Dwayne Haskins- Improving His Physique

One of many experimental iterations ...

Chris

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Is it safe to post a new Haskins thread?

Back at his combine performance I was (unpopularly) critical of his obvious, to me, pudginess. I’m glad to see that he is making an effort to improve in that area.

 

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We see it over and over in the NFL ... rookie QB ends his first season "showing promise," and heads into his first offseason as a professional. To me what that QB does in that first offseason has always been the biggest indicator of whether or not the kid gets it. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of guys with the physical tools to be NFL quarterbacks. There are far fewer who also have the desire, determination and football smarts to become a professional quarterback.

I think we'll have a pretty good idea about what kind of professional Haskins is likely to be by midseason ... maybe year's end if it takes Rivera some time to get everyone pulling the same direction so the team is competitive.
 

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I always have concern about guys who are on the precipice of fulfilling their dreams but don’t put the effort into maximizing their attributes.

I hope that they aren’t inherently lazy and getting by on their physical talents alone.
 

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I always have concern about guys who are on the precipice of fulfilling their dreams but don’t put the effort into maximizing their attributes.

I hope that they aren’t inherently lazy and getting by on their physical talents alone.
But there are different types of lazy.

When it comes to the physical talent, he has it and the shedding of weight will only help him, but there are 2 types of lazy and he has not proven to me that he is working on the other aspect, just one blurb from Kim that was reported months ago.. Om touched on it...he seems smart enough, I've seen him in interviews, he is sharp enough.

But his biggest rub last year was not knowing the playbook. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, Gruden's playbook isn't the easiest riddle to solve. I think RG3 proved that, sharp enough to handle a microphone, but not smart enough to run Gruden's offense. But by week 4 it was rather obvious Haskins knew little...and the word was he did not put enough time in the study room and spent too much time in the gym.

So when they dumbed down the offense as the season progressed, he succeeded. My only concern about Haskins is the amount of energy he's putting in to perfect Scott Turner's offense. That is the 2nd part of lazy that always gets me, and what I see could be his downfall. I am more than willing to work 60-80 hours a week if I have to...I did it for years.

But I'll be damned if I don't have the hardest time accepting that my photography skills can only carry my marketing company so far. I have to invest in the latest marketing tools available, and learn how to use them so my business jumps to the next level.

I can be lazy in that respect, depending a Little too much on what got me here, not what's going to put me above the rest.

I hope Haskins is secretly in the study room getting it done, he does make sure we know he's got the physical tools.
 

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On an unrelated note - that has got to be one of the most annoyingly designed news sites ever. Took me 5 minutes to navigate a 500 word article with all the ads and clutter. Awful.
 

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Is it safe to post a new Haskins thread?

Back at his combine performance I was (unpopularly) critical of his obvious, to me, pudginess. I’m glad to see that he is making an effort to improve in that area.

I don't know. The best quarterback in team history had a pronounced beer gut.
 

SilentThreat

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But there are different types of lazy.


But his biggest rub last year was not knowing the playbook. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, Gruden's playbook isn't the easiest riddle to solve. I think RG3 proved that, sharp enough to handle a microphone, but not smart enough to run Gruden's offense. But by week 4 it was rather obvious Haskins knew little...and the word was he did not put enough time in the study room and spent too much time in the gym.



I hope Haskins is secretly in the study room getting it done, he does make sure we know he's got the physical tools.
Kinda hard to know the playbook when you're running scout team and have to be able to execute the OPPOSING offensive playbook vs your starting defense.... meanwhile not getting any reps within your own offense. When that changed, his game changed for the better. Gruden also is notorious, at least what i've witnessed over the years he was here, for forcing players to adapt to his offense.... not working an offense based on his players talents. He also clearly played favorites and would do whatever he could to not only get 'his guy' involved, but would spite people on the team. He deactivated Adrian Peterson week 1. When we had a roster of RG3, Kirk Cousins, and Colt McCoy, it was no secret that his preference was McCoy.

To believe Gruden gave Haskins even a CHANCE to be involved beyond JV backup is hard for me to believe, after all the reports that he didn't want Haskins came out post-draft. Sorry to take this to Gruden, but how much was Haskins not being smart enough, and how much was Haskins not getting proper coaching....?
 

