2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

There's an active (thus far effective) media campaign to promote Forbes. All the tweets and articles aren't happenstance.

I'm happy the kid has found greener pastures and better coaching, and hope his continued development & performance stay on an upward trajectory. He was put in a position to fail here.
 
I have seen some posts around here than Quan was good last year and took a step back this year. He had a 59.2 PFF grade with a 43.0 PFF grade. Not that PFF is the be all end all but that is not good play. The guy has to win a job in camp next year and is a cut candidate.
 
There's an active (thus far effective) media campaign to promote Forbes. All the tweets and articles aren't happenstance.

I'm happy the kid has found greener pastures and better coaching, and hope his continued development & performance stay on an upward trajectory. He was put in a position to fail here.
I personally have wished the kid nothing but the best. Whether Coaching, Size, or both he was not good here. However, the nastiness toward the kid on social media for no other reason than he was poor in his position was really sickening.

Kid never complained. Never pouted. Never lashed out on SM that I can recall. There were no reports of any work ethic issues - yet people went after him hard. A bit harder than I can remember than any rookie/2nd year guy that only had play on the field issues. It was bizarre. I don't know if it was misplaced anger at RR or what. It left me scratching my head.
 
Yeah, AngryChuckT it wasn't his fault when he was drafted or how he was (mis)used by the regime that drafted him or underestimated by the one that shipped him out. He was completely professional while here.
 
Yeah, AngryChuckT it wasn't his fault when he was drafted or how he was (mis)used by the regime that drafted him or underestimated by the one that shipped him out. He was completely professional while here.
And that's why I will always root for him. He's one of the best young men that I've seen from afar. All the stories about him and everything he says. I even remember when everyone was celebrating during the hail Mary, he picked up a couple of dejected Bears players and consoled them
 
Yeah I never really got the vitriol towards Forbes here and our other fan sites. Really perplexing.
 
If you're wondering why Forbes is so much better suddenly, I have also heard that this guy has something to do with it:

This relates, I think perhaps, to how you pick your coordinators. Good coaches know how to pick good coordinators, it's one of the biggest jobs for a HC.
 
Forbes was over-drafted regardless, and obviously especially being taken over Gonzalez who most of us wanted at the time. It was bad process and bad results, live in that moment.

But that initial damage was done by Rivera regardless, we were stuck with the Forbes pick. Mis-evaluating Forbes AGAIN once our current coaches got their hands on him is an entirely different, avoidable crime. And it just made our roster even worse than it already was, tossing a seemingly salvageable player.

Not something that can happen if we want to be good. Self-scouting is where it all begins.
Did we misevaluate or is he just in a better defense for his skill set; or, more so, is he surrounded by better talent? Would you trade him for Trey Amos? Mike Sanristil? Even with Sanristil's awful year, I wouldn't. No one in their right might though Forbes was going to be anything here. And, let's be honest, he's been terrible until the last few weeks, where he suddenly turned a corner. Is that happening here? Definitely not under Whitt. The hand-wringing by a lot of the fan base--and several media members, like Poor-Man's-Jason-Reid Mike Jones, over Forbes is a lot of hindsight GMing. It's mildly frustrating to see him succeed, but it's also fueled by recency bias and a small sample size, in a season where everything that could have gone wrong has, and then some.

I also point to Bryce Huff--given $34m guaranteed by the Eagles. He was jettisoned after one year under Vic Fangio--who is an outstanding coach. He's now killing it on the 9ers. What happened there?
 
He very much did when Brown abused him like a rented donkey.
Ok, I grant you that. I forgot about that incident. However, Brown has a tendency to bring out the worst in any CB by abusing them physically and mentally.

Other than that incident point me to something or a pattern of something where he deserved the level of abuse heaped upon him from the keyboard warriors? It was ridiculous. I hope he continues to ball out and irritates every Redskins fan that took it too far when he was here.
 
Ok, I grant you that. I forgot about that incident. However, Brown has a tendency to bring out the worst in any CB by abusing them physically and mentally.

Other than that incident point me to something or a pattern of something where he deserved the level of abuse heaped upon him from the keyboard warriors? It was ridiculous. I hope he continues to ball out and irritates every Redskins fan that took it too far when he was here.
Who haven't these keyboard warriors lambasted unfairly? Seems like Quinn is getting a lot of it, Peters too, from the Agenda Boys and Twitter Engagement Farmers (who, in my humble opinion, have surpassed TikTok Dancing Douchebags as the most annoying people on the planet). Maybe because I try to ignore a lot of those types, I just didn't pay much attention to the vitriol.

