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Fear The Spear

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It almost seems like if we sent Nick Sundberg as the player, that people would be like "WTF ?!?! We sent them the #1 rated Long Snapper in the league ? He has a Madden rating of 98.4 !!! The absolute BEST rating of any long snapper in the league. We got fleeced !!"
 

SilentThreat

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Fuller was taken in the third round. He started in the slot, not outside. We just traded for a perennial pro bowl QB and gave up a third round slot corner who has had one pretty good (not great, pretty good) year - a starter for all of one season.
While I agree your point that Smith is valuable, Fuller graded out as the best slot corner in the league this past year in multiple categories. Fuller may end up being a very important piece of a puzzle... Maybe not a corner piece, but a valuable one non the less.
 

SilentThreat

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It almost seems like if we sent Nick Sundberg as the player, that people would be like "WTF ?!?! We sent them the #1 rated Long Snapper in the league ? He has a Madden rating of 98.4 !!! The absolute BEST rating of any long snapper in the league. We got fleeced !!"
LoL, I think a lot of the angst has to do with giving up a good, young, inexpensive piece that we drafted. I hate Fuller leaving, but it does not outweigh how positive I feel about having Smith under center, so I'm in favor of the move, but Fuller could be good...
 

Burgundy Burner

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PFF grades are not valued by coaches in the NFL at all. Yes, the slot corner had a good season. However, let's hold off on his bust in Canton. We'll see where everyone is in a few years.
 

Burgundy Burner

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However, I do think Fuller will be a very good CB for many years. Great? Not sure. Need to see what he can do on the outside.
 

redskins26

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How much of KF's success was due to KF, and how much of his success was due to Torrian Gray.
Maybe, just maybe, Gray is a Cornerback-Building-Machine.

Think about this.
Fuller was drafted in 2016 and had a rough rookie campaign.
Gray was hired before the 2017 season, the same single season, that Fuller broke out and rose to the top.

Coincidence ?
Gray was his DB coach in college. From what I hear is Fuller lobied for him to come here. Gray put a high number of players in the nfl over 12 years or so at VT. I'm hoping the secondary keeps improving under him
 

Ax

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BTW BB, did you see my question in the Random Thoughts thread concerning the tag and trade scenarios.

I realize that using the franchise tag in this endeavor seems impossible to pull off. Though I still maintain that if there is a way to work it correctly, it would be in the teams interest to do so.

In that light, my question was, could we Transition tag The Greedy Lying Bastard, and depending on the offer sheet he'd sign with the new perspective team, could we match it, and then trade him to that team, or another, willing to give more.

Doesn't #8 have to sign the offer sheet from whatever team?

Wouldn't us matching it give us the right to trade him, and that contract, to whomever we could work a deal out with?

What are the risks/ramifications of such a scenario?

PS ~ Did I ask where our damn surprise is? :)
 

Chris

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BTW BB, did you see my question in the Random Thoughts thread concerning the tag and trade scenarios.

I realize that using the franchise tag in this endeavor seems impossible to pull off. Though I still maintain that if there is a way to work it correctly, it would be in the teams interest to do so.

In that light, my question was, could we Transition tag The Greedy Lying Bastard, and depending on the offer sheet he'd sign with the new perspective team, could we match it, and then trade him to that team, or another, willing to give more.

Doesn't #8 have to sign the offer sheet from whatever team?

Wouldn't us matching it give us the right to trade him, and that contract, to whomever we could work a deal out with?

What are the risks/ramifications of such a scenario?

PS ~ Did I ask where our damn surprise is? :)
If the Redskins transition tag Cousins…The team would have to slap the tag on the player on March 6th. The new league year begins on March 14th. As long as Cousins doesn't sign the transition tag, he would become a free agent with limited rights on March 14th. Make no mistake about it, he would not sign that transition tag before the start of free agency. What does this mean? Cousins and his agent could go seek a long-term deal from another team. Let's say he gets a five-year, $125-million deal from Denver. Washington could not and would not want to match that. He would then become Denver's new starting quarterback. The kicker here, though, is that the Redskins would then likely lose that third-round pick they are currently getting back for him if he walks in free agency. So they'd get nothing back for him. Also, the Redskins wouldn't be able to spend the $28M committed to Cousins on the transition tag until he finalized his deal in Denver.
 

SilentThreat

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BTW BB, did you see my question in the Random Thoughts thread concerning the tag and trade scenarios.

I realize that using the franchise tag in this endeavor seems impossible to pull off. Though I still maintain that if there is a way to work it correctly, it would be in the teams interest to do so.

In that light, my question was, could we Transition tag The Greedy Lying Bastard, and depending on the offer sheet he'd sign with the new perspective team, could we match it, and then trade him to that team, or another, willing to give more.

Doesn't #8 have to sign the offer sheet from whatever team?

Wouldn't us matching it give us the right to trade him, and that contract, to whomever we could work a deal out with?

What are the risks/ramifications of such a scenario?

PS ~ Did I ask where our damn surprise is? :)
The short answer is YES, we can apply the transition tag to him and still hold some cards. There's a few ways it can go down.

