Griffin OUT for Saturday's Game

[SkinsOrlando]

If this were any other player in the league it'd seem very odd, it's magnified because of the cluster**** of an organization we've become and the amount of drama either perpetuated by the media or by the teams actions themselves. I've reached the point as I said in chat during last weeks game that this reminds me of Cunningham v.2, if the media existed today like it did then it'd be no different, Randall was outspoken, branded his image and did not get along with his coach. Upon leaving Philly and getting a shot in Minny his talent was maximized. I'd love for RG3 to succeed here, I don't see it, he needs to get away from the circus as does the team at this point. I still want to see him start the first 4 games just to see if there's any glimmer of hope left for him here, we're not a playoff team this year either way so might as well give it one more shot.

 

[CounterTrey]

[video]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000514192/Kurt-Warner-diagnoses-why-RGIII-is-struggling[/video]

 

[CounterTrey]

I don't want to sound dramatic - but this could signal the beginning of the end for Griffin. He can't play the last two pre-season games, team says they feel like they have to start the guy who has gotten the preparation, and - if all goes well, there's no turning back.

Maybe I'm projecting - I don't know.

But this feels weird. I just don't buy the guy practiced all week but suddenly can't pass the neurology exam.

Something smells in the state of Denmark.

Someone's lying here either the team or the doctor or now both. Standard concussion protocol has him being rested with no stress or exertion of any kind if he has a concussion. They don't even want you reading a computer and certainly NO repeat NO physical activity. So it reeked when they allowed him to practice the next day dn said the Doc cleared him. Pffft no way, they doc couldn't even evaluate hi, it hadn't been long enough from the initial concussion. Even so if actually had a concussion that Doc is mandated to wait a week minimum before re-evaluating.

So either he didn't have a concussion and that was a lie, or he did and the team lied about the Doc clearing him the next day. Of course the third option is the Doc took a payoff and cleared him but I'd need evidence to buy that.

So glad I gave up my season tix....what a joke.

 

[Boone]

Thanks for sharing CT. Pretty reasonable take there by Warner.

 

[Boone]

Having slept on it (and let some of that Sculpin I drank last night wear off!) I still don't know what to make of this. The team email we received was very short and succinct. I'm sure there will be more information coming today in pressers and it'll be interesting to see what lead to this reversal.

I believe Anthony Casolaro is the official head team physician - the team email was a statement by 'NFL Independent Neurologist Robert N. Kurtzke' and said the decision was made with Casolaro and an unnamed 'Neuropsychologist'. It does sound like they initially thought he'd be a go and upon additional review of info changed their mind. I wonder if Griffin has 'not been acting right' at times this week or if additional symptoms have popped up? We have to remember this isn't like a sprained knee - the symptoms can be intermittent and involve more than just standard neuro checks. It's possible this isn't some kind of power play and that he really isn't safe to play tonight. That's probably the more reasonable conclusion but we are so beaten down as a fanbase we see boogeymen everywhere.

 

[MikeSr619]

I'm just bummed. It's getting harder and harder to defend this team

 

[CounterTrey]

The problem I have with that Boone is that standard Concussion protocol that is mandated by every medical organization out there now was not followed. They diagnosed a concussion right after the game. That means no physical activity of any kind and a Doctor CAN'T clear them until a week later. So he either didn't have a concussion and this is all a trumped up lie now, or he had one and the team (surprise surprise!) screwed up and didn't follow protocol and made him worse by allowing him to practice and do other things like post on twitter and play on computers.

 

[Boone]

Honestly Mike, I'm not sure there's anything to either 'defend' or 'attack' here no matter how anyone feels about Griffin. He took some big hits, likely had a concussion, and I am going to take the announcement that he's not ready to play at face value. I don't think his game status has anything to do with anything other than what the Dr.'s involved feel is safe. Maybe I'm naive, but that's what it sounds like to me. It's just more bad luck for Griffin. But personally, I think it would be a lot worse for him to take another beating.

 

[MikeSr619]

There is plenty to attack in my opinion. This team, once again, looks ridiculous and like it's being run by clowns because they keep stepping on their own toes over one player

Instead of just being honest and benching the kid or saying he was really concussed, they allowed him to be cleared and fully practice before backtracking.

