CBS Washington: Jarvis Jenkins Impressing At Camp

[Yusuf06]

You've just offended little girls everywhere. If anything parents should be turning it around by telling their kids not to act like "a little Haynesworth".

 

[Goaldeje]

As the father of a 13, 10, and 4 year old girl, I approve Yusuf's message. My 13 year old just ran cross country practice with a huge blister on her heel. Ya think Fat Al woulda done that?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

My apologies to little girls everywhere for comparing them to Albert Haynesworth. Maybe I should have added "prissy" or "spoiled" or some other appropriate adjective.

 

[Elephant]

Last year was a joke because of one primadonna's unwillingness to sacrifice stats for the good of the team. The NT position is of upmost importance, and because of Fat Albert, we were thin there. And before you go on about how he didn't fit the 3-4, blah blah blah, I don't care. We have to agree to disagree on that. He's a professional - either way he should have buttoned down and gave it his best go. Instead, he pouted and came in to camp out of shape.

You're right about Fat Al, but he was not even remotely close to the "reason" our defense sucked last year. Even Om had misgivings about Haslett before the season even started.

http://www.theomfield.com/2010/01/jim-haslett-really.html

I know. I know. There was some progression toward the end of the season and we are going to be in our 2nd year in this scheme. Using a term you and I both like, blah! Blah! Blah!

Haslett was a poor choice to run the 3-4 here. I mean, we should have won that Colts game. What was the no down lineman BS he ran that Peyton picked apart? He didn't confuse anybody with that! And oh...he didn't even get any pressure on Peyton by doing it, none!

 

[Lanky Livingston]

You're right about Fat Al, but he was not even remotely close to the "reason" our defense sucked last year. Even Om had misgivings about Haslett before the season even started.

Not even remotely close? Come on! You could give Rex Ryan the keys to our defense without a true NT and we'd struggle. Yes, I agree Haslett was not a great choice, but he was missing arguably the most important part of the 3-4!

 

[Elephant]

Not even remotely close? Come on! You could give Rex Ryan the keys to our defense without a true NT and we'd struggle. Yes, I agree Haslett was not a great choice, but he was missing arguably the most important part of the 3-4!

OK, the lack of an NT is a legitimate reason, Big Al is not. Was he a part? Absolutely! But the reason? No. It was a package of terrible scheme, wrong pieces to run the faulty defense, and circus arena atmosphere. Albert Haynesworth playing the NT would not have made us that much better, if at all.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

el is right. sorry lanky but you are wrong. Long before we even signed shanny Albert was very clear that he wouldnt play NT, he couldnt have been more clear, now you can say he was unprofessional (and he was) but the simple fact was that relying on a guy to play a position he flat out stated he wouldnt play? is stupid. even had he played NT he would have been decent perhaps solid, and that wouldnt have changed the fact that almost nobody fit this scheme last year and we had an OLD roster who played OLD.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

No, I am not wrong. Haynesworth and all his drama contributed to the downfall of the defense significantly last season! Ryman continues to make excuses for him but the fact remains that Haynesworth was promised something by a lame-duck GM & head coach. He should have known better. He took the money, he should play whatever position they want. If they wanted him to play free safety, he better be out there every day after practice running wind sprints! Come on, this is just common sense.

With a solid NT, all the non-fits to the scheme would have been slightly less glaring. As it was, DeAngelo Hall and Landry played very well with little to no pressure on the QB. Imagine if there had been consistent pressure?

Ryman, I respect your opinion as someone who has played football, but I refuse to believe that the D would have been as bad as it was if Haynesworth had committed to playing NT. Period. You can either continue to argue, or agree to disagree - its your choice. But you're not going to change my mind.

As to the no down linemen formation - Haslett was forced to try new things without an adequate NT. Again, we'd have never seen that formation if Fattie had done his job.

 

[Elephant]

As to the no down linemen formation - Haslett was forced to try new things without an adequate NT. Again, we'd have never seen that formation if Fattie had done his job.

And you know this how?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And you know this how?

Just a guess...when you have no pressure from your down lineman, you have to find ways to make pressure.

 

[Elephant]

Just a guess...when you have no pressure from your down lineman, you have to find ways to make pressure.

And that is the reason I place more blame on Haslett and his scheme than anything else that contributed to our defensive woes last year. I understand the need to apply more pressure on the QB, especially with Peyton Manning in the pocket, but the schemes he ran in that game were amateurish at best.

Look, I agree with you whole heartedly about Haynesworth. If he had given any effort, it could have been at least somewhat better, but how much would he have played?

 

[Goaldeje]

Gonna go ahead and chime in and give my (unwanted) two cents. At first, I think the blame has to laid pretty much squarely on Fat Al's rather mammoth shoulders. But as time went on, and Haslett & Co. began to see that no matter how much they threatened/cajoled/begged/pleaded/etc with Fat Al, it made no difference at all in his performance or willingness to adjust, I think you have to shift some of that blame to Haslett.

