• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

Bruce Allen = Puppet? Scouting Department =Unchanged?

One of many experimental iterations ...

What did you think Allen's role was with the team?


  • Total voters
    19

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,884
Reaction score
504
Points
1,143

Florida State

DeCosta in Baltimore! Been saying it for 3 years since Shanahan was brought in. Snyder needs to change this: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/01/06/decosta-ravens/index.html

It's time for Snyder to walk the fine line of ownership in the NFL. I think KDawg is right, Snyder is learning from his mistakes. But the newest lesson/mistake he needs to realize is having given an ex-SB champion coach too much authority. He needs to strip Shanahan of one of his titles. If he wants to coach, fine...let him coach. If he wants to be personnel guy, then put him in the front office with a much improved personnel department.


I suggested in another thread that maybe we should shove Shanahan into the front office, hand the reigns over to Kyle and bring in a quality DC with free reign to run the defense his way. Well, maybe it's time for Snyder to suggest to Mike that his time is up, but we'd like to keep Kyle on as head coach to continue what Mike started. Pay DeCosta outrageous money to come in here and replicate what Baltimore has done. I know Ozzie gets a lot of credit up there, but DeCosta has been an integral part of their success for more than 10 years.

I know this is all a pipe dream, but damn! I am tired of the product we've seen for 20 years now. We have just made an incredible investment in our future with Griff. We need to give him the support he needs to succeed or the tremendous price we paid will be for naught. I am afraid if we continue to go down this road with Shanahan we will be right back where we started before he got here...a hot mess!

I think McD5 is wearing on me... ;)
 
Last edited:

Lanky Livingston

Guest
He's certainly learning. Not at a quick pace. But the organizational structure has gotten better in the last three years.

But there is still room for improvement.
Gorillas learn sign language faster than Snyder learns how to run a football team.
 

the Omniscient

The Starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
0
Points
0


Shanahan has an ego, and while I can't claim that I know that Shanahan doesn't listen to his scouts, I do know that he likes to watch cut ups of each guy that the team is interested in and decide on who he likes. If a scout thinks they found a diamond in the rough but his film doesn't jump out to Shanahan, then that guy is likely to be outcast.
Also, and I don't know if this is still true with the Skins, but when he was in Denver the rumor was that he only wanted to see the good things that a player could do. He never wanted to see the bad. He thought he could coach any player up to the level he thinks they can play.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't agree with what you said about his quarterback choices. The only reason being that it is the hardest thing to get. You can make that statement about every coach out there. He has to take chances, just like every other coach.

9.99999999999999999/10 the wrong QB is chosen.

Shanahan was a big mistake. We will see how the rest of the season plays out.
 

tshile

Guest
It is distressing to know that after all these years, the danny still evidently has little use for a proper scouting department. That is one reason we sucked balls for the first few years after he caem along, because he fired most of the scouting department.

Again, disappointing, but not surprising that he hasn't built the department up
I'm not an expert in the field, but...

My understanding, both from people I know who work(ed) for the organization and what has been said on the radio, is that our scouting department is actually pretty good. The problem is that the scouting department doesn't make the decisions - they just produce reports.


Vinny Cerato just didn't listen to them. Malcomb Kelly - yeah they told Vinny he had health problems and was not worth a second round pick. Devin Thomas - again, not worth a second round pick. The list goes on.

In fact, the rumor is that when Shanahan decided to keep the scouting department the biggest factor in that decision was reviewing their reports. The first thing he did was spend days going over all their reports - majority of the draft/signing blunders had two things in common:
-The scouting department correctly identified problems with the individual and suggested a significantly lower price/draft pick (if they didn't outright suggest we not take the player) for the player,
- Vinny decided to take the player anyways. Whether that be for whatever draft pick he wanted, or signing the player for the price he wanted.
 

Bulldog

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
15,799
Reaction score
503
Points
393
Location
Bethesda Md


Shanahan made a lot of mistakes in Year 1 that the club is still rebounding from.