I think it's likely Griffin knew something was up and that's why he didn't answer the question at the podium.

At this point gruden is looking more like Zorn than like his brother. It's almost time to cut bait on him because he's going to do this in the locker room again if we don't nip this quickly.

 

[Boone]

The problem I have with that Boone is that standard Concussion protocol that is mandated by every medical organization out there now was not followed. They diagnosed a concussion right after the game. That means no physical activity of any kind and a Doctor CAN'T clear them until a week later. So he either didn't have a concussion and this is all a trumped up lie now, or he had one and the team (surprise surprise!) screwed up and didn't follow protocol and made him worse by allowing him to practice and do other things like post on twitter and play on computers.

I don't know what the fine print rules are relative to the concussion protocol. I've never seen the rules up close. So I can't comment on whether the team followed the rules or not. But I do think you are oversimplifying the diagnostic part. Concussions are diagnosed based on a combination of some objective and some subjective assessment criteria. I don't think it's accurate to characterize it as 'you either have a concussion or you don't' - in fact, the severity of a head injury is on an arc that encompasses all kinds of symptoms, it's not a completely measurable and definable injury.

 

[Boone]

There is plenty to attack in my opinion. This team, once again, looks ridiculous and like it's being run by clowns because they keep stepping on their own toes over one player

Instead of just being honest and benching the kid or saying he was really concussed, they allowed him to be cleared and fully practice before backtracking.

I think it's likely Griffin knew something was up and that's why he didn't answer the question at the podium.

At this point gruden is looking more like Zorn than like his brother. It's almost time to cut bait on him because he's going to do this in the locker room again if we don't nip this quickly.

I get the suspicions you are verbalizing here - but not knowing what the conversations and facts are as the week progressed, I don't think anyone can say whether the team bungled this or handled it 100% appropriately. I really don't. And I'm not personally prepared to conclude that this outcome is somehow the result of the team or Gruden manipulating the process to make sure Griffin wasn't available so they can start the player they really prefer to. It may be true, but I just don't see anything that really would be considered evidence of that.

All we can do is see how this plays out. Who knows - maybe it will be a good thing. I will say this - I saw nothing this week (particularly not in terms of Griffin's attitude and affect this week) that gave me confidence RG3 was super ready to jump back into the fray.

 

[MikeSr619]

I'm verbalizing what I saw happen.

He was cleared
He was allowed to practice fully
He was named the starter
He was pulled due to problem 1

That is not proper concussion protocol, it isn't how you handle a player, or an organization.

Go cousins...hopefully gruden doesn't get you hurt and try to force you to start again only to further injure you the next week.

 

[Henry]

The problem here, in my opinion, is that both the NFL and the team have lied so much so often about so many things that it's almost impossible for me to take anything either organization says at face value anymore.

Boone, I know you are in the medical profession and you've said several times you just can't see a doctor lying, and I completely respect that (and you). However, to that I can only say I'm a football fan and I've watched the NFL medical experts straight-up lie to my face for decades. I wouldn't put anything past the league or it's medical professionals, for any reason. I have no idea what the hell is going on in this particular case, but assuming that the integrity of league-employed medical staff is suddenly rock solid is not the first place I go.

 

[Boone]

I'm verbalizing what I saw happen.

He was cleared
He was allowed to practice fully
He was named the starter
He was pulled due to problem 1

That is not proper concussion protocol, it isn't how you handle a player, or an organization.

Go cousins...hopefully gruden doesn't get you hurt and try to force you to start again only to further injure you the next week.

So, let's say Griffin initially passed the protocol exam, but symptoms developed during the week that called his health into question - and btw, that is entirely possible - are you saying the team should put him out there anyway simple because earlier in the week he looked okay?

This isn't an ACL guys. You can't x-ray his head and diagnose him. It's diagnosed based on a cluster of symptoms that can wax and wane post injury. That's why saying 'they cleared him and he was okay' is not really a relevant statement.

 

[Cycleans]

Concussion protocol is watched over and scrutinized daily by the Media, The NFL and it's legal council...I find it hard to believe there is anything shady going on. One thing is clear, there is a witch hunt going on amongst the fans and the media. Why does there always have to be a nefarious purpose to everything that happens to Griffin? Fans on this board go on and say things like he's beaten, he's defeated. he's not right on camera, but somehow there isn't room to admit his clearance a day or two ago might have missed something...IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Instead we get this...

