Eric Bieniemy- OC

Boone said:
I think the whole ‘he’s no better than Scott Turner’ thing may be supportable if you’re just looking at stats. But would Sam Howell look anywhere near this promising if they’d not brought EB in? I seriously question whether he would.
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I agree, but the issue I think is going to be that we KNOW Rivera is gone. I don't see EB being a HC candidate at this point, so is any new hire for the HC position going to want an incumbent OC.
It feels like EBs OC performance hasn't been 'blow me away' amazing, so it's hard to justify keeping him other than the Howell connection.

And are we saying that we couldn't find another good mentor for Howell?
 
Just to clarify...

If this was like Year 1 of the Rivera Era, and the first year of a rebuild, I would definitely give EB the benefit of a second year at OC. I do believe he's learning the job on the fly a little as an OC rookie, and I think there's promise there.

But it's not year one, and I think his fate is going to be linked to Rivera's.

I think it was a good roll of the dice for them both. Rivera needed fresh blood and EB needed to prove himself. It's just not really worked out for a number of reasons. I think if we'd had a decent O-Line we'd be thinking very very differently. With protection, I think the already impressive Sam would be even better. Less sacks, less pressure, less interceptions, and maybe more points scored. He's still a rookie (basically) but we really did him no favors with this line. He's exceeding expectations in spite of it rather than because of it.

If we were consistently in higher scoring shootouts with some of our opponents (like we've been with the Eagles) then I think we'd look on EB a lot more favorably. (I'm assuming that our Defense is still terrible under Del Rio in this scenario, but his performance is a whole different forum thread!)
 
I wasn’t proposing he be the next HC - just talking about this season. I think EB could be a very good OC and he has something special going with Howell. I would have no issue if a new HC wanted to continue with him. I think it is unlikely to happen though.
 
I read somewhere on Twitter that there are 2 kinds of OCs - play callers and game callers. The post suggested that EB is a play caller and I think I agree with that.

I don't think EB is calling plays in the first quarter with an eye to setting things up for the 4th quarter. Honestly, his play calling feels very "in the moment" to me, aimed at doing something on this particular play. His seems to be a singular focus, playing the play in front of him and only the play in front of him.

I think play callers can be successful in the NFL but I think the true greats are always doing two things at once - playing the play in front of them and setting up a play in the future.
 
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This is his first season of independent playcalling ever so I think categorizing him might be a little premature. Who knows what he will or won’t be able to do?
 
I wasn't suggesting he is the finished product, Boone. Guys can always grow and improve. I believe that for coaches as well as players.

My post was more an evaluation of where EB is right now. Maybe he takes that next step and moves on into being a game caller, but right now I think he is just a play caller.
 
As Bulldog just outlined on another thread, I think you have to look at EB and the entire offense’s performance in context of what they are navigating. Crappy field position because the are usually getting the ball after the D gives up a score, quickly down and often by double digits, and getting almost no short fields from turnovers. If they want to score they’ve got to go 80 yds and make no mistakes. I think that is a huge factor in playcalling especially with a young QB.
 
What's the offense's identity? What is it they hang their hat on?

No clue....and I'm not sure he has one either.
 
Boone said:
I wasn’t proposing he be the next HC - just talking about this season. I think EB could be a very good OC and he has something special going with Howell. I would have no issue if a new HC wanted to continue with him. I think it is unlikely to happen though.
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I wasn't either.

I'm just hearing a lot of buzz around what happens if Rivera is fired now.

Would EB be made interim HC?
If so, would that be a poisoned chalice as Harris and co are likely to want to go recruiting?
And if, like you say, a new HC comes in would he want to keep EB? (doubtful).

I wouldn't have an issue if he stayed. As I said up top, I think he's still learning in the role and it would be interesting to see him get a second year to see how he develops, especially with Howell.
 
Boone said:
As Bulldog just outlined on another thread, I think you have to look at EB and the entire offense’s performance in context of what they are navigating. Crappy field position because the are usually getting the ball after the D gives up a score, quickly down and often by double digits, and getting almost no short fields from turnovers. If they want to score they’ve got to go 80 yds and make no mistakes. I think that is a huge factor in playcalling especially with a young QB.
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I'd agree with this. There has been a VERY slim margin for error for the offense.
Scott Turner benefitted last year from a Defense that was A LOT better in terms of holding an opposition in check.
This year we're leaking big plays and not creating turnovers.