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Kinda hard to know the playbook when you're running scout team and have to be able to execute the OPPOSING offensive playbook vs your starting defense.... meanwhile not getting any reps within your own offense. When that changed, his game changed for the better. Gruden also is notorious, at least what i've witnessed over the years he was here, for forcing players to adapt to his offense.... not working an offense based on his players talents. He also clearly played favorites and would do whatever he could to not only get 'his guy' involved, but would spite people on the team. He deactivated Adrian Peterson week 1. When we had a roster of RG3, Kirk Cousins, and Colt McCoy, it was no secret that his preference was McCoy.

To believe Gruden gave Haskins even a CHANCE to be involved beyond JV backup is hard for me to believe, after all the reports that he didn't want Haskins came out post-draft. Sorry to take this to Gruden, but how much was Haskins not being smart enough, and how much was Haskins not getting proper coaching....?

I did NOT say he wasn't smart enough, come on ST don't put words in my mouth. I clearly stated,

...he seems smart enough, I've seen him in interviews, he is sharp enough.

We've been through this before, Gruden was only a part of Haskins failures last year. Kirk Cousins stepped up in his first time with the starters, he drove down the field to win the game against the eventual Super Bowl winner that year when thrust into action. Then, in his first start the following week? He won the game. Shanahan had a tough playbook too, didn't stop Cousins from coming off the bench, not having worked with the starters all year, and take the team on a game winning drive in his first at bat.

It was widely reported Haskins spent little time in the study room. It's not that he can't...it's that what I have seen mirrors my own faults...I can be the hardest worker, willing to put in 80 hours or go nearly 2 months without a day off, but am I studying the things that will make me the best?

Again, I question his work habits, not the thing at which he excels...that's easy, he is physically talented. But is he doing the things that may not come easy? Does he spend hours a day perfecting a playbook? Prior to having access to it...did he watch very clip of film available of Scott Turner's offense?

That's what I am questioning and it is becoming tiresome making the same argument for months only to have my words twisted into "Haskins is dumb, and lazy" when I have in fact said otherwise several times. It just seems like he is ignoring the one thing that will make him the best he can be. Losing weight and getting fit is only a part of it...knowing the playbook well enough to come to the LOS and not have to call a timeout until you've burned all 3 in the 1st Q because you don't know the play is another.


And Boone, it doesn't matter if the offense was dumbed down for Callahan, Haskins appeared to be the beneficiary. It doesn't change the fact that all indications are he did not do everything he could to be ready to come off the bench and win, until the offense became far more vanilla.
 

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I understand your point. But you also can't ignore/discount that Gruden by all appearances invested zero energy in trying to get him ready. When you talk about Cousins coming in, they'd already 'dumbed down' the offense to quick reads because that was all Griffin could do. Might've been a little easier to jump in and have success in that system vs. Gruden's entire offensive package. Gruden wanted Cousins all along so there may have been more commitment to preparing him than Haskins got. Then there's the whole issue of how similar college offenses were to Gruden's? I know that Haskins almost literally had never played under center before, and that may have been as big a part of the struggle as anything. I think there's a difference between 'knowing' an offense and being 'comfortable' running it. When you aren't comfortable, that's pretty stressful. And under major stress, folks brains don't work very well. I'm not sure 'he didn't know the offense' is anything more than assumption/speculation (yeah, I know those were the 'rumors' - doesn't make them true though).

Bottom line, based on the fact they didn't draft Tua it appears Rivera and Turner have some belief they can make something out of the young man.

And Chris - the answer is, probably not :)
 

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I understand your point. But you also can't ignore/discount that Gruden by all appearances invested zero energy in trying to get him ready. When you talk about Cousins coming in, they'd already 'dumbed down' the offense to quick reads because that was all Griffin could do. Might've been a little easier to jump in and have success in that system.
I don't buy this because Cousins was nowhere near the athlete to make the read option work as well as Griffin. In fact, go back and look at the game winning drive against the Ravens...he only ran the option once, for the game winning TD. And then in his game against Cleveland the following week, very little read option was used.

And I do lay some blame on Gruden, you could tell during the first couple games, he was just a dead man walking. Why would he spend much time with Haskins? Although he didn't win, Keenum wasn't caught dumbfounded by the playbook in his 1st season. He just wasn't very good on a team that was falling apart.
 

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You are too focused on 'the playbook' El. Have you ever tried to do something complex when you are under a lot of stress? I know you must have... Have you ever heard the term 'rat brain'? Setting aside rumors (most of which were likely drummed up by DC media types), how can one determine why a young QB is struggling and assume it's knowledge of the actual playbook?

The guy literally never took snaps from under center. Not 5 step drops, not 7 step drops, his entire college career was played in shotgun with the coaches calling the plays. That's a huge difference from what he was asked to step in and execute in his rookie year.

