Discussing the potential future benching og RG3

[fansince62]

Why is it not possible to grade a player on his performance, regardless of what's going on around him ?
It's just not that hard to zero in on a player's performance, and analyze it for what it is, without respect to what other players are doing.
NFL scouts do that all the time with college players. How do you think they determine whether a college player has NFL potential, since obviously the potential draftee's whole resume is against college-level players, and not NFL. And in many cases, they're not playing in an NFL-style offense. Scouts don't use that as an excuse, and throw up their arms, and say, "Well we can't judge this player's NFL potential, because he wasn't playing in an NFL environment".

Just once, can we forget about what the rest of the team is doing, and just put each QB under the microscope ?

With RG3, when he fails, it's always about what other players are doing wrong.
When McCoy does well, it's always about outside circumstances giving him good luck.

People bring up McCoy's past when talking about his potential, but they don't give him the same excuses they give RG, about having a bad supporting cast performance, at the time.
When he loses, it's his fault.
When he wins, it's only because some other factors outside of him

You have to be able to judge a QB for what he himself is doing.
If you're waiting for the perfect environment for him to be surrounded with all the right factors, you're going to be waiting your whole life for that environment.
This is not a science experiment, where we can control the environment and factors, for a perfect study. You work with what you have, to come to a conclusion.
As a matter of fact, it's actually MORE relevant to see how a QB performs when all the circumstances around him are not right - because he has to be able to handle pressure situations. I don't want a guy who only plays well under perfect circumstances. How a guy performs in constantly changing environments, is the truest test of his abilities.
Instead of using the surrounding environment as an excuse to call it a flawed study, the question should rather be - how did HE respond to the surrounding environment ? THAT'S the focus and the issue

then at least establish the correct framework. you haven't even done that.

what you have structured is the fol: we will ignore everything RGIII accomplished his first year. buuuuuuuuut........those last 8 games of Robert's? and the fantastic, absolutely mind-blowing, unimaginably, super cali fragilistic two games Colt played? why they're simply irrefutable proof that the wrong guy is at the helm!!!

make the case. I'm sorry and I really don't want to be nasty...but do you really think stating "Robert has thrown 200 more passes" is an argument? do you really think highlighying some flaws while ignoring ALL the strengths is an argument? it's not. it's exactly what I called it - a straw man argument. and, if you like, trying to reroute the discussion into one about the franchise QB (i.e., the future) distracts from the core issue of performance. what's the standard? how do you measure it so there is at least something more than someone voicing frustration/anger with one player's performance in a system/on a team that is crashing and burning in toto - the only thing this team does as a unified goal apparently!!!!

 

[micks113]

1) I'm not here to sell you...any more than you are here to sell me.

2) You made an argument that really wasn't an argument.

I'm not in the game of deliberating whether he is "the guy". I'm looking at the bigger picture and concluding there is so much imploding around him that there is no way anyone can arrive at a firm conclusion. there are too many factors in involved. the whole team has been collapsing. additionally, I don't see anyone offering up any viable alternatives. I find the notion laughable that because a guy who has never thrown more than 2 TDs, has never had a winning NFL record, beat the hapless Titans by two points, threw a pick in the endzone but benefitted from outstanding CB play and threw 200 fewer passes the RG is somehow the magic potion!

Sorry fan, you're just plain wrong on this one. You can see what problems Griffin is having. The whole team has their own problems, Gruden acknowledges as much. And we can see the obvious, watch the friggin game, its not rocket science. Griffin is just plain not gettting HIS job done. And its not because of the other 10 guys. The validation to that statement is 2012, we had a piss poor team until RGIII rode in on his white horse. We still have that same piss poor team the last two years. What's the difference????? Its Robert Griffin's performance has dropped off the cliff so now we don't have any white knights leading the way, we had hope, but hope has disappeared. The team sucks, and RGIII has joined the suckage crowd. Sorry, no one can deny this without a smile on their face.

 

[JLIServicesinc]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/

 

[fansince62]

Really? Donovan McCrapp throws dirt worms and everyone screams how shitty the pass is, Griffin throws one at a receivers feet and he bears no responsibility for the poor pass?

That sir, is bullshit!

Donovan did it for 11+ years.

 

[fansince62]

Sorry fan, you're just plain wrong on this one. You can see what problems Griffin is having. The whole team has their own problems, Gruden acknowledges as much. And we can see the obvious, watch the friggin game, its not rocket science. Griffin is just plain not gettting HIS job done. And its not because of the other 10 guys. The validation to that statement is 2012, we had a piss poor team until RGIII rode in on his white horse. We still have that same piss poor team the last two years. What's the difference????? Its Robert Griffin's performance has dropped off the cliff so now we don't have any white knights leading the way, we had hope, but hope has disappeared. The team sucks, and RGIII has joined the suckage crowd. Sorry, no one can deny this without a smile on their face.

we'll just have to disagree then! I find the stats Tandler (or Kiem...can't recall) posted much more convincing vis the high number of sacks in the last game. RGIII has things to fix....BUT THAT O-LINE SUCKS LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS IN PASS PRO. IT'S AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL.

 

[Elephant]

Donovan did it for 11+ years.

And your point is?

Robert gets a pass for throwing another poor pass when he tried to do too much because he missed/didn't see the open receiver on a pass that the coach drew up, instead scrambling out of the pocket at the first hint of pressure?

 

[Elephant]

we'll just have to disagree then! I find the stats Tandler (or Kiem...can't recall) posted much more convincing vis the high number of sacks in the last game. RGIII has things to fix....BUT THAT O-LINE SUCKS LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS IN PASS PRO. IT'S AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL.