He overestimated the talent on the roster and gave up picks in some bad trades.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 

Dead Money

, Mike Wise HATE'r
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
4,799
Reaction score
5
Points
68


So, we're all just making the assumption that Allen is a genius when it comes to personnel and that we'd be so much better off if he was driving decision-making, not Shanahan?

Dunno if I buy that. I'll also add that while we've blown some pretty major pickups (McNabb, McRib, and others), the cap penalty 'surprise' was a devastating blow. We might be in a lot better position were it not for that BS. The price we paid for RG3 is going to make it even tougher over the next several years.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I thought Allen had more influence in the personnel moves than what Lombardi is suggesting. I have no idea whether or not he's qualified to make such decisions, I just blindly accepted him as a "GM" assuming the structure of the FO was the opposite of what we had in the past with Vinnie.

I'm with you that there were a lot of other factors, but for I've never been a fan of coach/GM types. I think in this day and age they get stretched too thin. With the financial advantage Snyder has above most franchises, we should have a management structure that exploits it. I feel were setup at a disadvantge and still don't know why. Is it the ego I keep hearing about?
 

KDawg

The 1st Round Pick
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
590
Reaction score
0
Points
0

College at Brockport

If you'll notice, there's a common thread to this story: An owner who is UNWILLING to hand control over to an unhindered/legitimate GM with hire and fire authority.

We need a real, autonomous GM...otherwise we continue to be the Pukes.
I may be overly optimistic here, but I think that's the next phase in his personal learning trajectory.

I don't think Snyder wants to be a failure, to be honest. I think he wants to learn, but I'm not sure he knew what being an owner was all about when he first came on. He lived in fan land. He's starting to transition, I think. But he's still got a way to go. And your suggestion of finding a true GM would go a LONG way to prove he has learned.
 

Rymanofthenorth

BGObsessed
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
5,659
Reaction score
88
Points
128
Location
I live in the warmest city in the coldest provinc

UTEP

snyder if anything goes too far with his learning lol

Oh I hired an old legend from college and it didnt work? ill hire an old legend from our past, oh it idnt work? Ill hire a young up and coming coach, oh that didnt work, I will do ANYTHING to get a credible HoF coach, even if i have to give him way too much control.

Henry, sounding like me isnt bad, not when you are right lmao. and in this you have been right, Kdawg has been right and Elephant has been right, if you go back 3 years and look at what all of us have said from the start? we have been consistent in our views and it would appear we were correct.

we need to spend money on a GM on a scouting department and on facilities that are worthy of the second most valuable franchise in the NFL.
 

Bulldog

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
15,799
Reaction score
503
Points
393
Location
Bethesda Md


Snyder has stopped trying to trade or sign as free agents expensive players from other teams who have won in the past and may be on the downside.

That in a way is progress.

But what he has done is transfer that penchant for reaching for past success in hiring Shanahan.

It's another case of paying top of the market prices for what a guy did somewhere else a long time ago.

Shanahan last won a Super Bowl 13 years ago.

When Bobby Beathard came here the first thing he did was get rid of Jack Pardee and bring in an up and comer in Joe Gibbs, an assistant who fans weren't that familiar with but who had a high reputation in football circles.

That's what good GMs do.

They don't need to hire a coach that won a Super Bowl in the past.

These GMs are in the business of BUILDING a team that will get a young, smart, energetic coach a Super Bowl title.

But Snyder doesn't have the expertise of finding the next Joe Gibbs or the next Sean Payton.

That's why he needs a legitimate GM to run the organization.

I am convinced Shanahan is better than Zorn or Cerrato, but am also convinced that he reached his plateau years ago when he was in his late 40's and early 50's.

At 61, he is past his prime and in some ways over his head in terms of trying to run an entire football operation from the draft to free agency to coaching up the defense as well as the offense.

He's not willing to delegate.

It's slowly choking off any chance this team has to improve.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
    Top