Does it really matter? He looked better every week. I haven't heard anyone dispute that. That's exactly what you want to see. He's (by all accounts) worked very hard this offseason. Only time will tell if he can be a decent, very good, or great NFL QB.
 
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I did NOT say he wasn't smart enough, come on ST don't put words in my mouth. I clearly stated,




We've been through this before, Gruden was only a part of Haskins failures last year. Kirk Cousins stepped up in his first time with the starters, he drove down the field to win the game against the eventual Super Bowl winner that year when thrust into action. Then, in his first start the following week? He won the game. Shanahan had a tough playbook too, didn't stop Cousins from coming off the bench, not having worked with the starters all year, and take the team on a game winning drive in his first at bat.

It was widely reported Haskins spent little time in the study room. It's not that he can't...it's that what I have seen mirrors my own faults...I can be the hardest worker, willing to put in 80 hours or go nearly 2 months without a day off, but am I studying the things that will make me the best?

Again, I question his work habits, not the thing at which he excels...that's easy, he is physically talented. But is he doing the things that may not come easy? Does he spend hours a day perfecting a playbook? Prior to having access to it...did he watch very clip of film available of Scott Turner's offense?

That's what I am questioning and it is becoming tiresome making the same argument for months only to have my words twisted into "Haskins is dumb, and lazy" when I have in fact said otherwise several times. It just seems like he is ignoring the one thing that will make him the best he can be. Losing weight and getting fit is only a part of it...knowing the playbook well enough to come to the LOS and not have to call a timeout until you've burned all 3 in the 1st Q because you don't know the play is another.


And Boone, it doesn't matter if the offense was dumbed down for Callahan, Haskins appeared to be the beneficiary. It doesn't change the fact that all indications are he did not do everything he could to be ready to come off the bench and win, until the offense became far more vanilla.

Brother...

But there are different types of lazy.



But his biggest rub last year was not knowing the playbook. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, Gruden's playbook isn't the easiest riddle to solve. I think RG3 proved that, sharp enough to handle a microphone, but not smart enough to run Gruden's offense. But by week 4 it was rather obvious Haskins knew little...and the word was he did not put enough time in the study room and spent too much time in the gym.
I guess you were referring to RG3 here? When I read it a few times I interpreted that RG3 proved it and that Haskins is not smart enough.

Cousins didn't win the first game he played in... he lost it. He came in and threw 2 ints vs Atlanta, trying to come back, and we ended up losing by 7. His second appearance he went 2 for 2 on a drive that started inside the 40 to score a td, then ran a QB draw up the middle for a 2 pt conversion to tie the game. Just the facts.

Shanahan had Kirk tagged as his guy from the jump... Kirk at least took reps in practice within our offense at a minimum because he beat out Grossman as the primary backup. Haskins never got that luxury. Haskins was always treated as 3rd on the depth chart til he was put in the game vs the Giants.

Look. Is Haskins the best QB? Nope. Does he have is own changes to make to help himself? Yes he does. Losing 11 lbs is not some major development to lead to wins. He also wasn't exactly guided by a coach that believed in him. Part of me would be surprised if Gruden wasn't actively working against Haskins, simply because he wanted to be right. Yes I admit that is extreme, but Gruden did things in the past that made me question whether winning football games, or standing his ground, was his focus. You don't like having the same tiresome argument, and neither do I. Haskins ability to study was put on blast, while it was equally clear that his coach was not affording the same level of commitment. It's hard for Haskins to dedicate his life to a playbook, when he spends his time studying the opposing playbook in order to execute scout team. Is he free of judgement last season? No he's not. He looked terrible when he was thrown into 2 different games, weeks apart when there was an injury. Did he dedicate enough time to OUR playbook? I don't know. I guess what i'm saying is there is a lot of room for reasonable doubt, as to what exactly his 'fault' is regarding his time studying our offense.

I dont know if he studied Scott Turner prior to here. In fact, Scott Turner only has about 5 weeks of film as an OC in the NFL.... I dont know what our offense is going to look like... in reality it likely has similarities, but we don't have Christian McCaffrey, so it likely looks different than Carolina's.
 

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I didn't say Cousins ran the option. I said they had greatly simplified the calls and complexity for Griffin and that was what Cousins was studying, not a wide open multiple read NFL offense. You don't think that benefited him when he got his chance? He also threw a bunch of picks early on - so he wasn't perfect in his early outings.

