2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yeah, I’m not buying the ‘huge disappointment’ label. There has not been many (or any) splash plays that pop to mind but I also don’t know what role he is playing.

Take it for what it's worth, but Whitt and Quinn always bring him up as playing well, generally unprompted. And I believe Mark Bullock who does film study has said he's done well.

I haven't heard Logan on him.

skinsinparadise, what does PFF say about our friend Kinlaw? (Okay, I swear this is the last time I point out how stunned Conn must be every time I ask for PFF data. The joke’s officially expired. But for nostalgia’s sake—can someone swing by @conn’s place with a defibrillator?)

 

[skinsinparadise]

Take it for what it's worth, but Whitt and Quinn always bring him up as playing well, generally unprompted. And I believe Mark Bullock who does film study has said he's done well.

I haven't heard Logan on him.

skinsinparadise, what does PFF say about our friend Kinlaw? (Okay, I swear this is the last time I point out how stunned Conn must be every time I ask for PFF data. The joke’s officially expired. But for nostalgia’s sake—can someone swing by @conn’s place with a defibrillator?)

61.1 -- decent score but nothing great. They like Payne much more.

PFF is running at odds with Steve Suter who is doing Sheehan's game film reviews. Suter thinks Kinlaw has been excellent but Payne has a lazy motor and takes a lot of plays off.

The irony of that point about Payne, is that's exactly how some PFF guys would defend the mediocre grades they'd give Payne over the years -- they'd say he makes some great plays but otherwise he disappears for good chunks of the games and they can't just ignore that. The PFF take on Payne over the years mirrors Suter's take this year. But this year PFF is giving Payne a high 70s score -- so that's very good albiet not great -- so they think apparently he doesn't take off as many plays as he has in prior seasons.

 

[Chris]

Take it for what it's worth, but Whitt and Quinn always bring him up as playing well, generally unprompted. And I believe Mark Bullock who does film study has said he's done well.

Yeah, I have heard the same from them repeatedly.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Sticking to the PFF theme. They seem to think judging by their scores, Reaves is emerging as a safety after a slow start. that actually mirrors a point from Voice_of_Reason 's guy, Jay Gruden. And they also think McCaffrey is emerging.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Sticking to the PFF theme. They seem to think judging by their scores, Reaves is emerging as a safety after a slow start. that actually mirrors a point from Voice_of_Reason 's guy, Jay Gruden. And they also think McCaffrey is emerging.

You keep tempting me to comment on dumbass. And I keep falling for it. I guess that makes me the dumbass...

 

[skinsinparadise]

You keep tempting me to comment on dumbass. And I keep falling for it. I guess that makes me the dumbass...

Actually sticking to the Gruden theme. He's been one of Terry's staunchest defenders over the years including this one. Of course he drafted him, so he's biased. Look i loved Terry too, I touted him pre-that draft and defended the pick -- but he's never going to be the same with me after this summers holdout.

But anyway I was shocked that Gruden, big Terry defender, on Sheehan's podcast did think that Terry missing camp likely is a factor with his soft tissue injury.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Actually sticking to the Gruden theme. He's been one of Terry's staunchest defenders over the years including this one. Of course he drafted him, so he's biased. Look i loved Terry too, I touted him pre-that draft and defended the pick -- but he's never going to be the same with me after this summers holdout.

But anyway I was shocked that Gruden, big Terry defender, on Sheehan's podcast did think that Terry missing camp likely is a factor with his soft tissue injury.

It has to be some type of a factor. How much? Who's to say.

Gruden is a self aggrandizing know-nothing nepo-baby douchebag. Of course he would staunchly defend the indefensible. It's one of the reasons he is a born loser.

It took a post to actually take the bate, but I got there in the end.

 

[skinsinparadise]

It has to be some type of a factor. How much? Who's to say.

Gruden is a self aggrandizing know-nothing nepo-baby douchebag. Of course he would staunchly defend the indefensible. It's one of the reasons he is a born loser.

It took a post to actually take the bate, but I got there in the end.

 

[Die Hard]

Interesting take. The coaches and film study guys have basically said he has been having a standout season all year.

I'm not sure what the PFF grades say, but my thought was he was doing really well, and was definitely an off-season hit.

I think the bigger problem is since there isn't a DE on the roster, teams are able to just run outside and ignore the middle, which means the DTs are just marginalized as a group. Especially with run defense. Teams just run elsewhere.

Without looking at PFF (which admittedly I don’t use, understand well, or put mucy credence in), in 8 games, Kinlaw has 17 tackles (9 solo, 8 assisted). No sacks. I don’t know about pressures. That was our big D FA signing… getting blocked by 1 lineman consistently.

I’m not sure how any one can say any different - that he hasnt been a disappointment.

Dietrich Wise was a difference maker until he got hurt… in fact that’s actually how he got hurt breaking through the line and the offensive lineman fell back on his lower legs.

Payne has actually had a decent year… constantly applying pressure and bottling up a lot.

But for 2 big bodies… they both still give up way too much on onside running plays most games.

