dline wtf

[Rymanofthenorth]

i get letting settle go to the bills, he was the 4th man down in the rotation even if he did give us very solid minutes, but cutting Ioannidis, AFTER letting settle go? I mean someone with Dline issues should have been willing to give us something even if its a low round pick, why cut him? unless we resign him for cheaper, in which case, it was a good move. but I doubt that happens. the team went from having arguably the best dline depth in the league to having no depth.

 

[burgold]

It's possible that this coaching staff never really saw the Ionadis we saw. He was injured in Ron's first year and played sparingly last year. That said, Matt should have been kept. A good staff finds ways to take advantage of talent. If he couldn't be kept because of cap then you have to find a way to keep Settle. If you know you can't keep Settle then you keep Matt.

We still have a good D Line (on paper), but it's starter thin at D tackle. I suppose the staff may really have liked what they saw with the DEs they were forced into starting and are thinking they might be able to rotate them in at DT, too. I'm not sure if they're big enough, but maybe as pass rushing subs, they could be effective.

 

[Neophyte]

Guys, Wise played well in a couple of appearances last year and he has been tendered.

I feel like JDR has a pretty good idea what he has with what is left and signed off on letting these two go.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm frustrated with where it appears we're going but I also know that I'm on the outside looking in.

We know we have Smith Williams who the team has really liked because of his versatility and ability to play end or tackle, and as Neo pointed out, Wise played some quality snaps last season... maybe they have a plan? I don't know..

 

[MikefromOH]

Like I said in another thread:

We went from the best DL in football that was deep on all levels to now wondering who will even start.

 

[Boone]

We’re 2 days into Free Agency with 6 draft picks to come. We’re not done.

 

[MikefromOH]

We saw the impact of losing a vet like kerrigan causes. I'm not convinced bringing in a bunch of rookies and only having one true vet on the DL is a good idea

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Like I said in another thread:

We went from the best DL in football that was deep on all levels to now wondering who will even start.

Let’s not go that far. We know who will start. Young, Payne, Allen, Sweat. Until one of those guys is let go or traded, it’s not time to panic. Losing depth is a concern, but depth is always the casualty in the salary cap era. You can’t pay to keep backups when you can get the cheap ones in the draft or off the street who can play 10-15 snaps a game.

I liked Ioannidis, but the stats show he hasn’t played much the past 2 years and hasn’t been productive. And the year the defense was great, he was hurt.

I liked Settle too and part of me wanted them to keep him and trade Payne. But I’ll also admit that emotion played a part in that after what happened in Dallas. Maybe he could see there was no path for him to play more and took the chance that he will be a starter in Buffalo. Allen is the real deal and Payne has had his moments as well.

When training camp rolls around and we see what the team has in total, then I’ll worry. But until then, I’m not going to panic unless someone major is released or traded or isn’t re-signed.

 

[MikefromOH]

Do we know Payne is starting? Is Young healthy enough to make opening game? Is Sweat still a trade rumor?

Saying we're "panicking" when we've seen them let career players like Ryan go when they could have kept him is why people like me think we don't have any idea who is really starting.

We really need to now depend on Allen and Payne "making up" or else we are going to have a real problem on the DL. One guy who got paid and is a pro, one guy who is pissed and not going to try.

We've seen that, too. Haynesworthless comes to mind immediately.

 

[Boone]

I think the Allen/Payne dust up was way overblown. Those guys go way back and one little blowup in frustration isn’t going to change things. Guessing they talked about it and it’s already ancient history.

 

[MikefromOH]

I agree with that looking in. But, we never know. I'd rather hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

[Canadian Hog]

I would venture to guess there are at least 20 teams in the league that would swap their starting four on the D Line for Payne, Allen, Sweat, and Young. Regardless of what seems like a lack of depth right now, we are still in good shape. Depth is as much a product of your positional coaching, and the ability of your scouting and personnel departments to find guys via the draft and free agency. It's time for those guys to go to work again and mold the next Ioannidis and Settle.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't think Rivera and Co have earned the benefit of the doubt when we're talking about letting Settle walk for pennies 3 days before you cut Ioannidis, while Payne is going into the final year of his deal and (at the time, there was clearly no cap space to do anything to address it) no extension is in place.

i also will freely say we're not done yet, but reacting in the moment, it feels very reactionary as opposed to there being a well thought out bigger plan. There's clearly still time in the offseason for it to come together. We also don't know what happened behind closed doors, for all we know Settle said he didnt want to be here... but that would surprise me having gone to HS here in Northern Virginia, gone to Va Tech... Doesn't jump out at me as a guy who would want out, but then again who knows.

 

[Canadian Hog]

I don't think Rivera and Co have earned the benefit of the doubt when we're talking about letting Settle walk for pennies 3 days before you cut Ioannidis, while Payne is going into the final year of his deal and (at the time, there was clearly no cap space to do anything to address it) no extension is in place.

i also will freely say we're not done yet, but reacting in the moment, it feels very reactionary as opposed to there being a well thought out bigger plan. There's clearly still time in the offseason for it to come together. We also don't know what happened behind closed doors, for all we know Settle said he didnt want to be here... but that would surprise me having gone to HS here in Northern Virginia, gone to Va Tech... Doesn't jump out at me as a guy who would want out, but then again who knows.