You are fixated on 'the playbook' though El. Have you ever tried to do something complex when you are under a lot of stress? I know you must have... Have you ever heard the term 'rat brain'? Setting aside rumors (most of which were likely drummed up by DC media types), how can one determine why a young QB is struggling and assume it's knowledge of the actual playbook?

The guy literally never took snaps from under center. Not 5 step drops, not 7 step drops, his entire college career was played in shotgun with the coaches calling the plays. That's a huge difference from what he was asked to step in and execute in his rookie year.

Does it really matter? He looked better every week. I haven't heard anyone dispute that. That's exactly what you want to see. He's (by all accounts) worked very hard this offseason. Only time will tell if he can be a decent, very good, or great NFL QB.

And...once again...I don't feel comfortable that the kid is focused on what's most important in his development. You can minimize it all you like, you're not changing my mind. Haskins needs to sit his ass in the film room, and study.


So instead of bragging about how much weight you lost, how good you are at cone drills, what a pretty pass you throw, and what a strong arm you have...get better at what has big your biggest problem, regardless of circumstances study the film.

You're right, it will all come out in the wash, but from what I am seeing he is singularly focused.
 

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Brother...



I guess you were referring to RG3 here? When I read it a few times I interpreted that RG3 proved it and that Haskins is not smart enough.
N
Nope, RG3 failed. In the respect that RG3 was a workout warrior, he never applied himself to learning anything that he could not over come without his insane physical ability. I am not sold RG3 was ever smart enough.

I see Haskins doing the same thing, focusing on the physical...and I strongly believe Haskins is the smarter QB, he is smart enough.

Just like I told Boone, and I have repeated over and over and over again. I am giving the kid the benefit of the doubt, one because our new staff is hedging their bets on him this upcoming season, and 2 after seeing him progress last year, it is obvious the kid is talented enough. =

Will he do what really matters? Losing weight is great, now focus on studying the playbook so when the 1st game of the season arrives, he's not calling time out because the play he called in the huddle, is not what he sees in the alignment because he got it wrong and has to take a time out.

And bash Gruden all you want, I'm of the belief that personal responsibility goes a long way. Gruden's gone, Haskins can't beat that dead horse anymore.
 

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Nope, RG3 failed. In the respect that RG3 was a workout warrior, he never applied himself to learning anything that he could not over come without his insane physical ability. I am not sold RG3 was ever smart enough.

I see Haskins doing the same thing, focusing on the physical...and I strongly believe Haskins is the smarter QB.

Just like I told Boone, and I have repeated over and over and over again. I am giving the kid the benefit of the doubt, one because our new staff is hedging their bets on him this upcoming season, and 2 after seeing him progress last year, it is obvious the kid is talented enough. =

Will he do what really matters? Losing weight is great, now focus on studying the playbook so when the 1st game of the season arrives, he's not calling time out because the play he called in the huddle, is not what he sees in the alignment because he got it wrong and has to take a time out.

I just hope things aren't in a vacuum. The kid has A LOT of things working against him this year, so the climb is going to be even more steep. A level of discomfort may be attributed because of a lack of film study, but it could be a lot of other factors as well. No OTAs, limited offseason, social distancing, limited reps with teammates and coaches... I guess we will see how things pan out, and I hope he is up to the task. If he struggles week 1, I hope we aren't hearing chants for Kyle Allen.
 

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I just hope things aren't in a vacuum. The kid has A LOT of things working against him this year, so the climb is going to be even more steep. A level of discomfort may be attributed because of a lack of film study, but it could be a lot of other factors as well. No OTAs, limited offseason, social distancing, limited reps with teammates and coaches... I guess we will see how things pan out, and I hope he is up to the task. If he struggles week 1, I hope we aren't hearing chants for Kyle Allen.
Yeah, I am willing to be patient with him as far as throwing Allen in there. Haskins should at least get time to develop, especially in the 1st year of a major rebuild. I consider kinda see this as his rookie season.

I am not down on this kid nearly as much as I was RG3, he is definitely not the same QB. He does share some characteristics that drove me crazy about RG3...ego being one of them.

I think Haskins' ceiling is far greater than Griffin, I am just not convinced he'll reach his potential. I don't think he sees that he needs to be more than physically gifted.

Michael Jordan was mocked because of his defensive play early in his career, so he went out and worked his ass off to become one of the best defenders in the NBA. Not saying Haskins will be compared to a great of all time, but you get my point. The greats tackle their weaknesses.
 

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