It wasn't Forbes fault he was over-drafted into an awful situation--you're absolutely right there.
 
Who haven't these keyboard warriors lambasted unfairly? Seems like Quinn is getting a lot of it, Peters too, from the Agenda Boys and Twitter Engagement Farmers (who, in my humble opinion, have surpassed TikTok Dancing Douchebags as the most annoying people on the planet). Maybe because I try to ignore a lot of those types, I just didn't pay much attention to the vitriol.

It wasn't Forbes fault he was over-drafted into an awful situation--you're absolutely right there.
I don't disagree others get it to. I don't know if I lurk in more slimy corners of SM, but at the time it really struck me that the kid got it the worst I had seen in recent memory. Just vile stuff in no way commensurate with a young kid still learning the NFL whose issues were only on the field performance.
 
I don't disagree others get it to. I don't know if I lurk in more slimy corners of SM, but at the time it really struck me that the kid got it the worst I had seen in recent memory. Just vile stuff in no way commensurate with a young kid still learning the NFL whose issues were only on the field performance.
Conerly is getting now, even though he has really improved over the year. They're just attention seeking children.
 
Look, Adam Peters and Dan Quinn are not on the hot seat at the moment with a 3-9 team because Emmanuel Forbes is no longer here.

Almost all of the Rivera picks were busts and at some point a new regime goes with its own players.

I see the Trey Amos pick as a real value pick in Round 2 and once healthy I think will show in 2026 that he is a definite keeper.

The trouble in my mind was the panic move for Lattimore and giving up a lot of draft capital for a player that had been injured over the previous 2-3 years in New Orleans and was approaching 30.

For a team building off 4-13 I thought we should be keeping picks and acquiring YOUNGER players as free agents and trades.

And if we were going to trade for a player it was going to have to be a MUST have position like left tackle to protect Daniels' blindside So, I am not going to go back now and criticize Peters for a deal I thought was needed at the time.
 
edit: duplicate post!
 
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Did we misevaluate or is he just in a better defense for his skill set; or, more so, is he surrounded by better talent? Would you trade him for Trey Amos? Mike Sanristil? Even with Sanristil's awful year, I wouldn't. No one in their right might though Forbes was going to be anything here. And, let's be honest, he's been terrible until the last few weeks, where he suddenly turned a corner. Is that happening here? Definitely not under Whitt. The hand-wringing by a lot of the fan base--and several media members, like Poor-Man's-Jason-Reid Mike Jones, over Forbes is a lot of hindsight GMing. It's mildly frustrating to see him succeed, but it's also fueled by recency bias and a small sample size, in a season where everything that could have gone wrong has, and then some.

I also point to Bryce Huff--given $34m guaranteed by the Eagles. He was jettisoned after one year under Vic Fangio--who is an outstanding coach. He's now killing it on the 9ers. What happened there?

You’re kind of missing my point. Almost no one in our fanbase wanted Forbes to begin with, and then he sucked under Rivera. Then he sucked under Quinn/Whitt. Nobody disputes that he was a poor fit here and is in a much better position to slowly develop into a serviceable player with the Rams.

But for this regime, Forbes should have been seen as “found money”. The Rams identified how to use him more efficiently and have a starter on their hands. One they have to hide a bit, sure, but he’s clearly playing with confidence and growing into his skillset. Why couldn’t that have been our new regime? My whole point is that it’s a failure of self-evaluation from our coaches, especially Whitt obviously. If they’d correctly identified his strengths and weaknesses and how to accentuate the former and scheme more around the latter the way that the Rams are operating, we could have salvaged a usable player that we sorely needed. If we’d added more talent to this defense in the last two years, with better coaching and evaluation, we’d be one overly-pedigreed CB stronger on our defense.

Obviously Forbes never would’ve become what he’s growing into now on this defense surrounded by this talent coached by these coaches. That’s my entire problem with the whole situation. How am I supposed to trust any of their evaluations from the last two years now? Of current under-performing players being utilized poorly and of incoming college prospects? Who else are we wasting, mis-evaluating, or using incorrectly—stealing the confidence and swagger that got them drafted or signed in the first place?

It adds a very uncomfortable undertone to evaluating this whole regime, to see another franchise successfully salvage a player we had every incentive to fix.

