2025 Washington Commanders Camp / Preseason

[Voice_of_Reason]

Remember Osaka.

Actually... it's better to forget it.

Slight digression, but of all of Dan Snyder's sins as an owner purely on he football side, firing Marty to hire Spurrier is at the top of the list and second place is not close.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Or it could just be gas. 😉

 

[Anselmheifer]

View attachment 12139

Slight digression, but of all of Dan Snyder's sins as an owner purely on he football side, firing Marty to hire Spurrier is at the top of the list and second place is not close.

I think hiring Bruce Allen was worse. That gives you the Cousins debacle, the Trent Williams debacle(shared with Ron), all of the terrible drafts and terrible FA classes. I think his impact lasted longer and was more widespread.

Although…..the Rivera hiring wound up pretty fucking terrible. I’ve literally never seen draft classes that bad, and we are still paying the piper for that.

 

[skinsinparadise]

On the OL, I do agree with Keim, however, that the OL is going to be better in November than in September. You put that tidbit into a different post, but I'll use this one as the jumping off point. However, I thought that going into camp, I don't think that's new news or should shock anybody. The OL last year really was mostly productive because they played together well as a unit, not because of their individual talent. But look at the changes:

LT: Tunsil in for Coleman
LG: Coleman in for Allegretti
C: Biadasz stays put
RG: Allegretti in for Cosmi (for now)
RT: Conerly Jr. in for Wylie (maybe, might be Wylie.

Just think about the scenarios:
- Only one of the 5 starting OL will be playing in the same spot as last year (Biadasz).
- At MOST they will have 2 players in their same spot from last year if Conerly Jr. doesn't beat out Wylie. But they WANT Conerly Jr. to beat out Wylie, so having Wylie play is clearly not ideal. Hail Raiser would be happy to comment on what he thinks of Wylie.
- Conerly is shifting from the left side to the right side from college. I think people discount how hard this is to do. Somebody, might have been Logan Paulsen, said everything is backwards, you have to learn new footwork, kick steps, etc. I think somebody else, it might have been JP, said it was like somebody who has learned to write with their right hand learning to write with their left hand. So, it's going to take a hot minute.
- Coleman is moving from tackle to guard, which is an adjustment.
- Allegretti is also going from left to right

There is just no stability at all on the OL. This was one of my overall concerns with the approach going into the season, however I fully endorse the approach because I think it's going to bode well for the future.

But to the point the line will be better later in the season (injuries aside), I completely agree.

I actually doubt Conerly is going to start the season as the starting RT. I think it's going to be Wylie, and I wouldn't be even remotely shocked if they implemented the same plan they used with Coleman last year at LT: rotate him in for a few series here and there early in the season as they get him up to speed. Then he slowly takes over for Wylie by Halloween.

Long term, I think they've made huge improvements to the OL. Short term, I think it's going to be a work in progress.

Yep. O line play is often about teamwork-continuity and this O line has so many new moving parts. My fear is actually game 1, the Giants D line is ferocious, their LBs are good, too. And they've upgraded their secondary.

Russell Wilson isn't great but he did beat us last year and was a 2 point away from beating us the year before. An upset by the Giants, would feel deflating.

And it feels like there is some possibility of it.

A. Giants seem determined from what I read to get off to a stronger start this season by playing their starters more in the preseason. Doesn't seem like this team will do the same.
B. This team played poorly in the first two games last year -- almost lost to the Giants, and likely would have lost if the Giants had a kicker that day
C. Giants strength -- D line versus position weakness of Washington O line.
D. Terry assuming he plays might be rusty ala how J. Chase played in the first two games last season after also holding out
E. Motivation -- much bigger deal for NY to pull an upset than Washington beating NY

 

[skinsinparadise]

Listening to Standig just now. He said Lane has looked good in camp. But playing slot.

But he's doubling down with what others have said the outside WRs haven't really stood out and Zaccheus and Dyami for their faults looked better than this group at Z-X.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think hiring Bruce Allen was worse. That gives you the Cousins debacle, the Trent Williams debacle(shared with Ron), all of the terrible drafts and terrible FA classes. I think his impact lasted longer and was more widespread.

Although…..the Rivera hiring wound up pretty fucking terrible. I’ve literally never seen draft classes that bad, and we are still paying the piper for that.

Wrong thread for this, but I'll debate that to the death. Firing Marty set all the other pieces in motion. It did give us Gibbs II, which was great, but Marty went on to have tremendous success in San Diego, and got fired after a 14-2 season. Dude could still coach.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yep. O line play is often about teamwork-continuity and this O line has so many new moving parts. My fear is actually game 1, the Giants D line is ferocious, their LBs are good, too. And they've upgraded their secondary.

Russell Wilson isn't great but he did beat us last year and was a 2 point away from beating us the year before. An upset by the Giants, would feel deflating.

And it feels like there is some possibility of it.

