D. Hall in 3rd Pro Bowl

[Bulldog]

Remember all those pro bowl votes safety Roy Williams of Dallas and Mike Alstott of Tampa garnered in the past?

Were these really the 'best' safeties and fullbacks in the game?

No.

And in retrospect they are rarely discussed by fans or media.

Pro football players are lazy voters. They don't keep current but rather go with the choices that are familiar.

That's how Chris Samuels got voted to his last pro bowl despite what he admitted wasn't one of his best seasons.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I think the inference was that he didn't get in on the initial ballot, that he was an alternate. If not, big blunder. But knowing Ryman, I would wager he will state that Fletcher wasn't a pro-bowler, that there is a difference since he was an alternate, because we all know he is never wrong. :eclipsee_Victoria:

being an alternate is not being a probowler, last year I made a thread stating if I was an "alternate" in the probowl, I would tell them to pound sand when they asked me to play because someone else was injured. also London had never made the probowl and for his first time playing to be because of someoen else being hurt, I thought it insulting.

 

[Elephant]

being an alternate is not being a probowler, last year I made a thread stating if I was an "alternate" in the probowl, I would tell them to pound sand when they asked me to play because someone else was injured. also London had never made the probowl and for his first time playing to be because of someoen else being hurt, I thought it insulting.

What did I tell you?


Edit: Oh...and you would turn down the extra pay too because that doesn't matter either, right?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

What did I tell you?


Edit: Oh...and you would turn down the extra pay too because that doesn't matter either, right?

how much is it? because lets be honest, what might seem like big money to you may not be to someone making over a million per. the trip to hawaii may be worth it tho lol.

To me it is a pride thing, I said it last year and I will say it again, his stats werent as good as the guys picked ahead of him, he didnt make as many wow plays. he has had some pro bowl calibre years but he plays in the NFC where there has always been a couple of superstar MLBs. I love fletch for what he has done for this team and his influence is far more than what he does on the field but he has never been a pro bowl calibre MLB in comparison to the absolute elite MLBs in the NFC. the whole injury alternate thing to me is a joke and given he has earned the real thing and been snubbed in the past I would have told them to pound sand.

sometimes Redskins fans are funny, I had this exact same argument about Samuels, he was a very good LT for us and solid but he was never an elite LT.

 

[Elephant]

how much is it? because lets be honest, what might seem like big money to you may not be to someone making over a million per. the trip to hawaii may be worth it tho lol.

To me it is a pride thing, I said it last year and I will say it again, his stats werent as good as the guys picked ahead of him, he didnt make as many wow plays. he has had some pro bowl calibre years but he plays in the NFC where there has always been a couple of superstar MLBs. I love fletch for what he has done for this team and his influence is far more than what he does on the field but he has never been a pro bowl calibre MLB in comparison to the absolute elite MLBs in the NFC. the whole injury alternate thing to me is a joke and given he has earned the real thing and been snubbed in the past I would have told them to pound sand.

sometimes Redskins fans are funny, I had this exact same argument about Samuels, he was a very good LT for us and solid but he was never an elite LT.

Listen, I understand your point about not really being a Pro-Bowler if you are an alternate and then get in because someone was hurt, but I think you're wrong. If you play in the Pro-Bowl, you are a Pro-Bowler. It really is that simple. I also agree that London had been snubbed in years he performed better than the year he was in the Pro-Bowl. The bottom line and it has been touched upon is that this has become a popularity contest.

As for Samules, I agree if you look at his overall career he was very good. But there were a few seasons he was absolutely dominant, elite! I can't remember what seasons, but he went like one or two seasons w/out allowing a sack or very minimal if any. I'll have to check the stats on that, but that's elite my man.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Its totally a popularity contest, I agree.they made it that way when they made fans eligible to vote, Rak benefitted from that last year.

Samuels had a couple very good years but elite would be walter jones, orlando pace in his prime, jonathan ogden. Samuels always had trouble with elite rushers especially speed/size guys who could play quick but with power. The year spurrier was here really exposed him.

he was a pretty good LT but he was a far better run than pass blocker and he wasnt at the level of the truly elite Lts. (having said that he played in an era where 2 of the best ever were playing.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Lol. Only Ryman could trivialize the best LT the Redskins had over 2 decades, a multiple pro-bowl bookend tackle. Samuels was a beast, top 3 LT in the NFL for most of his career.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

apparently lanky likes burgundy glasses and koolaid.