 

[Boone]

The problem here, in my opinion, is that both the NFL and the team have lied so much so often about so many things that it's almost impossible for me to take anything either organization says at face value anymore.

Boone, I know you are in the medical profession and you've said several times you just can't see a doctor lying, and I completely respect that (and you). However, to that I can only say I'm a football fan and I've watched the NFL medical experts straight-up lie to my face for decades. I wouldn't put anything past the league or it's medical professionals, for any reason. I have no idea what the hell is going on in this particular case, but assuming that the integrity of league-employed medical staff is suddenly rock solid is not the first place I go.

I hear you. I don't think this is even at the crux of the issue though. What some seem to be saying is that this is part of some kind of plan to remove Griffin as starter. But at the same time, folks argue that it's Snyder who is forcing Griffin on Gruden. Well - it's SNYDER who would have the power to potentially influence medical staff decisions, not Gruden, right? So what exactly are folks implying/suggesting is going on here, other than the most logical explanation that the medical staff doesn't like what it's seeing from Griffin as the week progressed???

 

[CounterTrey]

I don't know what the fine print rules are relative to the concussion protocol. I've never seen the rules up close. So I can't comment on whether the team followed the rules or not. But I do think you are oversimplifying the diagnostic part. Concussions are diagnosed based on a combination of some objective and some subjective assessment criteria. I don't think it's accurate to characterize it as 'you either have a concussion or you don't' - in fact, the severity of a head injury is on an arc that encompasses all kinds of symptoms, it's not a completely measurable and definable injury.

Right but they DID diagnose a concussion, and based on that alone a certain protocol was mandated that absolutely was NOT followed with him the following day. Someone is lying.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Concussion protocol is watched over and scrutinized daily by the Media, The NFL and it's legal council...I find it hard to believe there is anything shady going on. One thing is clear, there is a witch hunt going on amongst the fans and the media. Why does there always have to be a nefarious purpose to everything that happens to Griffin? Fans on this board go on and say things like he's beaten, he's defeated. he's not right on camera, but somehow there isn't room to admit his clearance a day or two ago might have missed something...IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Instead we get this...

ESPN reported this morning that apparently there are multiple parts of this testing. There's the face to face testing by a Neurosurgeon and some sort of computer analysis. That a player can pass all the face to face testing but some sort of result with the computer can come up low. I don't know the details by any stretch but I guess it can make sense? I have a hard time believing that Gruden would be able to get the team doctors, the neurosurgeon, Scot, and now ESPN all on the same page to be burning Griffin. If anyone needs to be scrutinized here, it could be the team DR for clearing him.

People say Gruden wants Griffin gone, yet when he plays him based on what team DRs said and it comes out that the diagnosis was wrong, it some how comes back to Gruden? My initial reaction last night was that Gruden just benched Griffin, but the more I think about it, it all just doesn't add up to Gruden being the one pulling the trigger here.... at least in my opinion.

 

[TomE]

"Did he have one or not... was it a ruse to get Griff off the podium after the game and later on, evasive answers to the situation when he finally did get to talk... blah blah."

The concussion thing was batted around so much this week on the radio that I tired of hearing about it and went back to my rock-n-roll station full time.

Whatever the reasons for Griff being put on the shelf, conspiracy or medical, is irrelevant for tonight's game.

Let's take a look, see if Kirk can pull it off and give some of us some sort of comfort looking ahead to the season.

If Griff is done here, sorry, it's just another savior to goat for this team and our experience with this scenario should have left us 'comfortably numb' by now. The kid has suffered through broken hero 'worship', mismanaged marketing advice, physical deterioration and failed expectations. It just might be time for him to move on. (his comfort area is Texas, right?)

Scenarios?

Vick to Foles wouldn't be bad, Farve to Rodgers or Bledsoe to Brady would be great
McNabb to Beck.... our typical

 

[MikeSr619]

Good ol bspn. If there are multiple parts to the concussion testing why was he allowed to go back to practice if he wasn't fully cleared?

If they messed up and allowed a player back on the field who shouldn't have been they could be looking at a lawsuit. This is the type of things the nfl is supposed to be stopping