El is right, Haslett's "schemes" in that Indy game were appalling. Almost to the same level of Swinging Gate level appalling. Not quite, but almost. At some point, it's a long season and Haslett & Co. needed to realize that Fat Al was a useless, fat tub of lard, and they had no alternative on the roster for NT. So at that point, adjust.

They did not. And our defense was embarassing last year.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And that is the reason I place more blame on Haslett and his scheme than anything else that contributed to our defensive woes last year. I understand the need to apply more pressure on the QB, especially with Peyton Manning in the pocket, but the schemes he ran in that game were amateurish at best.

Look, I agree with you whole heartedly about Haynesworth. If he had given any effort, it could have been at least somewhat better, but how much would he have played?

So you agree, but you still blame Haslett? He was trying to make gold out of lead...I'm not sure anyone would have succeeded with the personnel we had! Why do you think Steve Spagnuolo scoffed at coming to DC, and then left for St. Louis a year later? Its not coincidence.

Haslett was just a little more desperate.

 

[Elephant]

So you agree, but you still blame Haslett? He was trying to make gold out of lead...I'm not sure anyone would have succeeded with the personnel we had! Why do you think Steve Spagnuolo scoffed at coming to DC, and then left for St. Louis a year later? Its not coincidence.

Haslett was just a little more desperate.

Spags didn't want to be here because Vinny would have been in charge still. It had nothing to do with the talent we had. If Blache could get a 5 and a 10 ranking out of that defense, Spags could have gotten much more from them. We had personnel that Spags could have worked with.

Haslett, on the other hand, turned a 10 ranked defense into a 31st ranked defense. I would say that has more to do with scheme than anything else.

edit: And I agreed that Haynesworth was a huge POS, not that he was the reason our defense was so bad.

 

[Bulldog]

Some of guys are missing the point.

Whatever Haynesworth or McNabb did or didn't do, Shanahan is being paid a top salary to anticipate who fits into the concepts the team is running whether the issue might be lack of talent or in AH's case a lack of motivation.

Haynesworth should have been dealt back to TN for that #4 pick last year. He ended up leaving a year later for less compensation and I am not at all sure that any lessons were taught to anyone.

Players still say it was a distraction and Haynesworth just went to a contender.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Some of guys are missing the point.

Whatever Haynesworth or McNabb did or didn't do, Shanahan is being paid a top salary to anticipate who fits into the concepts the team is running whether the issue might be lack of talent or in AH's case a lack of motivation.

Haynesworth should have been dealt back to TN for that #4 pick last year. He ended up leaving a year later for less compensation and I am not at all sure that any lessons were taught to anyone.

Players still say it was a distraction and Haynesworth just went to a contender.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Chicken and the egg argument - we can go in circles all day long. Bottom line: Haynesworth was paid a buttload of money, and they weren't going to just dump him for a 4th round pick without seeing if he'd actually play in the 3-4. He didn't, whined and pouted all season, showed his true character. I don't blame Shanahan one bit for not getting rid of the fat POS - with what we paid him, he should have been cleaning the park, washing cars, and selling popcorn on game days! Ridiculous!

 

[Elephant]

Chicken and the egg argument - we can go in circles all day long. Bottom line: Haynesworth was paid a buttload of money, and they weren't going to just dump him for a 4th round pick without seeing if he'd actually play in the 3-4. He didn't, whined and pouted all season, showed his true character. I don't blame Shanahan one bit for not getting rid of the fat POS - with what we paid him, he should have been cleaning the park, washing cars, and selling popcorn on game days! Ridiculous!

And this is what we agree upon.

But I don't buy into the fact that our defense was terrible because he refused to play. It wasn't terrible the year before with the same players. I blame Haslett! And blame could be placed on Shanny's shoulders for bringing him in to run a 3-4.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And this is what we agree upon.

But I don't buy into the fact that our defense was terrible because he refused to play. It wasn't terrible the year before with the same players. I blame Haslett! And blame could be placed on Shanny's shoulders for bringing him in to run a 3-4.

Well, like Ryman and I, we'll have to agree to disagree. I am confident that the defense could have at least matched its 2009 output (which wasn't that good if we're being honest - 10th in yards but 18th in scoring) or been slightly worse had Haynesworth put his nose to the grindstone and done his job.

 

[Elephant]

Well, like Ryman and I, we'll have to agree to disagree. I am confident that the defense could have at least matched its 2009 output (which wasn't that good if we're being honest - 10th in yards but 18th in scoring) or been slightly worse had Haynesworth put his nose to the grindstone and done his job.

And I am perplexed by your assertion, but we can agree to disagree. Let's hope I am wrong to think Haslett is what's wrong with this defense!

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I created a thread for this argument, this is a thread for Jenkins (who I hope plays like AH when he was motivated). bottom line is that someone drastically misjudged the talents ability to play a 3-4 , one guy not playing shouldnt kill a defence.