game. Even some of the leaders were joking and laughing.

If they don't care...why should I? Problem is I do care. For about 40 years I have had a love affair with this team.

I wish the players could see and understand how much we care.
 
Wow. I guess they should fill the fans in that this is a rebuilding year, and we can just write it off. No need to attend games or root for them since it's designed to be a losing season.

Jay Gruden looking into Washington Redskins players joking around after loss - ESPN

I agree and disagree with this...I know, bipolar! As a fan who attends many games, I don't want to hear the team doesn't take a loss seriously. However, he is correct, it is a rebuilding year and I think most of us knew that going into the season.
 
The problem with McD5's logic is that it doesn't lead anywhere: well....you can win with a worse o-line you can win with a better one; you can win with a better d-line you can win with a worse one; you can win with a better QB you can win with a worse one....etc....etc.....

which, of course, neglects one salient set of facts: we aren't winning with better or worse lines; better or worse QBs
 
I'm right there with you Al. Part of what we lack (maybe more so than in recent memory) are 'playmakers'. You could argue that the only two players we have on our roster who are capable of making game-changing plays are Griffin and Desean Jackson. We have some solid players at spots, but those are really the only two guys who can make the handful of plays that can turn the game around. I might put Kerrigan in that group - except he's still not quite there. He rarely can do it on his own, like JJ Watt has already done multiple times this year.

Where are the guys that can spark a huge momentum change? Force a key turnover? They just aren't on this roster. And it's hard to win, or to take games like last night and find a way to win even when you aren't playing well overall. We just don't have those kinds of players.
 
I think the most disappointing thing is news of the attitude in locker room after the game. Even some of the leaders were joking and laughing.

If they don't care...why should I? Problem is I do care. For about 40 years I have had a love affair with this team.

I wish the players could see and understand how much we care.

I expect this is much ado about nothing, and the Press is trying to stir the pot. But I do like the comments Gruden made about how he would view that if in fact that's what was going on. He sounded like Brad Pitt doing Billy Beane in 'Moneyball'. 'That's what losing sounds like.'
 
After last night ,one thing is clear.

If you're not strong up front,you'll never be nothing more than a bobber: sometimes above water,sometimes below.

Cousin had time to throw but then we get rag dolled in the run game.

Until this club gets serious about trench building,we'll continue to flounder.

I can't agree more with this. And we're going to see Dallas investment in at least it's OL pay off in spades this season. How painful is that?
 
You don't point to outliers who succeed despite having missing pieces as evidence that those missing pieces aren't important. Lots of things contribute to success. Schedule, how hot or cold a team gets at the right time, officiating, coaching, luck, injuries. So what? The bottom line is, the stronger the team is in every area, the more likely they are to overcome adversity and those other factors. We can point to other teams who have been 'as bad' as the Redskins in certain areas as evidence the Redskins are fine. Hell, the Redskins themselves caught fire in 2012 and won the division with a team with pretty close to the talent this one has.

But this is not a good team. No amount of spinning alters that. We are what our record says we are.
 
exactly Boone!

we're simply not hitting any high enders (except Silverback, maybe Kerrigan) in terms of roster management (thinking of the draft here - the heart of any teams long-term success). I'll concede that the odds have been long given years of mis-management by Snyderatto, roster overhaul by Shanahan and sacrificed picks for RGIII. but even with high picks we're not getting consistent value year in and year out. a talent poor team pickled off its number 2 and 3 picks this last draft - we're not getting ANY starting value out of these two picks. this has been the theme for years now. you just can't consistently win with performance like this. as other have pointed out...we retain coaches on a new staff we all know are not top tier. btw....I have no sympathy for Gruden on this one. he made that bed. well.....tough luck if that weight drags you down. we seem to be lost in nowhere land. the play on the field is completely symbolic of the management of this team - it's gotten better...but it's not in synch, it doesn't add up to an identity, those teams that have either one kick our arses every time.
 
What bed has gruden made within 5 weeks? He walked in to whatever it is now and is trying to help it. The only thing he could be responsible for is desean and maybe the draft picks.
 