Yet a "lesser talented" QB won with Polumbus still out there against a better defense than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. We're talking about the Tampa Buccaneers and how the "Franchise" QB could not make the game competitive.

 

[Om]

He had a really bad game, El. We all saw it and all agree. That doesn't make Colt McCoy a possible long-term solution to the QB position on this team though, does it? Do you think we need to see more of Colt to know what we have there?

 

[fansince62]

Yet a "lesser talented" QB won with Polumbus still out there against a better defense than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. We're talking about the Tampa Buccaneers and how the "Franchise" QB could not make the game competitive.

El...that's it? you're basing your argument on a sample set of one?

cmon bud. I know you to be one smart cat when we've lunched together near B-More (Ravens dig...score one for fan). you're getting emotional about this just like the rest of us.

 

[TomE]

On Sunday in MetLife Stadium, 49ers linebacker Ahmad Brooks refused to go back into the game against the Giants in the second half because he was unhappy over having to split playing time with Aldon Smith, who had just returned from a suspension. In that same game, veteran QB Eli Manning threw five interceptions, the primary reason his team lost the game. In Kansas City, Marshawn Lynch didn’t go into the locker room at halftime with his teammates and after the game he again defied NFL policy by refusing to meet with the media. In Green Bay, the NFC East-leading Eagles were blown out by the Packers, giving up 53 points in the process.

And in Landover, Maryland, Robert Griffin III made a comment that was taken out of context and the narrative became that he threw his teammates under the bus. The next day, his coach said he should worry more about himself and his inadequate level of play.

So, what was the big topic on the web, on talk radio, and even in non-sports media? It was, of course, Griffin

Tandler
More serious NFL stories ignored in favor of RG3 but Redskins must learn to live with it | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

 

[Primus Porcus]

Well if that doesn't feel like a kick in the nuts....

 

[Om]

I wonder if Rich canvassed message boards and local media outlets in SF, NY, KC, PHIL ... seems unlikely Robert and the Redskins are getting more play in those cities than the local teams?

 

[TomE]

dunno Om, don't recall hearing much of anything about those other newsbombs around here though

 

[DixieFlatline]

dunno Om, don't recall hearing much of anything about those other newsbombs around here though

It was a big topic of discussion on Mike & Mike this morning with Chris Carter. Carter said there are those in the locker room that have a problem with Robert although he didn't specify in what context. While they railed on him for making the comment pretty hard, they seemed to be of the mind that it wasn't an attempt to throw his teammates under the bus. Rather they were saying....don't say anything or say as little as possible. Carter did go off on him a bit for seemingly worry more about endorsements than others like Luck who he's rarely seen in endorsements. He said Robert should mimic Luck's mindset for endorsements and worry more about on the field. Not doing a few endorsements won't matter that much in the long term. He did wrap it up though by saying Robert is a young kid with a good heart that wants to do it right. He thought Robert was starting to get better advice now than he did as a rookie.

 

[Om]

Mike and Mike also spent a bunch is airtime on The PIT and SF stories. It's what they do.

 

[DixieFlatline]

True. I guess I misunderstood your question.

 

[TomE]

Didn't catch any M&M this week, was with the wife doing the do's, she doesn't want to hear that stuff so local CW was tuned in.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Sorry fan, you're just plain wrong on this one. You can see what problems Griffin is having. The whole team has their own problems, Gruden acknowledges as much. And we can see the obvious, watch the friggin game, its not rocket science. Griffin is just plain not getting HIS job done. And its not because of the other 10 guys. The validation to that statement is 2012, we had a piss poor team until RGIII rode in on his white horse. We still have that same piss poor team the last two years. What's the difference????? Its Robert Griffin's performance has dropped off the cliff so now we don't have any white knights leading the way, we had hope, but hope has disappeared. The team sucks, and RGIII has joined the suckage crowd. Sorry, no one can deny this without a smile on their face.

It can also be said that changing the system Robert plays under twice since entering the league is the root cause of his suckage right now. And that's not taking into account that he really wasn't 100% last season. What's changed from then to now.... the system.

The 2012 full blown read option system was shelved around the time the MRI cam back saying he needed major reconstructive surgery of his knee. As I said in another thread, Robert is 100% healthy, and fast as ever. The only thing slowing him down is him trying to be what the coach wants him to be. He's an option QB, and forcing him to be a conventional QB has ruined him. He could play his style of football, and develop the pocket skills over the course of a few seasons. The square peg into the round hole doesn't work unless you take some real time to whittle down the edges.

 

[Dead Money]

Sorry Pete you can't have both and the option as a base offense is over.

It's the NFL and in the NFL you will eventually have to read defenses and make them pay with quick accurate passes to escape pressures.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Sorry Pete you can't have both and the option as a base offense is over.

It's the NFL and in the NFL you will eventually have to read defenses and make them pay with quick accurate passes to escape pressures.

I'm not to sure about that brother. The option is about taking what the D is giving you just prior to the snap. That's reading defenses as far as I know. What you described is exactly what we did in 12, and if you look at the stats, we had a mix of short, intermediate, and long passes, though the long ball wasn't a huge factor not having the type of receiver to consistently get open and stretch the field. Those deep throws take time to develop, and it's not often Robert is given a clean pocket to sit in. Robert made people pay often enough with quick accurate passes in 12.

I stand by my opinion, the system is what made Robert excel in 12, and the change the cause of him floundering now.