A. Giants seem determined from what I read to get off to a stronger start this season by playing their starters more in the preseason. Doesn't seem like this team will do the same.
B. This team played poorly in the first two games last year -- almost lost to the Giants, and likely would have lost if the Giants had a kicker that day
C. Giants strength -- D line versus position weakness of Washington O line.
D. Terry assuming he plays might be rusty ala how J. Chase played in the first two games last season after also holding out
E. Motivation -- much bigger deal for NY to pull an upset than Washington beating NY

Add to that, week 1's are always wonky and never a good indication of what's to come. And it's a division game.

That said, I do have a lot of faith in the coaching staff and JD5, and that might be enough to overcome early season wonkiness.

Last year, I think the team played "ok" against Tampa, given it was the first season with an entirely new coaching staff and a rookie QB, against a pretty good team.

The Giants was close, but again, division games are always close.

The thing about last year was what you could see from game 1, to game 2 to game 3 was JD5 was improving.

I'm not sure a loss would be deflating for me. For most, maybe. But as I have said for years (and years and years) you never know what a team is until October anyway. The statistics stay Week 1 outcomes don't mean much in the overall success of a season. The good news is that game is at home. Playing up in New Jersey has been a house of horrors for this team my entire freaking life, and I'm almost 50. If we had to have the Giants in week 1, I'm glad it's at home.

I do somewhat disagree with the motivation factor. I think our team is going to be SUPER motivated to prove their run to the NFC Championship game wasn't a fluke.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Add to that, week 1's are always wonky and never a good indication of what's to come. And it's a division game.

That said, I do have a lot of faith in the coaching staff and JD5, and that might be enough to overcome early season wonkiness.

Last year, I think the team played "ok" against Tampa, given it was the first season with an entirely new coaching staff and a rookie QB, against a pretty good team.

The Giants was close, but again, division games are always close.

The thing about last year was what you could see from game 1, to game 2 to game 3 was JD5 was improving.

I'm not sure a loss would be deflating for me. For most, maybe. But as I have said for years (and years and years) you never know what a team is until October anyway. The statistics stay Week 1 outcomes don't mean much in the overall success of a season. The good news is that game is at home. Playing up in New Jersey has been a house of horrors for this team my entire freaking life, and I'm almost 50. If we had to have the Giants in week 1, I'm glad it's at home.

I do somewhat disagree with the motivation factor. I think our team is going to be SUPER motivated to prove their run to the NFC Championship game wasn't a fluke.

Division games are close for Washington especially against New York. But Dallas and the Eagles often destroy-rout the Giants. Washington doesn't though.

Agree week one tends to be wild and not telling.

My main fear about NY is they are likely uber motivated. New QB -- new beginnings -- killer D line, etc where this is a statement game from the jump. Plus as much as the Giants have struggled against the Eagles and Dallas over the years -- they almost always give Washington a hard time.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Wrong thread for this, but I'll debate that to the death. Firing Marty set all the other pieces in motion. It did give us Gibbs II, which was great, but Marty went on to have tremendous success in San Diego, and got fired after a 14-2 season. Dude could still coach.

I think its two different defintive moments for the franchise so its based on intepretation.

A. Dumping Marty for Spurrier was Dan planting his flag for good that he's going to run a clown show. His later hires especially Zorn was on brand because of that Spurrier hire.

B. Hiring Bruce arguably finished Dan off and ultimately for good. Dan put a smug incompetent politician in charge and his moves and his own behavior doubled down on the clownshow. This ultimately turned for a span the most successful franchise to near the bottom of the league both as to sales, relevance and winning.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am still surprised that BRob didn't get used more in the passing game last year. Based solely after his solid contributions in the passing game, 2 years ago.

My fantasy guy Jeff Mans is bearish on both RBob (between tackles only) and Ekeler (age/injury etc) and is saying its only a matter of time before Mr Bill takes over.

My question is... how is he in pass pro. Dare I think that is one thing BRob has him beat and history has shown a young guy struggling in pass pro may keep them off the field.

 

[RedWolf]

Fear no man (nor team). Welcome every challenge.

"A truly brave man is ever serene; he is never taken by surprise; nothing ruffles the equanimity of his spirit. In the heat of battle he remains cool; in the midst of catastrophes he keeps level his mind. Earthquakes do not shake him, he laughs at storms."

- Inazo Nitobe
Bushido, the Soul of Japan

That quote reminded me of JD...🦍💪🦍

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

Listening to Standig just now. He said Lane has looked good in camp. But playing slot.

But he's doubling down with what others have said the outside WRs haven't really stood out and Zaccheus and Dyami for their faults looked better than this group at Z-X.

Uggghhh, alright...put a fork in these outside WR's. We know washed up guys like Gallup/Moore/etc were probably not the answer. But not the best look for Luke (who is a bit more of a slot than an outside guy). We already knew Lane wasn't much of a Z yet, he wasn't used like that in college.

Does anyone know a timetable for Noah Brown? Can he play in 1 month when the season starts?

 

[ExoDus84]

Reading back through yesterday's reports, it's kind of concerning to read our highly touted CBs struggling. If Sainristil and Lattimore can't lock down the dynamic duo of some guys named Kayshon Boutte and Demario Douglas, then we're in for a long, long season.

