Building a team, with what we currently have

[Win4us]

Wonder if Dirty Willy would consider Moses at C? I'd be curious how he'd work out there. Both tackle spots for him has been a hot mess.

 

[fansince62]

you guys advocating defence missed the point I think.

you build the oline because they are the ones who your offence revolves around, you can make a decent qb good and a good qb great if you protect him and give him a solid run game. the reason you build your oline first, is because you can and should turn a defence around with one years resources, one year of concentrating the draft and free agency on defence with good coaching and scheme and you can literally go worst to first, while offence takes time to gel and Olinemen take some seasoning. more importantly you keep your playmaker healthy.

when I say maximise Rg3s value its not just because of what we paid and how far it set us back, its also because you do not want to waste those resources and frankly he is more than good enough to transition us if thats all he turns out to be we NEED to get this Oline built, its been garbage for too long.

I am always ok with BPA, I have been vocal about that, my issue was always with the gumbies doing the evaluations, I do not want a corner or a safety with our first, because frankly neither of them is gonna make this team that much better.

understandable.

I think your logic in the orig posts misses a key point. among other things....the budget side of the equation. the team is not going to stash all its investment dollars in an LT, wide receivers, number 5 pick RT/G/C, a future QB whether Griffin or someone else who succeeds....and leave the defensive shelves unstocked. not going to happen IMO. this, of course, gets down to strategy. all I'm noting is that the strategy has more components to it - in the cap era - than just picking piece parts.

 

[Boone]

Wonder if Dirty Willy would consider Moses at C? I'd be curious how he'd work out there. Both tackle spots for him has been a hot mess.

It's very premature to write off Moses after barely a sniff of game action (he also had several injuries to contend with last season). We came into the NFL with ideal physical size, but was obviously a bit of a project player. So expecting him to immediately start was probably unrealistic. Step one is seeing if he can come back from a major injury.

 

[Boone]

He may prove to be a bust we don't know. But what we do know is that you don't know

 

[servumtuum]

Below is the Redskins list of unrestricted free agents:

Unrestricted

Colt McCoy, QB
Leonard Hankerson, WR
Santana Moss, WR
Jarvis Jenkins, DE
Chris Neild, NT
Brian Orakpo, LB
E.J. Biggers, CB
Ryan Clark, FS
Niles Paul, TE
Roy Helu, RB
Tyler Polumbus, OL
Brandon Meriweather, SS



Going back to the title of this thread for a moment, "Building a team with what we currently have", given this list of Redskins unrestricted free agents, is there anybody...anybody we should keep? Perhaps I should separate the word "anybody" into two words-any body on this list? Forget sentimental attachments, forget, hoped-for development, based solely on what we have seen in terms of actual productive play that warrants keeping on the roster in the face of a new McLovin perspective philosophy of team development-adding Jay G.'s type of coaching to the mix along with whoever the new DC turns out to be.

Let me rephrase the question, are there, on this list, any players on that list essential to the hoped-for improvement of the Redskins into a genuinely competitive NFL team to be taken seriously as a potential playoff contender?

I'm having trouble not considering almost the whole list as expendable.

Maybe not Helu.

 

[Boone]

Depends on where we can upgrade in the draft and FA to an extent (unlikely we can upgrade at every spot). But no, I agree - few keepers on that list. Gut reaction, I keep Helu, McCoy, and Meriweather (who is better than fans give him credit for if he can be taught to play smarter) at least as a stop gap guy until we find a long-term player at that spot. McCoy is a cheap safety valve we should keep around.

Any of those guys are expendable too though if we make moves at that position.

 

[Ax]

Keeping McCoy would take QB off the need list for one more season.
If Rak would sign a totally team friendly contract, I'd keep him too.

Everyone else is expendable, and would not be missed.

Oh, and gotta disagree Boone. Meriweather is only marginal in run support. He sucks in coverage. And that's being nice.

 

[Neophyte]

Helu, McCoy and Neild.

 

[Ax]

Helu doesn't appear any better at pass pro than he did as a rookie. Redd can fill his shoes, IMO.

 

[fansince62]

1) Rak if friendly contract

2) Santana for the slot

3) Paul for ST

I don't keep McCoy: injury problems like Griffin, weak arm, Cousins has higher upside...

 

[MikeSr619]

Roy Helu is like Sproles in space...yeah, I said it. You get him that ball coming out of the backfield and he averages almost 13 yards per reception. He may suck in pass pro but so do most RBs. We were lucky (and a little spoiled) with Portis adjusting to what we needed him to be.

Via con dios, TanaMan. You are one of my all time favorite Skins of the modern era but your time in the NFL has come to a conclusion. You provided heart beyond measure, and you are as tough as they come. Father Time just caught you and that is IT.

All the rest....buh bye. Colt, maybe. But he needs to ride the pine with the clipboard and stop with this "I can be a starter crap".

