Eric Bieniemy- OC

[DieselPwr44]

So....7 games in as an OC with this team and where are we at on him?

Saw this last night and it's funny because I brought this up in the game chat after they had a 6 yd run on first down then immediately went empty backfield the next play: "Did Scott Turner really leave?"


With a shaky Oline , that apparently he signed off on at draft time, and a young Qb on his 7th start (in this offense), this is just one fan's thumbnail sketch of what he sees.

He's yet to prove that he knows how to scheme to protect his young Qb.
He's slow to adjust to what's happening on the field.
He doesn't value the run game at all and what that can do for the offense and pass pro.
Has a screen game that looks promising but for some reason, leaves it out of the gameplan every other week.
Fails to use the backs that he has- see above on screens/run game
Hasn't shown on a consistent basis that he can scheme guys open or scheme to feature a particular WR or TE.

I hope this doesn't come off as a knee jerk reaction. But seven games in and it's starting to look like there are reasons why the rest of the league wasn't ready to jump on Bieniemy as a hot HC prospect.

What is your take?

 

[Neophyte]

Tweet of the Season

 

[Henry]

With a shaky Oline , that apparently he signed off on at draft time, and a young Qb on his 7th start (in this offense), this is just one fan's thumbnail sketch of what he sees.

He's yet to prove that he knows how to scheme to protect his young Qb.
He's slow to adjust to what's happening on the field.
He doesn't value the run game at all and what that can do for the offense and pass pro.
Has a screen game that looks promising but for some reason, leaves it out of the gameplan every other week.
Fails to use the backs that he has- see above on screens/run game
Hasn't shown on a consistent basis that he can scheme guys open or scheme to feature a particular WR or TE.

I hope this doesn't come off as a knee jerk reaction. But seven games in and it's starting to look like there are reasons why the rest of the league wasn't ready to jump on Bieniemy as a hot HC prospect.

What is your take?

I was going to say this offense reminds me of the Spurrier years, but I think you just said that.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I was going to say this offense reminds me of the Spurrier years, but I think you just said that.

This is a big sadder because I have to see more potential in this WR corps than I saw in Jacquez Green, Reidell Anthony, and the crew they had together back then. Ditto for Shane Matthews and Danny Wuerffel. I do see some serious parallels in the usage of Patrick Ramsay and Sam Howell, and I may be starting to see the same happy feet signs that Ramsay exhibited. Overall, though, I think Sam has more talent which makes this show sadder to watch as well.

I think last week there was a lot of analysis about how Sam stays in the pocket too long, holds onto the ball too long. It was weird to me, suddenly seeing a mountain of blame being put on him (I guess it had been building in the previous couple of weeks too). If you want to win now in any way, shape, or form, you need to get creative in the running game and give defenses another dimension to think about. It just looks like EB doesn't have any connection to a running game. In some ways it's worse than Scott, because Scott had slightly more creativity in his running game (I think). We knew we weren't going anywhere with Scott, so no regrets there, but it's a shame that Ron chose an OC like this instead of one with more appreciation to balance. The Lions and Eagles come to mind. McVay, now that he got rid of Cam Akers, seems to be back to a more balanced approach. Kyle ALWAYS has balance. It's a list of teams that are succeeding, and even if/when they lose, they never feel like they are out. This team never felt like it had a chance yesterday at any point to me.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

Not sure we can fault EB for the O line, Rivera controls the roster, he selected two DB's in the first and second. Howell has his concerns, growing pains in the NFL but he is getting wrecked by sub par defenses. The Giants had 5 sacks on the season going into yesterdays game, and had 6. It's tough to know whether EB's scheme or lack thereof is the issue or if any scheme could work with this offensive, offensive line.

 

[Neophyte]

 

[burgold]

Not sure about Bienemy. At the beginning of the year, the offense seemed to be the only part working and generated that amazing 21 point plus come back. We've seen scores over 30, but when the team lays an egg, it's a rotten one. I put a lot of that onto our inability to block. Both our run game and pass pro look terrible so I'm assuming there's a talent issue going on. That said, I was screaming for roll outs, screens, anything... and when Howell did roll out he seemed more effective.

So, while I suspect the answer is all of the above, I think it's more of a talent problem than a coaching or execution problem.

 

[Neophyte]

The last couple of weeks have been a reality check for me and I've had to remind myself of a few things.

- first, this is EB's first experience in the Pros of being "the man" and running the offense. While he has worn the title, contributed to game-planning, and done a bit of play-calling, it has all been under Andy and with Andy shouldering the responsibility.
- second, the offense is only 7 games old. After 5 games of the Gibbs offense in DC, Joe threw the playbook out and started from scratch. That approach got him to 2-5 after 7 games. That with a veteran QB too.

Also, things I need to remind myself of that might not be so positive:

- EB was here in the spring when we signed Gates and Wylie. Presumably, he signed off them.
- EB was here on draft day when we drafted DBs in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Presumably, he signed off on those moves too.
- EB fired John Matsko - one of best O Line coaches in today's NFL. In his place, Ron and EB elevated Travelle Wharton from Asst O Line coach.

