2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

[Conn]

This won’t change until he gets hurt, unfortunately. Quinn & Co. choosing the “head in sand” approach when we can all see every snap he’s getting exposed. Big guys posterize him, fast guys blow past him, quick guys juke him out of his shoes and run free. He’s clearly a focus of every offensive gameplan. This is extremely disappointing self-scouting unless they’re just saying the polite thing while benching him…which we would’ve heard about already, likely.

Of course now that Saintistil is hurting we might not have a choice in the short term.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Teams have been targeting Lattimore ever since he suited up for the first time here. He was a basket case mentally over that as well.

My only hope was that with some added health and recovery, familiarity with the scheme and teammates, etc. that he could come back this year and be serviceable.

But again, he’s been picked on over and over again, in different ways. I know a coach can’t bury a guy at the podium and Darrell Green isn’t coming out of that locker room anytime soon, but they have to figure something out.

 

[Chris]

Marshon was damaged goods (and hadn’t been near the player he was for some time) before the trade. None of this is in anyway even a mild surprise to me.

 

[method man]

This won’t change until he gets hurt, unfortunately. Quinn & Co. choosing the “head in sand” approach when we can all see every snap he’s getting exposed. Big guys posterize him, fast guys blow past him, quick guys juke him out of his shoes and run free. He’s clearly a focus of every offensive gameplan. This is extremely disappointing self-scouting unless they’re just saying the polite thing while benching him…which we would’ve heard about already, likely.

Of course now that Saintistil is hurting we might not have a choice in the short term.

Meh he’s going to fib to the media about him. My guess is the leash is short and, if we lose the next two games and he is bad, he is going to the bench.

The RR staff gave William Jackson until early Oct to get his shit together in 22 before getting rid of him.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I don't know guys, I may have a different take on some of it. I mean, some of it could be differences in perception. If we are judging Lattimore from the perspective of a shutdown corner, he has been really bad. If we are judging him as an above average corner, then how is he? How about the price paid, how steep was it really? It wasn't a shutdown cost, I think we would all agree?

So what is the viewpoint here? I would say the cost was above the "above average" cost but not at the "great" level. Sometimes I think they don't look at it like, in order for him to be "good enough" they need him to be "shutdown" - from that lens, maybe DQ isn't as unhappy as we may be.

Now all that devil's advocate stuff aside (and tilting my head to see different perspectives), DQ isn't about to just tell everything he's thinking to the media. I definitely believe that. However, I am not convinced they look at it like they need him to be a shutdown, as much as they hyped it that way at the beginning (perhaps they had high hopes that have since been readjusted; I would suggest that occurred in Tampa in the playoffs, when they pulled him off Evans by force).

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Galdi played a clip of somebody on today which said he didn’t know you keep playing Lattimore because he’s totally lost out there.

That’s a little eek

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I don't know guys, I may have a different take on some of it. I mean, some of it could be differences in perception. If we are judging Lattimore from the perspective of a shutdown corner, he has been really bad. If we are judging him as an above average corner, then how is he? How about the price paid, how steep was it really? It wasn't a shutdown cost, I think we would all agree?

So what is the viewpoint here? I would say the cost was above the "above average" cost but not at the "great" level. Sometimes I think they don't look at it like, in order for him to be "good enough" they need him to be "shutdown" - from that lens, maybe DQ isn't as unhappy as we may be.

Now all that devil's advocate stuff aside (and tilting my head to see different perspectives), DQ isn't about to just tell everything he's thinking to the media. I definitely believe that. However, I am not convinced they look at it like they need him to be a shutdown, as much as they hyped it that way at the beginning (perhaps they had high hopes that have since been readjusted; I would suggest that occurred in Tampa in the playoffs, when they pulled him off Evans by force).

I’m not sure shutdown was ever a part of the equation. Shutdown corners aren’t avail for a 3rd and whatever we traded for him. If he was simply good but not great, we could live with that.

The problem is that he’s been an abysmal net negative, this year and last. He’s getting burnt any way you can burn a corner. Costly penalties. Loses composure. Like a guy that’s realized whatever he had, he no longer has it.

And we are the ones stuck with it.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

This won’t change until he gets hurt, unfortunately. Quinn & Co. choosing the “head in sand” approach when we can all see every snap he’s getting exposed. Big guys posterize him, fast guys blow past him, quick guys juke him out of his shoes and run free. He’s clearly a focus of every offensive gameplan. This is extremely disappointing self-scouting unless they’re just saying the polite thing while benching him…which we would’ve heard about already, likely.

