Cheers and Jeers

[Goaldeje]

I wake up this morning, and the world is shining. We won. Dallas lost, in humiliating, choking dog fashion. There are two negatives that worry me the most from yesterday:

Seriously, can we not find a frickin' FG kicker that can hit from inside 40 consistently? I am willing to give Extreme's balls away at this point.

The O-line. Ugh. Need massive improvement. Quickly. We won't have many problems against ARI next week, but after that? If they played that poorly against the GMen 2nd stringers, we are in for a long year.

I'm hoping that Shanahan brings in competition immediately for Gano. And that he has a come to Jesus talk with the line. Someone (BB?) mentioned switching TW and Jamaal yesterday, and that idea is growing on me. Even if we do that, Shanny needs to work his magic on the interior. That was dreadful.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Rak whiffed on a couple tackles, but was all over the field, to me though, when you are the lynchpin of a defence you had better have a full stat line as well as doing the little things. was he bad? no, but I expect more out of him. honestly he disapointed me yesterday. Kerrigan sometimes looked lost but man the kid has an impressive motor, he is the epitome of if you screw up at a hundred miles an hour people are less angry than when you screw up and slow down.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Kerrigan cracks me up - he looks like an excited middle-schooler out there.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Rak will never have the stat sheet you would expect while being held constantly. I'm a little disappointed that at this point in his career he hasn't learned how to prevent himself from getting locked up by an O linemen.

He need to learn some better moves.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I still don't buy the "Orakpo needs more moves" argument. A hold is a hold is a hold. And he was blatantly held on at least one play I saw that he should have had a sack. Kind of ridiculous at this point.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

How great is London Fletcher? "Thanks coach, but Monday will be a work day." ****ing awesome.

 

[Goaldeje]

To pick up on a recurring theme, BOOOOOOOOO to the officials for not calling holding:

One popular pursuit for Redskins bloggers last season was taking screenshots that appeared to show offensive linemen holding Brian Orakpo without getting flagged for holding. See for example, here. Or here.

“I’ve been held all season,” Orakpo said after one uncalled infraction. “I don't understand it. I keep saying, I’ve got to keep fighting through it, keep fighting, but I mean, when you’re getting held like this, it's ridiculous.”

Now, I didn’t hear Orakpo or anyone else complaining about missed calls on Sunday, but this shot seems to show that same familiar move, does it not? And the box score does not show any offensive holding calls against the Giants.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-getting-held/2011/09/12/gIQAQOxFNK_blog.html

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah, who cares if he has only one pass-rush move, that should NOT be an excuse for officials to not call holding! So blatant.

 

[Miles Monroe]

I still don't buy the "Orakpo needs more moves" argument. A hold is a hold is a hold. And he was blatantly held on at least one play I saw that he should have had a sack. Kind of ridiculous at this point.

You're right, a hold is a hold, but the O linemen are taught how to hold a player in ways that go unnoticed for the most part. The ref can't be looking at everything, so I stand by what I said, he needs to learn some more moves.

Maybe it's his technique with the moves he has, but he's tied up all too often.

 

[Elephant]

Or maybe he needs to take a dive or two when he realizes he's being held. I mean if it is blatant, which occurs quite often, he needs to fall to the ground to bring the attention to him. I think he's just too proud to dive like that, but if it is the only thing that is going to make the ref notice, then...take a dive Rak! Take a dive!

 

[Miles Monroe]

To pick up on a recurring theme, BOOOOOOOOO to the officials for not calling holding:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-getting-held/2011/09/12/gIQAQOxFNK_blog.html

If you look at the screen shot, the Giants player doesn't have a handfull of jersey, and the refs key on a jersey being held on to. I don't know how the rules are actually stated, so this could be a non infraction, but it sure as hell looks like holding to me.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Or maybe he needs to take a dive or two when he realizes he's being held. I mean if it is blatant, which occurs quite often, he needs to fall to the ground to bring the attention to him. I think he's just too proud to dive like that, but if it is the only thing that is going to make the ref notice, then...take a dive Rak! Take a dive!

He does have those bright-yellow gloves and seemed to be waving them around as he was blatantly held. A dive could lead to injury, which would be bad.

 

[Elephant]

He does have those bright-yellow gloves and seemed to be waving them around as he was blatantly held. A dive could lead to injury, which would be bad.

I don't want this to sound personal, but that is just foolish. Taking a dive does not lead to injuries. I would like you to show me a pattern where that would be the case. And if the yellow gloves flailing isn't getting the call as it is now, then why would you even say that?