I'm also disappointed in the lack of progress of McCaffrey and Sinnott. I was high on these guys, but they've literally been invisible. Apparently the Bears' rookie TE, Colston Loveland, has really stood out in camp, so I suppose it is possible for TEs to make some kind of impact right away.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Listening to Standig just now. He said Lane has looked good in camp. But playing slot.

But he's doubling down with what others have said the outside WRs haven't really stood out and Zaccheus and Dyami for their faults looked better than this group at Z-X.

Looked better in camp or by the end of the season? I haven't gotten to Standig's pod yet.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Looked better in camp or by the end of the season? I haven't gotten to Standig's pod yet.

Looked good in camp. Others have said the same. Sounds like Lane is having a good camp.

But the other WRs aside from Noah, Lane, Deebo, haven't been hot.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think its two different defintive moments for the franchise so its based on intepretation.

A. Dumping Marty for Spurrier was Dan planting his flag for good that he's going to run a clown show. His later hires especially Zorn was on brand because of that Spurrier hire.

B. Hiring Bruce arguably finished Dan off and ultimately for good. Dan put a smug incompetent politician in charge and his moves and his own behavior doubled down on the clownshow. This ultimately turned for a span the most successful franchise to near the bottom of the league both as to sales, relevance and winning.

I'm going to start a thread on "Discussion on Redskins History" at some point so it doesn't derail threads. I actually would slide your B. 4 years later. I don't think it was hiring Bruce, because when they hired Bruce, Mike Shanahan was the ultimate boss and had final say on Roster and everything else.

The bigger mistake was when Dan fired Shanahan because he wanted to empower Griffin, he then elevated Bruce to President of Football Operations and gave him ultimate authority over everything, including hiring nepo-baby moron Jay Gruden, and then everything else that took place after it.

I put 2010-2013 mostly on Shanahan's room bill, for better or worse. Mike's title was "VP of Football and Head Coach" and Bruce's was "VP of Football and General Manager" and Mike had final roster say. Then in 2014 Bruce became President.

I'd also argue adding a third, which came WAY earlier: when Dan forced the signing of Jeff George when they already had Brad Johnson playing at a pro bowl level, but he didn't like the way Johnson played, he liked the big arm of George. I put that signing actually as worse than the Albert Haynesworth signing because it was a clear indication Dan would undo good things for no good reason.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

Reading back through yesterday's reports, it's kind of concerning to read our highly touted CBs struggling. If Sainristil and Lattimore can't lock down the dynamic duo of some guys named Kayshon Boutte and Demario Douglas, then we're in for a long, long season.

I'm also disappointed in the lack of progress of McCaffrey and Sinnott. I was high on these guys, but they've literally been invisible. Apparently the Bears' rookie TE, Colston Loveland, has really stood out in camp, so I suppose it is possible for TEs to make some kind of impact right away.

We don't really know what the coverages were. I saw something saying they were just plain vanilla, but that wasn't mentioned anywhere so it could have been a guess by the reporter/viewer/fan. If all the coverages were 2 High soft zone, then yeah it puts the corners in more of a pickle.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Looked good in camp. Others have said the same. Sounds like Lane is having a good camp.

But the other WRs aside from Noah, Lane, Deebo, haven't been hot.

Sorry, I got that part.

What I was asking is when Standig said D. Brown and Z looked better than the cadre of folks this year, was he comparing what they ended up looking like at the end of the season.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

I'm going to start a thread on "Discussion on Redskins History" at some point so it doesn't derail threads. I actually would slide your B. 4 years later. I don't think it was hiring Bruce, because when they hired Bruce, Mike Shanahan was the ultimate boss and had final say on Roster and everything else.

The bigger mistake was when Dan fired Shanahan because he wanted to empower Griffin, he then elevated Bruce to President of Football Operations and gave him ultimate authority over everything, including hiring nepo-baby moron Jay Gruden, and then everything else that took place after it.

I put 2010-2013 mostly on Shanahan's room bill, for better or worse. Mike's title was "VP of Football and Head Coach" and Bruce's was "VP of Football and General Manager" and Mike had final roster say. Then in 2014 Bruce became President.

I'd also argue adding a third, which came WAY earlier: when Dan forced the signing of Jeff George when they already had Brad Johnson playing at a pro bowl level, but he didn't like the way Johnson played, he liked the big arm of George. I put that signing actually as worse than the Albert Haynesworth signing because it was a clear indication Dan would undo good things for no good reason.

Did the Shanahan's have final roster say? Didn't Kyle say they were forced to trade for McNabb by Snyder or am I misremembering?

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Did the Shanahan's have final roster say? Didn't Kyle say they were forced to trade for McNabb by Snyder or am I misremembering?

Mike had final say. He said so in his interview. HOWEVER, final say didn't mean Dan couldn't make a decision. And Dan made that decision, told Bruce, and then forced Mike.

McNabb was all Dan. And Mike probably didn't want to pull the "you can't do that, it's in my contract, so do it and I quit and you still owe me my entire contract" card literally before the first game was played. In hindsight, maybe he should have, but the guy he wanted as the veteran stop gap also sucked, I can't remember who. But it was some journeyman dude, maybe Delhomme from Carolina, or that guy from St. Louis maybe? I don't remember. But McNabb was a Dan call 100%, not Bruce.