Things I'd be talking about to him if I were his manager - making adjustments earlier in games and doing a better job of preparing for the obvious.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

I'm confused by the terminology "signed off" especially with the draft. EB is not the boss, that's Rivera, EB does not have veto power over Rivera. There is no "signing off" when you don't have the authority to do diddly poo about it anyway.

 

[Neophyte]

Would you take the AHC/OC job here without at least some input into personnel decisions? I wouldn't and I have to believe that EB wouldn't either.

And to be clear, in my world - free agency + draft choices = personnel decisions

For us to take Forbes in the 1st and Martin in the 2nd, means this coaching staff had to be comfortable with an O Line starting lineup of Wylie, Cosmi, Gates, Charles, Leno. This was the plan and EB had to be okay with that plan.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

Del Rio has been with Rivera for quite some time, I'd wager his "input" might be higher on the list than EB's and I've taken jobs where my alleged "input" was welcomed during the interview but dwindled once the ink dried on the offer.

Please note: I'm not excusing our lackluster play on offense under EB, but I think we may be looking at things from a view point that might not have exited the way we believe it to.

 

[burgold]

Del Rio has been with Rivera for quite some time, I'd wager his "input" might be higher on the list than EB's and I've taken jobs where my alleged "input" was welcomed during the interview but dwindled once the ink dried on the offer.

Please note: I'm not excusing our lackluster play on offense under EB, but I think we may be looking at things from a view point that might not have exited the way we believe it to.

My suspicion is that EB did get input on the free agents, but didn't on the draft. It'd be pretty shitty for them to sign free agents that leave the OC in the dark and say, "Here. Work with this."
So EB probably thought that Gates and Wylie could hold down the fort. I doubt he really understood the lack of quality and depth here until practices started up and by then they had spent their wad.

 

[Boone]

Four things.

If Bienemy saw the state of last year's OL and didn't come to the conclusion we needed a big infusion of talent there, that is extremely concerning, since most fans recognized it.

If Bienemy did not pound the table for Rivera to use the first 2 or 3 picks to significantly address the OL issues, that is concerning. And don't tell me 'Rivera makes those decisions - EB had no control'. While that may be technically true, Rivera was desperate to find a good replacement for Scott Turner, EB had a lot of leverage. I find it difficult to believe he could not have prevailed on Rivera - aggressively - to go OL with at least the first 2 picks, particularly given we were going with a young, inexperienced QB as starter - even going as far as to make it a pre-condition of accepting the job.

Finally, if Bienemy did campaign for that and Rivera ran roughshod over him because he was bound and determined to get his guys (Forbes and Martin) - that is incompetence at an epic level.

I think Bienemy needs to start answering some tough questions, because his first independent OC gig is not going very well. I like the way he carries himself, but the truth is, the offense is only marginally better than Scott Turner's was because we have a young QB who actually has an NFL arm and occasionally looks like a potential top 10 QB. They honeymoon is over and whether you like EB or not, the idea he is ready to be a head coach looks pretty suspect right now.

 

[DieselPwr44]

I don't know who this is but if these stats are true? Hoo Boy......

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I wanted to give myself a few days so I didn't react emotionally. But the biggest problem I see with Bieniemy is that like Del Rio, it seems like he doesn't have a game plan going into a game. Last week was a prime example, but it's repeated itself from week 1. You have a QB getting crushed in the pocket, you are playing a D coordinator known for blitzing. How do you not come up with protections and plays to counter that? It took until the 3rd quarter before they started rolling Sam out of the pocket. That should have been in the plans from the start. Get the Giants to think about the pocket moving instead of rushing to one spot. The other problem seems to be that guys aren't getting open, which makes me wonder two things. Is he designing plays to get guys open and are his play calls are predictable so that the defense is waiting for the receivers. It's only game 7 with a young QB. Plus the o-line is in shambles and whether he had a say in that or not, it's still not very good. So I'm willing to give him time (unlike Del Rio who has been here a while), but it is getting frustrating.

 

[burgold]

I wanted to give myself a few days so I didn't react emotionally. But the biggest problem I see with Bieniemy is that like Del Rio, it seems like he doesn't have a game plan going into a game. Last week was a prime example, but it's repeated itself from week 1. You have a QB getting crushed in the pocket, you are playing a D coordinator known for blitzing. How do you not come up with protections and plays to counter that? It took until the 3rd quarter before they started rolling Sam out of the pocket. That should have been in the plans from the start. Get the Giants to think about the pocket moving instead of rushing to one spot. The other problem seems to be that guys aren't getting open, which makes me wonder two things. Is he designing plays to get guys open and are his play calls are predictable so that the defense is waiting for the receivers. It's only game 7 with a young QB. Plus the o-line is in shambles and whether he had a say in that or not, it's still not very good. So I'm willing to give him time (unlike Del Rio who has been here a while), but it is getting frustrating.

Related to this, I think part of what an excellent coordinator does is figure out what their opponent does poorly and adjusts. So, a gameplan against a heavy blitzing team/man team should look different from a cover 2 zone defense. Now this goes away to a degree once you become excellent at something and you force people to play against your signature strength. We don't have that signature unstoppable strength yet so we should be playing to counter our opponents weaknesses. In these seven games, from a layman's point of view, the offensive philosophy and strategy has remained basically static.

