Haslett: Poor Hire?

[fansince62]

Om hit the nail on the head on waiting this out and shared responsibility...but inadvertantly raised the real concern in all of this: the personnel strategy being followed by Allen/Shanny. but we've discussed this in other threads.

 

[Om]

The "real concern" (personnel stragegy) is part and parcel of the waiting it out and shared responsibility idea, Al.

Shanahan and Allen sat down and mapped out a strategy when Shan was hired. We don't know what that strategy was or what time frame they set for various components.

Nor do we know all the circumstances that have played out since then that have affected the course/timeframe, etc., and what course adjustments they've had to make along the way.

It takes a couple of years to really start to get a handle. Hell, at this point in Zorn's first year the team was 6-4 and Jason Campbell was still being discussed as an MVP candidate.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Om, I can understand that POV and its how I used to think as well. I would like to know what exactly the thought process was. Because I gotta tell you, that single decision combined with his defences in the past are the single reason im no longer enamoured of him.

Shanny is an Offencive coordinator, OC's jobs are quite different from DC and no smart ass I know you are thinking, "thanks captain obvious" but in some essential ways its different on a basic level and until a guy has done both its tough to explain.

for example, Offence takes time to gell, you not only need a coherent plan and philosophy to match your players skills but you need a big picture outlook, Offence adjusts slightly from game to game but the philosophy doesnt chnage nor should it, if its a sound offence it should give you multiple ways to win. we know it takes time and you need to be very specific in what players you get as offencive skillsets are very very specialised, ie a running back may be awesome in one type of offence and be terrible in another. A wideout who runs great fly patterns may not run good slants.teams dont go from base west coast principles to run and shoot to power offence in the span of a game. Olines take time to learn to play together.

Now defence is completely different animal, you dont build your defence with an eye for next year, you build it for the players you have NOW, you literally go with what you got.
Defence is all about 3 things preparation, instinct and muscle memory, you dont read and react in todays NFL BECAUSE THE PLAYERS ARE TOO FAST you dont have time, you have a presnap read you have how your man plays and you attack accordingly, this is why film prep is so important and why some players who are very instinctive do well despite not having great measurables. Its also IMHO why some 3-4 schemes are so succsessful, they dont waste time looking to see what the offence is doing it just attacks.

as a dt, I was always taught to " fight the pressure" so if the Olineman was blocking me left I knew that the majority of the time the ball was going right. In the NFL it even more like that, you get a quick pre snap read but once the ball is snapped if you arent prepared (from game planning and film watching) then basically you are guessing based solely on how you get blocked.

its the same for dbs, a db doesnt just read his man, he reads the pattern of the man beside him (if in zone) for instance a well coached Db knows that if a wideout runs an out its a good chance the slot will run a fly or seam if the wideout runs an in theres a solid chance the slot runs an out or a wheel.(obviously depending on the offence which is where film comes in to play)

A defence may run different formations and suddenly change its base philosophy for a game depending on the team, like when we played vick, conventional wisdom says that when playing a mobile qb you force him to beat you passing, so you play a 2 deep zone and spy on him with either a LB or DB., HOWEVER, a guy like Vick actually can pass if he gets in a rythym and its been known for quite some time that to beat him you are better off attacking him, get after him right away with the blitz and mix up man and zone because he doesnt makes his reads as quickly that way. we did the latter the first time we played, we did the former the last time we played them.

where I get irked with this 3-4 and haslett is we are ignoring the absolute basic rule of defencive football, PUT YOUR BEST PLAYERS IN THE BEST POSITION TO MAKE PLAYS. so far I have seen us lining up in extremely unsound formations, (when in a 3 man front against a good running team you CANNOT leave 3 linemen in a 3-4 wide alignment without blitzing at least one preferably 2 people) we have also done overloads where we line up 4 players on one side and 2 on the other, thats fine if you adjust in the backfield but on some occassions we did not. and dont get me started on the walkaround or amoeba crap.

I would love NFL coach film access, they get film broken down into down and distance, they get situational film already broken down for them, they even get individual film on each position available to them, so to me its inexcusable for them to be so far wrong so often especially when some fat guy on a couch a thousand miles away sees it clearly.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Ryman, I appreciate you taking the time to give us all a defensive lesson, but the truth is--with all due respect--if I have to choose between your interpretations of what you see on TV and what Mike Shanahan and Jim Haslett see 24/7/365 as coaches at the top of their profession, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the pros.

I have two big questions I intend to seek answers to over the next year or two.

1) Why Shanahan favors the 3-4 so strongly.

2) What he knew about Haslett that convinced him Has was the man for the job.

The rest of it--the implementation of the change personnel-wise; whether or not Haslet is at least above average in gameplanning, playcalling and in-game adjustments--we can talk about until we're blue in the face, but we'll still just be exchanging opinions based on probably less than 25% of the knowledge we'd need to fully assess any of it.