I think my biggest criticism, is that our offensive output doesn't really improve as the game goes on. Currently we average 9.7points per game in the 1st half and 9.8 in the second half. Which would imply to me that our offense doesn't adjust well to opposing Defenses within games.

I also don't know without looking it up, but there seems to have been a bunch of games where we've either led at the half, or been right there. Like yesterdays game. 13-10 at half time, but we then couldn't score in the second half as the D imploded. Final score 45-10.
 
It’s very difficult to evaluate younger players on a bad team.

Runners don’t get holes to exploit.

Passers don’t get time to throw or don’t have sure handed TEs and WRs to make plays.

Young DL with promise are doubled because no one fears the other rushers.

Promising younger corners get no rush support and are expected to cover for 4-5 seconds.

So, even guys that a new GM will keep and build with may not look great right now.

I remember Troy Aikman going 0-11 in Dallas and finishing with 9 touchdowns and a whopping 18 interceptions in 11 starts.

Was that a true measure of his worth?

I also remember Monte Coleman commenting after beating Dallas 30-7 that this game was not a referendum on Aikman and in his mind Aikman had the talent to do some amazing things in the NFL.

That’s not what you heard from the network studio guys that were yucking it up about the blowout and how rash Jones was to fire Tom Landry.

But Coleman saw what they did not.
 
On a day that called for running and quick game passing, EB insisted on taking deep shots and going away from a run game, that when given a chance, proved it was somewhat successful.

Plus, he still insists on power running out of the shotgun, which has failed most times.

As much as he was talking about progress and growth, the action on the field tells another story. He's just not good enough.
 
I've kept thinking he'd end up making changes and not seeing if he can set the record for passes thrown in a season. There are times I wonder how much more productive Howell could be if defenses didn't expect him to pass ALL the time.
 
I would now put it at 90 percent that EB is gone.
I am 100 percent in the 90 percentile.
 
Traditionally it has always been that OCs help their young QB out but here we are nearing the end of the season and EB refuses to provide him with some kind of run game to take some of the weight of the offense off of him.

Disappointed in EB to say the least.
 
I think at this point of the season we can agree that no one really expected Howell to lead the NFL in attempts.

That for a 23 year old passer not named Dan Marino is usually a recipe for disaster.

CJ Stroud has done a remarkable job this year as a rookie and he seems to be the one to break the rule in terms of having the offense go through him as a younger player learning the league, but good HCs and OCs don't necessarily pattern after the exception to the rule.

Stroud has some better players on his team even if the talking heads don't recognize this on the NFL media show. He has Tunsil and some quality offensive linemen that allow him to set up and throw the ball from the pocket as well as move and throw off improvisation.

If Washington's coaching staff thought the Commanders had a legit pass blocking line to start the season after seeing them in training camp and the preseason, then that is just another reason they should all be fired.
 
One of my beefs with how things went down was that I feel like EB should've stood on the table during free agency and pre-draft and demanded Rivera address the OL in a significant way. If I were him, I might have even tried to make an OL rebuild a pre-condition to taking the job. He either didn't recognize the OL disaster that was about to come, or he didn't have the juice to get it addressed.

There were so many great arguments to making that our absolutel #1 roster priority and yet our efforts on that front were very underwhelming. That diminishes EB a little in my mind, particularly given he knew from the outset he'd have essentially a rookie (and a potentially pretty valuable one) under center in 2023.
 
Boone said:
One of my beefs with how things went down was that I feel like EB should've stood on the table during free agency and pre-draft and demanded Rivera address the OL in a significant way. If I were him, I might have even tried to make an OL rebuild a pre-condition to taking the job. He either didn't recognize the OL disaster that was about to come, or he didn't have the juice to get it addressed.

There were so many great arguments to making that our absolutel #1 roster priority and yet our efforts on that front were very underwhelming. That diminishes EB a little in my mind, particularly given he knew from the outset he'd have essentially a rookie (and a potentially pretty valuable one) under center in 2023.
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Maybe he did and his line in the sand was signing Wylie? 🤣
 
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