Of course now that Saintistil is hurting we might not have a choice in the short term.

I actually don't think Quinn is putting his head in the sand. I think he knows exactly what's happening. I also don't know that there is anything he can do about it. And he's certainly not going to confirm Lattimore is struggling, because that serves no purpose.

The one player who could have replaced him who's on the roster, Jonathan Jones, is on IR. That leaves Lattimore, Amos, Mike Sainristil, Antonio Hamilton, Noah Igbinoghene as the only options on the team. Sainristil hasn't had a great start to the season either and is dealing with a knee injury and didn't practice yesterday. Hamilton is a special teams player, and Noah I. is a slot guy. There is literally no other option on the team.

So unless Peters trades for a guy, until Jones comes back, and he has a hamstring injury he suffered in Green Bay, what you see is what you get.

Which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. Peters is definitely regretting this trade. But I don't know that there's anything they can do about it at this point.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I’m not sure shutdown was ever a part of the equation. Shutdown corners aren’t avail for a 3rd and whatever we traded for him. If he was simply good but not great, we could live with that.

The problem is that he’s been an abysmal net negative, this year and last. He’s getting burnt any way you can burn a corner. Costly penalties. Loses composure. Like a guy that’s realized whatever he had, he no longer has it.

And we are the ones stuck with it.

I think at best, they may have thought they were getting a shutdown corner. I mean, it's not hard to see it on a few aspects, including how they have played him. They put him on an absolute island on #1s for some of the games last year. I don't know that they necessarily thought that was the absolute minimum need here, but I think they thought he could get back to that level.

 

[Conn]

I don't know guys, I may have a different take on some of it. I mean, some of it could be differences in perception. If we are judging Lattimore from the perspective of a shutdown corner, he has been really bad. If we are judging him as an above average corner, then how is he? How about the price paid, how steep was it really? It wasn't a shutdown cost, I think we would all agree?

So what is the viewpoint here? I would say the cost was above the "above average" cost but not at the "great" level. Sometimes I think they don't look at it like, in order for him to be "good enough" they need him to be "shutdown" - from that lens, maybe DQ isn't as unhappy as we may be.

Now all that devil's advocate stuff aside (and tilting my head to see different perspectives), DQ isn't about to just tell everything he's thinking to the media. I definitely believe that. However, I am not convinced they look at it like they need him to be a shutdown, as much as they hyped it that way at the beginning (perhaps they had high hopes that have since been readjusted; I would suggest that occurred in Tampa in the playoffs, when they pulled him off Evans by force).

PFF is by no means the definitive take and they have flaws in their grades, but generally if a guy is getting chewed up and spit out by WR’s in coverage, they’re able to note it. I always describe their grades as being “directional”, meaning they need to be used to bias-check your eye test after you already have a preliminary take of your own, and if the grade agrees, you’re probably correct. If the grade disagrees, you dig in further and see if you missed something or they did. But generally, their grades are directionally correct and do a decent job of showing trends once the sample size is big enough.

Lattimore right now grades out on PFF at 103/111 qualifying DB’s. Meaning he’s graded as the 8th worst DB in the entire league. The worst (111/111) is Xavien Howard on the Colts who just literally *retired* from the NFL yesterday, midseason, to save face and avoid getting cut because he was performing so poorly.

Based on how often he’s getting picked on, that feels directionally correct even if it’s overly harsh.

So no, not an average CB at all. Never mind “above average” or “good enough”. He’s extremely bad right now, and it’s in his head and making him play even worse—he knows he’s being picked on and it’s making him overthink and perform even more poorly imo.

 

[Conn]

I actually don't think Quinn is putting his head in the sand. I think he knows exactly what's happening. I also don't know that there is anything he can do about it. And he's certainly not going to confirm Lattimore is struggling, because that serves no purpose.

The one player who could have replaced him who's on the roster, Jonathan Jones, is on IR. That leaves Lattimore, Amos, Mike Sainristil, Antonio Hamilton, Noah Igbinoghene as the only options on the team. Sainristil hasn't had a great start to the season either and is dealing with a knee injury and didn't practice yesterday. Hamilton is a special teams player, and Noah I. is a slot guy. There is literally no other option on the team.