I'm willing to give Gruden a year, but barring some exceptional, unanticipated turnaround, if he doesn't fire Haz at the end of the season (or sooner), I will be completely off the Gruden bandwagon.
 
What bed has gruden made within 5 weeks? He walked in to whatever it is now and is trying to help it. The only thing he could be responsible for is desean and maybe the draft picks.

I don't think so. Are you suggesting he didn't have a vote on his coaching staff? 5 weeks or 5 years...doesn't matter. He's accountable. Hazlett immediately comes to mind. Far as I am concerned...Gruden earns ZERO free passes on this. Certainly a new coach deserves time to reposition the team compass to the direction he wants to head in. so we all need to give this some time. that doesn't mean, however, that we as observers can't see bad decisions along the way.
 
That's pretty much where I am, Goal. First-year Coaches taking over 3-13 teams should get at least a year before one starts to make any real valuations.

But the Haslett decision at the end of this year will say a lot to me about who Allen and Gruden are and whether we're looking at turning a corner or just running off the road again.
 
The trouble for Gruden right now is, the offense isn't doing any better than the defense is. Be hard for him to justify firing Haslett at the end of the year if that doesn't change. Haslett is not holding us back, at this point. The whole team is responsible.

Of course, Gruden gets time to prove his worth/style/system. Haz is a known commodity. Keeping him to aid a 1st year coach, who happens to also be his friend, is completely logical, and understandable. However frustrating it is.

We need to get our injured players back, ASAP.

Beat Arizona!!!
 
That's pretty much where I am, Goal. First-year Coaches taking over 3-13 teams should get at least a year before one starts to make any real valuations.

But the Haslett decision at the end of this year will say a lot to me about who Allen and Gruden are and whether we're looking at turning a corner or just running off the road again.

I would also caution all the folks saying Gruden is doign fine and that they can see progress that most of us were pretty darn jacked up about Shanny early on too. One year does not a career make good or bad. So I'll give Gruden the benefit of the doubt for his on field coaching but like others he gets zero slack cut on his hiring mistakes. A simple Google search would have enlightened him. He either didn't do his homework or did and ignored it.

Ax I can't agree at all that the situations are similar. Gruden walked into a nightmare clusterfudge with serious talent holes and has adjusted his system to our talent to some degree. Haslett walked into a top ten D that was running a completely different system, forced square pegs into round holes (and continues to do so) and has turned it into a historically bad defense, a punchline. And keeping a guy because he's your friend and MIGHT help with your transition into a leadership role is not logical it's ignoring facts and doing the exact opposite of what's logical. No that's emotional, zero logic being used there.
 
3 tds called back on penalties. 1 or 2 of the count and we're all worse off than right now... Another laugher. Thank God for the zebras... Ha whoever thought I'd be saying that?
 
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Ax I can't agree at all that the situations are similar. Gruden walked into a nightmare clusterfudge with serious talent holes and has adjusted his system to our talent to some degree. Haslett walked into a top ten D that was running a completely different system, forced square pegs into round holes (and continues to do so) and has turned it into a historically bad defense, a punchline. And keeping a guy because he's your friend and MIGHT help with your transition into a leadership role is not logical it's ignoring facts and doing the exact opposite of what's logical. No that's emotional, zero logic being used there.
We can disagree on the logic. I don't like it, but I can see it for what it is. Especially if Haslett convinced Gruden & Allen that he could do better without Shamahan's meddling. Now, he has the added excuse of injuries. Gruden has very similar problems on offense, as of now. I suspect the offense to get it together before the D, or ST. We need 2 phases working well in order to win. Right now, we don't have one.

And don't make out like the "top ten D" was anything to brag about. It wasn't. The switch to a 3-4 wasn't Haslett's call. It was Shammy's. Gruden chose to stick with it. Hopefully, our next DC will get to choose which one he wants to run. Although, as an organization, if the 3-4 is going to be our play, then we should get someone who actually knows how to run it. And can convey to the scouting department which type of players to focus in on.