Now maybe Bienemy is hamstrung by his roster limitations. Maybe with this bad an o line you can't go to plan b because there isn't a viable plan b or c, but I don't know that I buy that. At the very least, I don't buy it without trying.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Related to this, I think part of what an excellent coordinator does is figure out what their opponent does poorly and adjusts. So, a gameplan against a heavy blitzing team/man team should look different from a cover 2 zone defense. Now this goes away to a degree once you become excellent at something and you force people to play against your signature strength. We don't have that signature unstoppable strength yet so we should be playing to counter our opponents weaknesses. In these seven games, from a layman's point of view, the offensive philosophy and strategy has remained basically static.

Now maybe Bienemy is hamstrung by his roster limitations. Maybe with this bad an o line you can't go to plan b because there isn't a viable plan b or c, but I don't know that I buy that. At the very least, I don't buy it without trying.

Well said

 

[DieselPwr44]

So....7 games in as an OC with this team and where are we at on him?

Saw this last night and it's funny because I brought this up in the game chat after they had a 6 yd run on first down then immediately went empty backfield the next play: "Did Scott Turner really leave?"


With a shaky Oline , that apparently he signed off on at draft time, and a young Qb on his 7th start (in this offense), this is just one fan's thumbnail sketch of what he sees.

He's yet to prove that he knows how to scheme to protect his young Qb.
He's slow to adjust to what's happening on the field.
He doesn't value the run game at all and what that can do for the offense and pass pro.
Has a screen game that looks promising but for some reason, leaves it out of the gameplan every other week.
Fails to use the backs that he has- see above on screens/run game
Hasn't shown on a consistent basis that he can scheme guys open or scheme to feature a particular WR or TE.

I hope this doesn't come off as a knee jerk reaction. But seven games in and it's starting to look like there are reasons why the rest of the league wasn't ready to jump on Bieniemy as a hot HC prospect.

What is your take?

*Bump*
Now 4-7, what has changed?

Not much of anything IMO.

 

[Boone]

I think the whole ‘he’s no better than Scott Turner’ thing may be supportable if you’re just looking at stats. But would Sam Howell look anywhere near this promising if they’d not brought EB in? I seriously question whether he would.

 

[Knightingale]

I'm not totally sold on EB.

To the eye test, the Offense often looks better than last year. We don't seem to have as much trouble moving the ball this year to my eye.
But of course, that could simply be due to the fact that we have a better QB this year who makes things happen.

Our drives seem to splutter out for one of three reasons (in my opinion).

1) We've had some ill timed fumbles this year from a bunch of players, and some uncharacteristic drops. A bunch of these have been in key positions to score or when we're deep in opponent territory. Does this point to coaching?
2) Our QB is essentially a rookie, and those sacks are killing us frequently. Some are on Howell, but a lot of them are on the O-line. There were a bunch yesterday when Sam barely had time to just tuck the ball into his stomach before the Defense hit him our line collapsed so fast. Again, if EB 'signed off' on the changes to the line, he has to share some responsibility. Especially the Wylie acquisition. Got to feel he had a hand with that being as he knew Wylie from Kansas.

But the biggest thing that bugs me...

3) I mentioned it last night, EB sometimes seems to outthink himself in game. Like we'll be on a 2nd and 2 or something, maybe after a nice 8 yard BRob run on first. But instead of going to the run again for the other 2 yards, he'll almost always go to a throw. And Defenses I think know that by now. So when that doesn't work because they're ready for it, he'll go for ANOTHER throw on 3rd down. And if they don't get that, and go for it on 4th (which they did yesterday) he'll throw it AGAIN.
I'm sitting there convinced that if they schemed a roll out for Sam, or just handed the ball to BRob or AGib three times in a row, they'd have ground out the 2 yards. It's sequences like that that infuriate me because it's so predictable, and I'm convinced that EB thinks it isn't. I'm convinced that he's sure the opponent is going to think we'll run it for just 2 yards, but he's being clever going pass.
But that only works if we have some sort of balance between Run/Pass where this becomes unpredicatable. But we pass so often it's never predicatable. If I was an opposing DC I'd be gearing up to stop the pass predominantly almost every play with the ethos 'let them try and beat us on the ground' knowing that our Oline sucks and EB can't help but call pass plays (We pass on 65% of our plays. So far this season 486 PA and 257 Run)

To this end (and it's been mentioned above) EB doesn't seem to either target the opponents weakness, nor does he stick with something that works. Seems he has his own plan sometimes and sticks to it whether it works or not. I had thought that early in the season he was adjusting the offense during halftime effectively, but lately we've looked worse in the second half of games.

How many games this season have we looked to be in or ahead at half time only to go on scoring droughts in the second half while our appalling defense lets the opponent come right back at us.

I know there's a lot of talk about not wanting to split up the Howell/EB partnership, but honestly I'd be happy to clear house at this point and start again with an entirely new staff moving forward. OC included.