So unless Peters trades for a guy, until Jones comes back, and he has a hamstring injury he suffered in Green Bay, what you see is what you get.

Which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. Peters is definitely regretting this trade. But I don't know that there's anything they can do about it at this point.

Continuing on this PFF tangent (I know you love PFF), let’s say for argument’s sake Lattimore is in fact the 8th worst DB in the entire league. Let’s pretend that’s accurate (it sure feels pretty damn close). How could it get much worse? The bad vibes around him being targeted and being a former star player hot head are even worse for the defense than him getting beat is. How much worse could rookie Car’lin Vigers on the PS even be? 7th worst? 6th worst? At least there’s upside and an unknown factor 😂

Don’t attack PFF in response, I get your issues with them and oftentimes agree, I’m simply saying—arguably if Lattimore is that bad and is getting picked on that badly, how much worse could anyone else actually even be lol. For morale alone it might be good to put him out of his misery and invent an IR excuse until he can peacefully hit FA many months removed from the last time he got burned on national television.

 

[Conn]

I also think there’s a silver lining argument to be made that Adam Peters whiffing this badly on a trade this early on in his tenure could prove to be a good learning experience, since he’s been alone at the wheel for only about 18 months. Tempering any ego when it comes to trading premium picks is a good thing, so a big miss now, if it had to happen (and it’ll happen for every GM) hopefully sets him up for success in the future, with more intensive self-scouting on where his process failed him in this instance.

 

[burgold]

It might be more of a hockey, baseball, or even basketball mentality, but I can't blame Peters for gearing up for a playoff run by making that trade. Forbes & BSJ were awful and something pretty special was brewing last season so taking a veteran swing made a fair amount of sense. It didn't work out, but I don't know that it should be a lesson learned as much as it was a mistake. The mistake not being Lattimore per se, but trading for an injured vet when you were looking for a vet to get you over the top.

In the end, we made it to the Championship game (and put up a much better fight against the Eagles than the Chiefs did) so given how awful Washington football has been since 1991, I am glad that we had that ride. It may have hurt us a little this year and moving forward, but really we'd only be one player different.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

If the secondary is going to be some combination of "bad" and "injured" the only solution is for the front 7 to take over games. Which I'm not sure they are capable of. But I think Whitt is going to have to start taking a lot more risks than he would like to, and we're going to have to live with the results.

Lattimore is struggling, Sainristil is not having a great start to the season and is hurt, Jones is on IR, Butler missed the last game. Will Harris is on IR.

There isn't really a path to the secondary improving significantly.

That means the only way to good defense is to stuff the LOS. If that means bringing a lot of pressure and hoping you don't give up big plays, then that might be what they have to do. We'll give up some big plays for sure, but hopefully we would also make a few stops and big plays.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

[burgold]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

This! This part every week!

Whitt promised agression and that his defense's would arrive violently. So take a chance. Our four man rushes rarely get home and barely ever make a QB uncomfortable. That means that QBs have the time to wait for holes to develop and even great secondaries will eventually break down if protection holds up long enough.

Attack. Arrive violently. We're giving up plenty of big plays by playing soft anyway. Might as well try to dictate a little instead of reacting.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Continuing on this PFF tangent (I know you love PFF), let’s say for argument’s sake Lattimore is in fact the 8th worst DB in the entire league. Let’s pretend that’s accurate (it sure feels pretty damn close). How could it get much worse? The bad vibes around him being targeted and being a former star player hot head are even worse for the defense than him getting beat is. How much worse could rookie Car’lin Vigers on the PS even be? 7th worst? 6th worst? At least there’s upside and an unknown factor 😂

Don’t attack PFF in response, I get your issues with them and oftentimes agree, I’m simply saying—arguably if Lattimore is that bad and is getting picked on that badly, how much worse could anyone else actually even be lol. For morale alone it might be good to put him out of his misery and invent an IR excuse until he can peacefully hit FA many months removed from the last time he got burned on national television.

You must not have been here yet when I turned over a new leaf and said I would not criticize PFF. I embrace them and their Dear Leader fully as experts and hold their opinions as fact! LONG LIVE CHRIS COLLINSWORTH!