This defense is getting gashed every which way. There’s no real strength/identity to it.

 

[Chris]

Are you certain that Kinlaw has been getting blocked by one lineman consistently Die Hard and not facing a lot of double teams? If so it would make a difference.

Seems to me that most of the gashing in the opponents run games has been mostly to the outside, especially since Wise went down. The edge setting has been more of a problem (to me) than through the middle.

 

[Die Hard]

Are you certain that Kinlaw has been getting blocked by one lineman consistently Die Hard and not facing a lot of double teams? If so it would make a difference.

Seems to me that most of the gashing in the opponents run games has been mostly to the outside, especially since Wise went down. The edge setting has been more of a problem (to me) than through the middle.

Do yourself a favor and watch big ole 95 for every defensive down for a couple of defensive drives. 😃 Obviously I’m not hyper-focusing on him for 100% of defensive snaps… because that’d be the most boring 3.5 hours of sport ever. But check his matchups… he has no impact except 1-2 run stuffs for losses where he finally wins/dominates his matchup. He’s not taking on double teams… that’s absurd.

And Luvu is still blitzing from the edge a few times… and he’s also get getting stonewalled on his rushes… whereas last year he was shooting gaps.

 

[Chris 44]

Watching Detroit tight end tearing up Minnesota on first drive. One, glad we arnt the only ones that allows tight ends to go off and 2.....we need a game breaker at TE next year.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Watching Detroit tight end tearing up Minnesota on first drive. One, glad we arnt the only ones that allows tight ends to go off and 2.....we need a game breaker at TE next year.

3. God help us next week.

We definitely need a better pass-catching TE with speed to stretch the middle of the field. Do you think Gronk would come out of retirement? I'd bet he's still as fast as Zach Ertz. (First part of that was a joke, the second part with him still being as fast as Ertz, not so much a joke.)

 

[Chris]

Do yourself a favor and watch big ole 95 for every defensive down for a couple of defensive drives. 😃 Obviously I’m not hyper-focusing on him for 100% of defensive snaps… because that’d be the most boring 3.5 hours of sport ever. But check his matchups… he has no impact except 1-2 run stuffs for losses where he finally wins/dominates his matchup. He’s not taking on double teams… that’s absurd.

And Luvu is still blitzing from the edge a few times… and he’s also get getting stonewalled on his rushes… whereas last year he was shooting gaps.

I will watch Kinlaw (99) tonight and see if that is absurd or not. It might be, but I’m not willing to make a declarative statement either way…yet. I do know that Allen was often taking on double teams and that is the position he is occupying.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Do yourself a favor and watch big ole 95 for every defensive down for a couple of defensive drives. 😃 Obviously I’m not hyper-focusing on him for 100% of defensive snaps… because that’d be the most boring 3.5 hours of sport ever. But check his matchups… he has no impact except 1-2 run stuffs for losses where he finally wins/dominates his matchup. He’s not taking on double teams… that’s absurd.

And Luvu is still blitzing from the edge a few times… and he’s also get getting stonewalled on his rushes… whereas last year he was shooting gaps.

Luvu is playing out of position at the moment. Hes being asked to be a DE and is often picked up 1:1 by a tackle and getting rag dolled.

This is because we have no DEs on the roster.

His role has changed because of injury to others and it’s not helping him.

 

[SkinsInSATX]

Luvu is playing out of position at the moment. Hes being asked to be a DE and is often picked up 1:1 by a tackle and getting rag dolled.

This is because we have no DEs on the roster.

His role has changed because of injury to others and it’s not helping him.

Yeah, I've often wondered the same about Luvu this year. He just didn't forget how to play football from one year to the next... I have to believe it's the scheme, or as you mentioned, out of position due to injury.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yeah, I've often wondered the same about Luvu this year. He just didn't forget how to play football from one year to the next... I have to believe it's the scheme, or as you mentioned, out of position due to injury.

It’s been brought up by a number of film study guys.

 

[Chris]

I’m bored so I spent a little time watching the defense on the condensed version of the Dallas & KC games on YT at .75 speed.

Kinlaw was frequently (and by that I mean 50% or more) double-teamed. On 2 plays KC triple-teamed him. That said, he is what I would call a ‘lumbering’ presence with little to no fast twitch, but he does hold ground.

 

[skinsinparadise]

the film review guys that I follow, Paulsen, Bullock, Suter have been really high on Kinlaw with different variations of him being disruptive with a nonstop motor.

 

[Die Hard]

the film review guys that I follow, Paulsen, Bullock, Suter have been really high on Kinlaw with different variations of him being disruptive with a nonstop motor.

Everyone one of those clips he was never double-teamed. Let’s stop the narrative about double-teams.

9 solo tackles in 8 games. That’s our premier defensive FA signing. Considering his contract versus his impact… and you’re not disappointed in output… your expectations are too low.

And I can assure you that I could find the same number of highlight plays of every single member of our defense. Including Lattimore or Quan Martin.

It doesn’t mean they’re playing well overall.