I think Miles may be onto something as to our understanding of a hold. I have attached a pic that shows the lineman getting up into Markus White's throat. I couldn't find the images of Rak nearly being strangled like this image of White, but I have posted many of them here before. Had he fallen to the ground, it would have been more likely to have been called a hold. I mean the lineman was practically choking him, on this play it was not called a hold.

Is this considered holding? Well, if the defender ends up on the ground, it is almost always called. But this happens to Rak all the time. So we are either misunderstanding the rules or...

 

[gbear]

I'd like to see a picture of the hold the Redskins were called for when we had the 15 yard run. The one replay looked like the Redskin flat out knocked the guy backwards to the ground, but they were both squared shoulders parallel to each other. When I saw the play and the flag, my thoguhts went immediately to what it seems to take for our D to draw a holding call.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I don't want this to sound personal, but that is just foolish. Taking a dive does not lead to injuries. I would like you to show me a pattern where that would be the case. And if the yellow gloves flailing isn't getting the call as it is now, then why would you even say that?

Ummm, okay. Throwing himself on the ground with a bunch of 300+ pound men stomping around sounds like a GREAT idea that couldn't POSSIBLY result in injury.

I think Miles may be onto something as to our understanding of a hold. I have attached a pic that shows the lineman getting up into Markus White's throat. I couldn't find the images of Rak nearly being strangled like this image of White, but I have posted many of them here before. Had he fallen to the ground, it would have been more likely to have been called a hold. I mean the lineman was practically choking him, on this play it was not called a hold.

Is this considered holding? Well, if the defender ends up on the ground, it is almost always called. But this happens to Rak all the time. So we are either misunderstanding the rules or...

http://blog.redskins.com/2010/09/13/brian-orakpo-wins-the-game-with-a-holding-penalty/

That's the play that was called back against Dallas.

Here's the play against Tampa last year:

Here's the play against Houston last year:

 

[redskins26]

I think the Holding penalty is a judgement call based on what the play is and where it is going if the hold occurs where they think a sack will occur they will call it or if it opens up a lane for a running back they will call it very rarely do you see holds away from the play called

 

[Lanky Livingston]

From the NFL rule book:

Note: Pass blocking: Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker immediately worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender—i.e., hook an opponent—are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.

Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

Hooking an opponent with an arm is clearly illegal. If it happens too much to call, then they should change the rule. But as stated, its a clear holding violation.

 

[Elephant]

From the NFL rule book:

Note: Pass blocking: Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker immediately worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender—i.e., hook an opponent—are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

And that's my point, not an attack on you. I saw what the rule book says, but at what point is what you and I clearly see, considered a hold.

I agree it should be called, but when the defender remains standing, fighting to get past the offensive lineman, yet he is not getting the call, there is something you and I are missing. The continuation of the play could make it seem like he has not lost his advantage. I suggest that if he goes to the ground when the lineman is clearly choking him, he has clearly lost position and will get the call.

And Lanky, the majority of times this occurs, Rak is isolated on the edge without a crowd of lineman around him. The idea that an injury is eminent is not accurate. You can provide no proof that your claim (If he takes a dive it increases his chance for injury) has merit.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And that's my point, not an attack on you. I saw what the rule book says, but at what point is what you and I clearly see, considered a hold.

I agree it should be called, but when the defender remains standing, fighting to get past the offensive lineman, yet he is not getting the call, there is something you and I are missing. The continuation of the play could make it seem like he has not lost his advantage. I suggest that if he goes to the ground when the lineman is clearly choking him, he has clearly lost position and will get the call.

Eh, I lean more towards the blind/mentally challenged referees explanation.

And Lanky, the majority of times this occurs, Rak is isolated on the edge without a crowd of lineman around him. The idea that an injury is eminent is not accurate. You can provide no proof that your claim (If he takes a dive it increases his chance for injury) has merit.

That's impossible to prove either way, so I don't really get your point. And the OL holding him is right next to him, and it would only take one guy stepping on him to injure him.

I mean, guys tear their ACLs with zero contact; you can't tell me you don't think an ACL tear is possible while going down awkwardly with a 300-pound dude draped over you.

 

[Elephant]

Eh, I lean more towards the blind/mentally challenged referees explanation.

I would agree with this if we hadn't been dealing with it for 2 years now. It was called against Dallas in the season opener last year, but other than that? Over the past 2 years this play, Rak getting nearly strangled, continues to go uncalled. There has to be something more to it. We are missing something. What is it?

1.) Is there an interpretation of this rule we do not know about?
2.) Are the refs really that blind?
3.) Is Rak in need of another move?
4.) Should Rak take a dive to bring notice to it?

We are obviously missing something here.