Other than Greg Williams, we haven't had a good DC around here since Petitbon.

Amazing how Haslett can make you long for the days of, Ron Lynn. :movefast:

Edit: As of right now, our defense is ranked #10 overall.
I'm sure you're as thrilled as I am.
 
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I can understand why Gruden might want a familiar face like Haz as a rookie head coach coming to a 3 -13 season. At times the Defense has played respectable. Then again maybe the guy he wanted wasn't available? There are many reasons why Haz was retained...regardless of the reasons why us fans think he should be gone. Haz has his chance to make the job his own...if he fails I'm certain he will be fired. I'm at a loss on other coaching choices...our db coach is at the top of the list. What has he done to get a pass? He was fired from Tampa and our dbs have never played so poorly as the last 20 games or so...
 
That's pretty much where I am, Goal. First-year Coaches taking over 3-13 teams should get at least a year before one starts to make any real valuations.

But the Haslett decision at the end of this year will say a lot to me about who Allen and Gruden are and whether we're looking at turning a corner or just running off the road again.


Honestly, and I hate to say this, but retaining Haslett already told us what we needed to know about Allen and Gruden on that front, Om.

There was absolutely zero justification for retaining him considering just how bad our defense had been under him for most of his tenure, I don't care what ridiculous narrative about Mike being too involved is claimed or that Haslett didn't have anything to work with. Enough was already enough. I could understand if the defense was just average throughout his tenure, then MAYBE one could claim those things as being reason enough to retain him, but the defense was consistently one of the worst in the league. There were times we were historically bad, literally.

When you've got options like Wade Phillips out there, who has done nothing but coordinate top 10 defense's his entire career, and his scheme fits your personnel to a friggin tee, there simply was no excuse for retaining Haslett. Even if the narrative is true, that Has wasn't allowed to run the D like he wanted (whatever, what was he doing the entire time, farting in his office?) and he had awful personnel (true, but a better coordinator gets more out of them and we saw how that works at the end of 2012), if your desire really is to get better than I just can't see the justification of not hiring someone else who has a consistently better pedigree.

Instead, we went the "boy's club" route and re-united old buddies. You know, I could totally understand a coach wanting to be comfortable with the guys he's going to be around a whole lot, so I get that Gruden preferred Haslett based on their history... but it was wrong and still wrong. At some point, Gruden had to say to himself that retaining Haslett when there were clearly better options out there wouldn't be the best thing for the team, even if it was more comfortable for him. It's nice to have a comfort level with each other and feel like you get each other, but if you're losing in the process it means nothing.

What has this comfort brought us other than another year of what looks to be porous defense? I'm sorry, but Gruden and Allen were dead wrong on this. Now, I'm sure they'll get it right and fire him at the end of the year, but I just can't help but be angry that they were willing to do this in the first place. Especially after Allen talked about "coaches who understand the value of time in the NFL and develop players quick enough", right after he fired Mike. He said this and then gave Haslett another friggin year to poop on the fans. It's ridiculous.

My biggest problem with Haslett is that he takes way too long to adjust. To his credit, he actually does adjust and it's probably why he's able to keep his job, but he simply doesn't do it in time. So, I'm sure when the playoffs are off the table our defense will look pretty good and people will say "Haslett is getting it". During games, he simply refuses to adjust drive to drive, but will always come out at half-time making the obvious adjustments all of us can see needed to be made. The Seahawks game was the perfect example. Why the heck did it take until the second half for us to realize that Russel Wilson was taking advantage of our over-pursuing? Why didn't that change occur immediately after the first drive? Nope, let's let them do it over and over and over and then we'll fix it at half time.
 
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eh...we need an o-line first and foremost. I don't see the mystery in this - it's obvious as all get out. these guys get outplayed by bigger, quicker, physical defenses.

there's another sneaking suspicion that I have avoided voicing: so many repeat mistakes......so many errors (not penalties..errors) that look like "thinking" mistakes.....do we have too many guys that just can't play to the speed of the game (putting the matter politely)?
 

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