 

[Ax]

1) Rak if friendly contract

2) Santana for the slot

3) Paul for ST

I don't keep McCoy: injury problems like Griffin, weak arm, Cousins has higher upside...

I'm with you on 1.
Love Tana, but it's time to go.
I only keep Paul if I can't replace him with a younger, stronger, faster, multidimensional player. Shouldn't be too hard. ST is the only thing he's adequate at.
Griffin, Cousins, and The Colt would be ok with me. If Mr McGlue drafts a mid-late prospect, Colt is a goner. Unless we can find some idiot to give us something for Cousins.

 

[Bulldog]

I don't want to see Orakpo retained. I think we need to move on and find fresh faces on defense.

Santana needs to go, as do both of the starting safeties for 2014 Clark and Meriweather. These guys are on the wrong side of 30 and are deep backup quality at this stage of their careers and I think we would rather see the team build with 22 and 23 year old backups with some upside as opposed to 34 and 35 year olds.

One of the big reasons our running game was off this past season was the failure of the tight ends and receivers to block in that phase.

If Reed is starting at 235 which is quarterback size in the NFL now, we need our #2 and #3 ends to be solid in line blockers.

Paul at 232 is still a wide receiver. Paulsen simply had a poor season.

At receiver, Garcon is a good blocker. But when you team him with the 5'9 170 Jackson, obviously that changes what you are able to do on the outside on one side of the line of scrimmage.

So, we need more size at WR.

Again, Moss needs to go. The team finally cut ties with Aldrick Robinson (thank God!) and it appears as if Leonard Hankerson is going to walk which is fine considering he spends more time in the training room than on the field.

Andre Roberts? He looked awful last year as a returner and as a #3 receiver he dropped a number of key passes.

If the dollars are not too much to the negative, perhaps we need to let him go as well.

 

[Boone]

Merriweather is underrated. He's our most physical DB and if we had even a decent scheme and 2 legitimate corners instead of 1, he would be better than most expect. Not a long term solution, but worth keeping until we have a couple stud safeties.

 

[Bulldog]

Disagree. Meriweather is an inconsistent player who follows up a good game with disappearing in the next. The other factor in this is attitude. Meriweather is a knucklehead. That is what got him bounced from New England. He takes ill-timed penalties for late hits and personal fouls and at 31 is not the kind of leader we need in the secondary.

If Bill Bellichick and Lovie Smith don't have a use for Meriweather you have to question his value in working successfully in a defense that hopes to play 16 consistent weeks.

 

[Ax]

I don't hold Meriweather's release from the Pats or Bears against him. Just his play, here. Which is turrable.

Decent in run support only.
Total suckage in coverage.

 

[Boone]

Ah, but you just said it - he HAS good games. That's why he's the best safety on the roster right now. And that's why I say you keep him until you upgrade (unless you believe Phillip Thomas has a future). I agree he's a knucklehead at times, but I think he'd perform better with better coaching.

 

[servumtuum]

Roy Helu is like Sproles in space...yeah, I said it. You get him that ball coming out of the backfield and he averages almost 13 yards per reception. He may suck in pass pro but so do most RBs. We were lucky (and a little spoiled) with Portis adjusting to what we needed him to be.

Via con dios, TanaMan. You are one of my all time favorite Skins of the modern era but your time in the NFL has come to a conclusion. You provided heart beyond measure, and you are as tough as they come. Father Time just caught you and that is IT.

All the rest....buh bye. Colt, maybe. But he needs to ride the pine with the clipboard and stop with this "I can be a starter crap".

I agree with a lot of what you have here Mike, Tana was a solid who could outrun a lot except time.

You have no idea how much I miss Clinton Portis' ability to brick-wall a blitzing LB-I would love to have a RB who could block even half as well.


Helu is interesting. There is one outstanding feature he has that in one category puts him as a potentially elite status.-as a RB receiving passes.

First he caught 89.4% of all passes where was the target-the best reception percentage on the Redskins for anyone with 30 or more receptions.

It's also how he performs after catching a pass. He averages gaining 12.6 yards after the catch-10th highest in the league and #1 for RBs for a total of 530 yards gained after the catch.

He's in interesting company among very good pass catching RBs with only 42 receptions there as well:

Eddie Lacy Green Bay-42 receptions 10.9 yards average after the catch.

Marshawn Lynch -Seattle 37 receptions 11.2 yards after the catch

Darren Sproles- Eagles 40 receptions 10.6 yards average after the catch.

I'd be reluctant to see that useful a tool go by the wayside to be honest.

 

[Bulldog]

OK, so we hold onto Meriweather until a breathing human being that can walk and put on a uniform as a safety walks through the door

 

[Ax]

Every second Meriweather is on the team, is more time taken away from someone who might actually be worth keeping.

He's Archuletta without the big contract.