I’m being a little dramatic for effect obviously, but it’s beyond simply “frustrating” to me. It’s concerning. We’re still learning about this regime and a lot rides on these guys getting things like this correct. It’s a data point, and not a good one. I’m still collecting data points, nobody (except Whitt) needs to be put to the stake for this. But it’s a negative data point and it goes on their ledger. And it’s concerning. Over a larger sample size, I want to be the franchise that fixes players by correctly identifying their strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want to be the franchise that has its players fixed somewhere else. The sample size is still pretty small, like you said the Eagles have this happen too. But it’s a miss that I’m counting.
 
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You’re kind of missing my point. Almost no one in our fanbase wanted Forbes to begin with, and then he sucked under Rivera. Then he sucked under Quinn/Whitt. Nobody disputes that he was a poor fit here and is in a much better position to slowly develop into a serviceable player with the Rams.

But for this regime, Forbes should have been seen as “found money”. The Rams identified how to use him more efficiently and have a starter on their hands. One they have to hide a bit, sure, but he’s clearly playing with confidence and growing into his skillset. Why couldn’t that have been our new regime? My whole point is that it’s a failure of self-evaluation from our coaches, especially Whitt obviously. If they’d correctly identified his strengths and weaknesses and how to accentuate the former and scheme more around the latter the way that the Rams are operating, we could have salvaged a usable player that we sorely needed. If we’d added more talent to this defense in the last two years, with better coaching and evaluation, we’d be one overly-pedigreed CB stronger on our defense.

Obviously Forbes never would’ve become what he’s growing into now on this defense surrounded by this talent coached by these coaches. That’s my entire problem with the whole situation. How am I supposed to trust any of their evaluations from the last two years now? Of current under-performing players being utilized poorly and of incoming college prospects? Who else are we wasting, mis-evaluating, or using incorrectly—stealing the confidence and swagger that got them drafted or signed in the first place?

It adds a very uncomfortable undertone to evaluating this whole regime, to see another franchise successfully salvage a player we had every incentive to fix.

I’m being a little dramatic for effect obviously, but it’s beyond simply “frustrating” to me. It’s concerning. We’re still learning about this regime and a lot rides on these guys getting things like this correct. It’s a data point, and not a good one. I’m still collecting data points, nobody (except Whitt) needs to be put to the stake for this. But it’s a negative data point and it goes on their ledger. And it’s concerning. Over a larger sample size, I want to be the franchise that fixes players by correctly identifying their strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want to be the franchise that has its players fixed somewhere else. The sample size is still pretty small, like you said the Eagles have this happen too. But it’s a miss that I’m counting.

Although I don't think he should be penciled in as a starter for next year given how he has played the last two seasons, I really would not be surprised if Quan became a plus starter with his next team. Also, Mikey will go find a new team to play for in 2028. He'll get to be an outside zone corner for them and will become a good starter.
 
You’re kind of missing my point.
Let me begin by saying my annoyance at the Forbes worship wasn't just you, my friend. More of a general example of the over-the-top praise he's getting. I'll use the Mitch Tinsley example too--people on Twitter are losing their minds because he caught a touchdown pass. He has 5 freaking receptions on the year! It also took the Rams a year to finally make him serviceable, and we'll see if it continues--flash-in-the-pans happen all the time. I'm not losing any sleep over Forbes, Curl, or BSJ. We can certainly disagree there.

But to your other point--you're right about the larger issue being what has Whitt done to our defense, specifically Sanristil. He looked so good at the end of last year--and then completely fell apart. Our secondary went the opposite direction as our DLine--Kinlaw came in and has been an anchor in run defense. I think our run-d was pretty solid when Armstrong and Wise were healthy, as was our pass-rush. I want to say we correctly identified Kinlaw's ability and made the right choice there, DA too, last year. Our secondary was utter garbage until Quinn took over. I think it was Bullock who identified how coverages were better disguised and called under Quinn. Blitzes were more creative too. So, that tells me Whitt's inability to call games as well as game plan creative pressures is imminently fixable--but one game does not a trend make. More information is needed.

Finally, I wholly agree about being the team that fixes players--i.e., Baun in Philly. We have done that on offense, more or less with OZ last year. I still think Deebo was a steal costing only a 5th rounder, but became the defacto #1 with all the injuries, which he isn't. I think nailing the DC selection is critical--probably as critical a the draft and FA.
 

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