Samuels wasnt our best in 2 decades, how old are you? Lachey was the best LT this team has ever had period. followed by Jacoby.

Samuels was nowhere near the top 3 Lts in the NFL when he played, Ogden, Pace, Jones,roaf,and zimmerman all played when samuels did.

 

[DieselPwr44]

London Fletcher gets passed on year in year out and a dope like Hall gets in over one game vs Cutler and the Bears.

The Pro bowl is nothing but a beauty contest.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Its all about wow plays my friend, for linebackers its not about consistency or making tackles, its about picks and sacks. for Dbs its all about picks.

 

[servumtuum]

Its all about wow plays my friend, for linebackers its not about consistency or making tackles, its about picks and sacks. for Dbs its all about picks.

I heartily agree, ryman. 'Los is much better covering quick agile WRs but because he knocks passes down instead of catching them for INTs Hall gets the acclaim.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

exactly. You are an analyst type, so you tend to look at things differently than most people, some people only ever look at the surface. last year we benefitted as well as got hurt by that method of selection, Rak made a probowl as a linebacker based on sacks he got for the most part playing end, while Fletch who was arguably the heart of this defence was not even really considered until injuries forced them to add him.

Hall is the flashy guy who makes big plays, Carlos just quietly shuts guys down. the funny thing is guys like hall are boom or bust and get the big bucks, Carlos will probably want elite money but get far less unless another team wants a solid cover knockdown type.

 

[servumtuum]

To be honest, ryman, I'd be just about tempted, now that he's in his third Pro-Bowl, to dangle Hall as bait to see if we could get that third round pick back.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

To be honest, ryman, I'd be just about tempted, now that he's in his third Pro-Bowl, to dangle Hall as bait to see if we could get that third round pick back.

I would as well, he is a playmaker but he also is not very sound. the thing is, he fits what we want at CB in this scheme.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

apparently lanky likes burgundy glasses and koolaid.

Samuels wasnt our best in 2 decades, how old are you? Lachey was the best LT this team has ever had period. followed by Jacoby.

Samuels was nowhere near the top 3 Lts in the NFL when he played, Ogden, Pace, Jones,roaf,and zimmerman all played when samuels did.

I do like burgundy glasses, but Samuels was dominant in his prime. Saying otherwise is pretty silly. Lachey was good, but I've had this argument with others. None of the hogs would be that great in today's NFL. Defenders have gotten bigger and faster.

Top 4 then - I'd put Ogden, Pace and Jones ahead of him, but Roaf...at the time they played, Samuels was younger and better, IMO. But Zimmerman? The OT for the Broncos? He retired in 97, bro.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Samuels wasnt dominant, he was solid to very good, but even in his best seasons he had trouble with speed rushers. The dominant guys didnt have holes in their game. Lachey would have been fine in this era, as would have Jacoby who was what 6-6 and 300 pounds? Jacoby was among the first of the super Lts along with munoz, he just doesnt get the credit Munoz did and Lachey barring that shoulder injury would have been HOF for sure as he was a dominant LT.

btw I liked Samuels, but as good as he was for us he was never an all pro calibre player and thats how I judge dominance in an olineman.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

funny..he was elected by both his peers and the players as an all pro.

They obviously didn't consult with Ryman before voting.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

LOL anything selected by "peers" is subject to becoming a popularity contest, but Mike why dont you tell me what YOU think feel free to give reasons as well. My contention is that because samuels was a better run than pass blocker and because he had trouble with speed rushers throughout his career and because he never flat out dominated the way Pace, Jones and Ogden did, he was not an elite LT but a step below.

 

[DieselPwr44]

The Pro Bowler looked awesome gambling and whiffing on third down with the opponent backed up inside it's own ten.

If we could get in contact with Oscar Goldman of OSI and have Dr. Rudy take Hall's hands and put them on Rogers' arms..............

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

uhh are you being daft? the entire point of contention here, is that samuels was not elite because he played when Pace ogden and jones (all of whom are probably in the top 5 ot's of all time) were playing and thusly he was a step below elite. That he wasnt quite the all around player they were and the holes in his game were the reason why.

as I already said I liked samuels and he was a very good player for us but he suffers because he played in an era when there were at least 3 all time Lts playing.