Derek - I hear and see what you are saying here. You have a very valid point.

With Payne going into his final year, from an economical standpoint, it would have been very smart to make locking Settle up a priority. He's a player with upside and you could have had a serviceable player to potentially start next year on a very team-friendly deal.

The one thing I have been thinking of late to help to try and explain it is maybe this staff views their DTs as being more vital towards the overall functioning of their defense compared to their Ends. Maybe they view it as being more imperative to retain Payne to pair with Allen long-term, as opposed to pairing Settle with Allen, because they can't live without high-end starters at DT within their system? It's just an idea I am throwing out there.

Under that scenario, does it potentially open up the door to parting ways with one of the two big name Ends? I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Derek - I hear and see what you are saying here. You have a very valid point.

With Payne going into his final year, from an economical standpoint, it would have been very smart to make locking Settle up a priority. He's a player with upside and you could have had a serviceable player to potentially start next year on a very team-friendly deal.

The one thing I have been thinking of late to help to try and explain it is maybe this staff views their DTs as being more vital towards the overall functioning of their defense compared to their Ends. Maybe they view it as being more imperative to retain Payne to pair with Allen long-term, as opposed to pairing Settle with Allen, because they can't live without high-end starters at DT within their system? It's just an idea I am throwing out there.

Under that scenario, does it potentially open up the door to parting ways with one of the two big name Ends? I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Yeah it's possible. I know that Rivera and his group value versatility, so it's possible they want to compose the D-line similar the O-line where guys can play all over... Like I said, things can still happen, and maybe Settle and Ioannidis both were not a part of the plans (and if THAT is the case, then Ioannidis' agent is correct that they were completely misled at the combine which raises a different red flag). If you take them at their word, they did not PLAN on moving on from Ioannidis. You can rationalize that statement if they only changed their mind AFTER the Wentz trade because of the cap strain it created, so things change... problem is that contradicts the thought that Settle and Ioannidis were never part of the plan, so which is it?

The release of Ioannidis in a vacuum makes sense. He hasn't been the player he was a few years ago, it's a relatively expensive contract for the production, and there's little long term penalty so the cap space is clean...


IF they invest in Payne long term, then the moves will make a bit more sense. In fact, signing him to an extension TODAY likely opens up even more cap space. Moving the Landon Collins release to post - JUNE -1 is another smart move to get a bigger bag of cash, so it's possible we don't see an extension for McLaurin OR Payne til July or August, similar to the Allen and Leno deals... If that's the case, we're going to spend the next 5 months wondering...

 

[Boone]

I guess I look at things a lot more simply than you guys. When we have either a top tier defense or a top tier offense I will be inclined to criticize player turnover. We have neither of those and so, if you are going to change that, you will have to have different players. We criticize losing almost any player - but we aren’t responsible for the whole picture. There is only so much money, you can only keep so many players (regardless of perceived talent), and they are trying to get better OVERALL, not just looking at one position group. That means compromising what you might like at one spot for the greater good.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

we dont have a top tier defence because whenever we build a good dline, our back seven sucks and when we had a solid back 7 the front 4 sucked.

we dont do a good job of building depth and talent and we seem to think having 1-2 big names is better than having a solid all around group and THEN rolling the dice on big names.

This wentz deal was stupid and i would bet it was done with cutting him in 2 years and getting a big cap relief. i know there were no big ticket qbs in the draft, so in that sense im ok with not reaching for a qb. but they didnt have the cap sorted, which is something this team used to be good at lol

 

[Neophyte]

If you don't think that all of these moves were part of a broader plan then I don't think you are paying attention.

 

[Primus Porcus]

we dont have a top tier defence because whenever we build a good dline, our back seven sucks and when we had a solid back 7 the front 4 sucked.

we dont do a good job of building depth and talent and we seem to think having 1-2 big names is better than having a solid all around group and THEN rolling the dice on big names.

This wentz deal was stupid and i would bet it was done with cutting him in 2 years and getting a big cap relief. i know there were no big ticket qbs in the draft, so in that sense im ok with not reaching for a qb. but they didnt have the cap sorted, which is something this team used to be good at lol

you do realize we've used our last 4 first round picks on D-lineman right?

 

[Neophyte]

4 out of the last 5, ST. We drafted a LB in the first last year.

I admit, I had some doubts in the opening hours too but I think a lot of that was my perception of what some guys had done vs the reality of what they had done. Specifically with Ioannidis. His last 2 years really aren't all that and a bag of chips. Losing Settle still stings a bit but honestly, if the guy was killing it so well, how come he wasn't in the game more? I'll trust the coaches on this one for now and see where it shakes out on the field in September.