1. The EASY way - We communicate with Kirk, let him know the plan that we are going to apply the transition tag to him, allow him to negotiate a deal with another team that is fitting to him. He signs the transition tag and begins negotiations with other teams. Once he agrees to a deal, we will work out a trade with that team, accept the offer of the contract, and trade him to team X. The hope is that this takes place quickly once were out of collusion possible times. The best scenario would take about a day max, once the new league year starts.

2. THe LESS EASY way - We transition tag Kirk, he signs the transition tag, begins negotiations with other teams, drags his feet a little bit, and we do end up trading him.... but it takes about a week or so.

3. The BAD way - We apply the transition tag, Kirk decides to hold out. This could go on for a few weeks.. He then decides he's going to play ball and signs the tag. At that point, someone like Cleveland or NYJ with a ton of cap space walk in and offer him a deal that would exceed our salary cap... I've heard multiple stances on this, that we could still absorb it as long as we get back below the cap before the 'cap deadline.' I do wonder if the NFL or the NFLPA would get involved, preventing us from signing a deal that, even temporarily, would allow us to exceed the cap.

4. The WORST way - We apply the transition tag, Kirk signs it, then makes it clear that he's not going to accept any other offers in negotiations and were stuck with his $28 mil salary, or we have to offload him for nothing because trade value for a $28 mil deal for 1 season with no extension is minimal.

5. The MEH way - We tag Kirk, he signs, someone offers, he accepts, we don't match, Kirk walks with no compensation.


The biggest thing is the cap hit. Is it possible to have a roster that is in excess of the cap? If not, how much of a risk are we willing to take... potentially missing out on some possible key free agent pickups if this process has any sort of delays?
 

Ax

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Thanks Chris, and Silent Threat. Most of what you both say/post is what we all think we know. But we seem to find out something we didn't know, often. Whether it has to do with our team, or another. I think it's the teams responsibility to explore every option available, that makes sense. Certainly shouldn't risk hurting ourselves though. We'll see.

But if there's a way. One we don't know about yet. It'd be nice to get a little something more than just the relief that the whole saga is finally over.

Even though that is a major positive move. Guess I'm just trying to be a little greedy. You know, like our former starting QB.
 

DieselPwr44

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Question is, why would Cousins do anything to help Bruce Allen out?
 

Chris

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Or do anything to take draft picks or good players from his new team?

In this scenario Cousins is the Roadrunner and Allen is Wiley E. Meep meep.
 

Ax

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He wouldn't.
He never has.
He's never helped the "team" in any meaningful way.

I'm just curious if there is any possibility that we can somewhat control the situation. Talking about it doesn't hurt the team in any way.
 

Chris

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So, how is the Salary Cap calculated during the offseason, when team rosters can total up to a maximum of 90 players?

Obviously, it would be impossible for teams to fit all 90 players under the Salary Cap, so the CBA contains provisions that limit the Salary Cap calculation to the highest 51 Salary Cap numbers on the team and all signing (and option) bonus pro-rations and all rosters bonuses. This rule – the Rule of 51 – is in effect from the beginning of the league year in March until the first game of the regular season.
 

Ax

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So, if it's all as cut and dry as the cut&pastes suggest, then the team is not considering a tag & trade.
And the whole story alleging they are is just more fake news.
 

DieselPwr44

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I'm just curious if there is any possibility that we can somewhat control the situation. Talking about it doesn't hurt the team in any way.
I agree. But from a team stand point, you talk about this behind closed doors and not in the public/media.

All they've done here is make themselves look silly and vindictive in the public eye.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He. Will. NEVER. Sign. It. Watch. Why do you think this group, which has painted themselves into this corner on cascading badwill and bad assumptions, is suddenly gonna pull off a miracle? <a href="https://t.co/lzsXLtdUmH">https://t.co/lzsXLtdUmH</a></p>— Steve Czaban (@czabe) <a href="https://twitter.com/czabe/status/960537851891978240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 5, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Ax

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I agree. But from a team stand point, you talk about this behind closed doors and not in the public/media.

All they've done here is make themselves look silly and vindictive in the public eye.
I haven't heard the team say anything in public about it.

I'm not surprised, if it's even really true or not, that some scumbag reporter wouldn't run the story just for fun.

Oh, and Czaban is as big a anti-Redskin douchebag as there has ever been. After calling Gibbs a liar, he can eat shit and die for all I care.
Nothing he says about the team interests me at all.
 

SilentThreat

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So, if it's all as cut and dry as the cut&pastes suggest, then the team is not considering a tag & trade.
And the whole story alleging they are is just more fake news.
We both know Bruce could have said to someone inside the building that 'lets see if it works' and someone ran to Schefter with it. It also could have been just Snydallen leaking to see if there is interested parties... see if maybe his phone rings and the option is out there.
 

SilentThreat

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I haven't heard the team say anything in public about it.

I'm not surprised, if it's even really true or not, that some scumbag reporter wouldn't run the story just for fun.

Oh, and Czaban is as big a anti-Redskin douchebag as there has ever been. After calling Gibbs a liar, he can eat shit and die for all I care.
Nothing he says about the team interests me at all.
very valid point... I've heard 'reports' but nothing from the team.
 

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