Ok, that last bit was maybe an overstatement. But I did make a resolution to stop ragging on PFF, and I have kept to it. And I do find some of their analytics interesting, though I still have some issues with their grading. But I don't attack PFF anymore, and I am willing to engage in a PFF-driven discussion. And you said I could never change. (I made no such resolution about Jay, much to the dismay of many.)

And I will take as fact that Lattimore might be the 8th worst CB in the league. I don't find that hard to believe at all. He's really struggling.

Though, I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're asking. My point is, at the moment, there are REALLY few options with healthy players on the team. Mikey S. did not practice because of a knee, Amos didn't practice last week, Jones is on IR.

The only thing I can think of them doing, and they might do soon, is move Mikey S. outside, Noah I. into the slot and bench Lattimore. That's about the only option because they don't have another healthy CB on the roster.

When Jones comes back, assuming the other 3 CBs are somewhat healthy, they might have more options.

But for now, I get the "how much worse could it get." But in order to change you need somebody to change to, and I don't even know if that exists.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

This! This part every week!

Whitt promised agression and that his defense's would arrive violently. So take a chance. Our four man rushes rarely get home and barely ever make a QB uncomfortable. That means that QBs have the time to wait for holes to develop and even great secondaries will eventually break down if protection holds up long enough.

Attack. Arrive violently. We're giving up plenty of big plays by playing soft anyway. Might as well try to dictate a little instead of reacting.

In general, you would like to have better coverage behind a blitz, because with our DBs, if the blitz doesn't get home, you're throwing against air.

But, you've got to do SOMETHING.

ANYTHING.

 

[skinsinparadise]

A. The trade made sense at the time. Maybe an overpay though if there is a lesson. He outbid other teams including Baltimore. The trade had logic at the time.

B. They had an exit ramp for Lattimore and they didn't take it this off season. That to me is the lesson along with...

C. Will see how stubborn they are as to playing Lattimore if he continues to struggle. If they do and he struggles then...

I think the lesson learned is for Peters to not double down on his mistakes. Don't push it to prove to be right. Put winning first. I think that's part of why Roseman is go good, he will cut his losses.

 

[RedWolf]

Anybody available to help our secondary in 2026 free agency?

 

[Conn]

You must not have been here yet when I turned over a new leaf and said I would not criticize PFF. I embrace them and their Dear Leader fully as experts and hold their opinions as fact! LONG LIVE CHRIS COLLINSWORTH!

Ok, that last bit was maybe an overstatement. But I did make a resolution to stop ragging on PFF, and I have kept to it. And I do find some of their analytics interesting, though I still have some issues with their grading. But I don't attack PFF anymore, and I am willing to engage in a PFF-driven discussion. And you said I could never change. (I made no such resolution about Jay, much to the dismay of many.)

And I will take as fact that Lattimore might be the 8th worst CB in the league. I don't find that hard to believe at all. He's really struggling.

Though, I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're asking. My point is, at the moment, there are REALLY few options with healthy players on the team. Mikey S. did not practice because of a knee, Amos didn't practice last week, Jones is on IR.

The only thing I can think of them doing, and they might do soon, is move Mikey S. outside, Noah I. into the slot and bench Lattimore. That's about the only option because they don't have another healthy CB on the roster.

When Jones comes back, assuming the other 3 CBs are somewhat healthy, they might have more options.

But for now, I get the "how much worse could it get." But in order to change you need somebody to change to, and I don't even know if that exists.

I think we’re pretty much on the same page except I’m willing to get wild and say “if Lattimore is this bad and it’s this embarrassing watching a washed up superstar with a big ego get whipped every week, it literally does not matter who you replace him with—it can only get a little bit worse—and we wouldn’t have to watch the cosmos attempt to humble Lattimore into retirement every single week”. lol

Literally I’d bench him now. IR him if he’s got even an achey back, just to not embarrass him since a cut doesn’t save us any money…but that roster spot is wasted, so get any UDFA level talent who understands a fraction of the defense (we’re having communication issues regardless, fuck it) and has some interesting measurables on the field. My example was Vigers on our own PS, they elevated Hamilton from the PS apparently, but I’d be fine scouring PS’s around the league and street FA for anybody with some athleticism and heart and a little brains. It cannot get much worse than Lattimore right now and his reputation alone is causing ghost penalties because refs expect him to interfere, for good reason. And he’s a hot head who gets penalized for that sometimes, too. He’s a liability beyond his failures in coverage and watching him is painful.