I used to love to do that when I first stumbled on message boards about 10 years ago. Today not so much. The forehead starts to get a little sore when you've beaten it against brick walls that long.

I googled Haslett and found this thread, I don't hate to say I told you so and im starting to wonder if I should send the skins a resume and ask for some money and access to film to do some consulting lol

 

[Boone]

Daddy used to tell me even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile

 

[Fear The Spear]

Daddy used to tell me even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile

Are we talking about Haslett or Ryman ?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

well I suppose i could start googling every time I was prescient regarding these moves but that would get old, it suffices for me to say I told you so. lol again how does some dude on a couch in Canada with no access to film make such accurate predictions when guys with all the advanantages of NFL quality film and scouting reports do not? and obviously IM not the only one , I didnt even start the thread. lol

what really irks me is that we wasted time with what should have been a no brainer. I wasnt just throwing crap at the wall here either, I think I was pretty detailed in why I was right and Shanny was wrong.

 

[Dead Money]

You love you some you. That hasn't changed since 2010

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

thats because im awesome

 

[Fear The Spear]

You love you some you. That hasn't changed since 2010

No, he loves you more. Because he cares enough about you, to spread his greatness into your life.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

see Fear understands, I am like a fatter Paler Ghandi. but with football

 

[Henry]

it suffices for me to say I told you so

I beg to differ. You did that in the other thread you bumped.

 

[Ax]

how does some dude on a couch in Canada with no access to film make such accurate predictions when guys with all the advanantages of NFL quality film and scouting reports do not?

The bigger question is, why do you completely waste your life?
You could be a gazillionaire, yet you choose to lay on a couch, in Canada.

How is it that you find autofellatio more appealing, or financially beneficial?

Or is it a fear of failing, in the real world?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Daddy used to tell me even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile

Are we talking about Haslett or Ryman ?

Okay, this made me LOL very loudly at work this morning. Thankfully I'm the only one here this early.

The defense is truly atrocious, and at this point, I'm not really sure who to blame. Would Wade Phillips be struggling this mightily with the same cast & injuries? Would he have done better with the fully-healthy version? Parcells? Belicheat? Or are the players on this roster just miserable failures? I don't know, and I don't know how to fix it.

I do think Haslett has done enough to lose his job this offseason, even with the injuries. I think Kyle Shanahan needs a wake up call as well - the defense is NOT getting it done, you need to maintain ball control and keep them off the field!

Anyway, at the end of the day, we all suffer. Even continuous self back-pats aren't enough to cover up the poor onfield results for Ryman, I'd imagine.

 

[CounterTrey]

Wait...this thread is from 2009 and Ryman is patting himself on the back for being right about a stupid football post from 4 years ago? That's (the fact that this matters to me enough to waste keystrokes bandwidth and time googling and posting it) something I'd be hiding not trumpeting from the highest heights. So you were right...so what?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

umm apprently you cant read, this was an argument, in which I was right, and not just a little bit right but resoundingly right, and its pissing me off that I was right in 2009 and what year is it now? and we are dealing with THE EXACT SAME ISSUES. yet there are still people on the forum making the same stupid " lets be patient" arguments. basically what this is less of an I told you so, more of I told you so already and shouldnt need to tell you so again.

 

[Henry]

basically what this is less of an I told you so, more of I told you so already and shouldnt need to tell you so again.

Er ... you don't.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

for some of you, no, for those who are preaching patience, obviously.

 

[Bulldog]

the biggest mistake Shanahan made was coming here in 2010 and moving to a 3-4 on defense despite the fact the defense was still decent in the 4-3 and a rebuild on the offensive side of the ball was more immediately needed.

but he decided to fight a 'two front war' by overhauling both sides of the LOS at the same time and there were simply not enough draft picks or money under the cap to assemble a solid team in reasonable time.

Now we are like the Browns or Rams in building from scratch in 2011.

That's why I keep referring to Year 1 or the 'new' rebuild.

Drafting Griffin and getting Morris as a surprise pick to be an immediate contributor are some of the FIRST steps to getting back to being relevant in the NFL, not the LAST few steps as some had hoped.

This team overall is not yet ready to compete on that level.

 

[Primus Porcus]

So does this thread mean that in 2 years, you're going to bump it talking about how you said the O-line was horrible... Come on dude, this is really lame.

If you would stop looking at yourself in the mirror, and actually take the time to think about what you're posting, you might see that a lot of people will agree with you, or at least have an honest and real conversation with you. They will do this without you having to point out threads, or make off the wall comments just to get a reaction.

I've been quiet on this board for a while, and my post count is low, but you're really turning off a positive conversation with the way you post, and in all honesty, it's ruining a lot of good thread. Just my opinion... and I'm sure I'll get to hear yours very shortly.