2024 Tight End Room. Zach Ertz, John Bates, Ben Sinnott, Colson Yankoff. 2025?

Solitary Man

The Starter
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
369
Points
98
Zach. I think we sign him. One year deal. He earned it and I believe has another similar year of production in the tank. His leading by example is very valuable and I hope one of the other guys can give him a breather with better play.


John. He keeps on making rosters. We wondered how the new staff would feel about him. His willingness to block seems to exact the same results regardless of who is calling the shots. I can’t bet against him coming back either.

Ben. Is he like having another running back on the roster? Or half te roster spot half rb roster spot? We need to see more. I would be curious to see data on te’s that need several years to develop. Extremely doubtful that he doesn’t make the 2025 roster.

Colson. Special teams strong contributor. A very intriguing athlete. One of the highest nationally rated Quarterbacks. Played a lot of Running Back. I would love to hear that he is impressing everyone in a few months. I am hoping that he is back.


Can we bring all 4 back?
I think we can.
 
We got really lucky with Ertz’s health this year. I want to draft a guy in the Zach mold in the 3rd or 4th who can learn behind him.
 
One of the issues we're gonna have to deal with is we have limited resources to fill a lot of spots. Even if we assume our FA money is unlimited, the talent pool isn't. In the 2025 FA pool who's better than Ertz's 2024 iteration? Honestly I don't think any of them are. Conklin, Juwan, Hooper, and Gesicki got closest but only Gesicki matched in yards, and none had higher than 4 TDs (Ertz 7). And all those guys except Juwan are 30+ except Juwan who is 29.

Then we look to the draft, and there are some interesting options, but can we "afford" to use one of our top 3 picks on a TE? I'm not too concerned about using 79, BUT also if we don't grab someone by 79, we won't have another shot until the 5th and I am going to assume we will not get an upgrade in the 5th or later. Could we afford to pass on a solid edge player at 29 to grab Loveland? Do you go after Fannin or Arroyo in the 2nd and pass on someone like T. Henderson at RB? Do we just sit back and hope one of Fannin or Arroyo make it to 79 and snatch them there if they do?

Like, I do think Loveland would be a major upgrade, but the opportunity cost might move us away from him. Given the depth of the Edge class at the top, it's likely someone will be BPA over Loveland at 29, and given the depth at RB and other positions, I doubt Fannin or Arroyo are BPA at 61.

Will Ertz take a step back due to age? Maybe, but his game seems to be about sort of finding the soft underbelly of a defense about 6-8 yards from LoS. That limits his upside but, as his TD numbers suggested, made him a major red zone threat. And that playstyle is somewhat sustainable, it doesn't demand he win footraces, it just requires him to be really savvy and on the same wavelength as the QB, and clearly they are.

So I'm unsure any of the FA guys are upgrades, and I'm unsure an upgrade in the draft will be BPA when we pick.

We may have to just run it back, and hope Sinnott takes a nice big step while Ertz still has some gas left in the tank. And honestly, that's probably fine. Ertz was a top 10 TE last year, and while he's limited between the 20's, he's deadly inside the 10 and on "& short" downs. There are probably better places to put our limited resources this year.



NOW, lastly, one guy I might be interested in is Tommy Tremble. Yes, he's struggled and never taken that next step, BUT he's 25 and the Panthers have not exactly not been a dumpster fire for his tenure there. He does have injury issues, but I do wonder where his ceiling is if he got into a better situation. He's someone I would strongly consider kicking the tires on and maybe throwing a reasonable 2 year deal to, to see if he can be a part of the post-Ertz crew. I suspect the staff doesn't envision Sinnott as a major F-type TE in the long term and more like a Swiss army knife Y-type, so there is an opening for a move TE.
 
Don’t forget that Cole Turner is still hanging around the edges of the roster, too.
 
I was listening to Logan Paulson break down the season and when he got to tight ends he raved about Yankoff. Said the guy was a maniac on special teams and the kind of player who might never get regular team offensive snaps, but might play for ten years because he was such a good Teams player.
 
I'm still curious what happened with Sinnott. I know TEs can take a little longer to develop sometimes, but he had so little production this year that it's quite disappointing, especially considering how high AP seemed to be on him. Was he just that overshadowed by Ertz? Possibly, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find more ways to use him if he was playing up to scratch.
 
mistertim said:
I'm still curious what happened with Sinnott. I know TEs can take a little longer to develop sometimes, but he had so little production this year that it's quite disappointing, especially considering how high AP seemed to be on him. Was he just that overshadowed by Ertz? Possibly, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find more ways to use him if he was playing up to scratch.
Click to expand...
Been discussing this on Bluesky. I think the primary thing that happened to Sinnott is that he was a victim of success.

We were winning. That means less opportunity to put players on the field for development so Ben saw less field time as the year progressed. You don't want to give a rookie a trial by fire season if you are in a serious playoff race. Combo that with the fact that Ertz just became so important to the offense and maintained great health and Sinnott just never got priority snaps.

This was the opposite situation of Sainristil and Coleman. Mike came in and the players ahead of him failed miserably so he got a chance and was elevated to starting corner from slot. The more he proved himself, the more he cemented his position. Coleman missed the offseason due to injury and was super raw so he started out split timing until both injury and his play proved he was the best one to play.

Sinnott had to beat out a borderline HOFer to get snaps. Then, he had to beat out a borderline HOFer who became his rookie QBs security blanket. In other words, I think Sinnott will be just fine. There just wasn't room for him on the field this season.
 
burgold said:
Been discussing this on Bluesky. I think the primary thing that happened to Sinnott is that he was a victim of success.

We were winning. That means less opportunity to put players on the field for development so Ben saw less field time as the year progressed. You don't want to give a rookie a trial by fire season if you are in a serious playoff race. Combo that with the fact that Ertz just became so important to the offense and maintained great health and Sinnott just never got priority snaps.

This was the opposite situation of Sainristil and Coleman. Mike came in and the players ahead of him failed miserably so he got a chance and was elevated to starting corner from slot. The more he proved himself, the more he cemented his position. Coleman missed the offseason due to injury and was super raw so he started out split timing until both injury and his play proved he was the best one to play.

Sinnott had to beat out a borderline HOFer to get snaps. Then, he had to beat out a borderline HOFer who became his rookie QBs security blanket. In other words, I think Sinnott will be just fine. There just wasn't room for him on the field this season.
Click to expand...

I think many fans get this but what was disappointing was that Bates seemed to get more snaps than him this year. I get he is the superior blocker but he also got more targets as a receiver.
 
Yeah. That surprised me too. I think that also was a function of success (and reality). Success in that they didn't want to put players out there just to learn and reality because our o line even though it was doing better than it was supposed to was a liability especially as players started getting dinged up. Also, Bates upped his game. I'm not sure he had a single drop in 2024 whereas before he dropped way too many easy balls. So Bates was the more reliable blocker on a team with a weak o line and he was proving himself reliable as an emergency outlet as a receiver.

Sinnott is a weapon. More of a YAC guy and so found himself without a clear role and not enough opportunities when he got on the field early. Ertz and Bates wound up being more necessary. So, this is where Sinnott gets his chance. During the offseason, he has to become a better blocker. He needs to push so Kingsbury has no choice but to get him on the field. The great thing about being a utility knife is that you can do a lot of things. The tough thing about being a utility knife is that when the handyman is choosing a tool for the job and he has the perfect tool he's not going to use that one instead over the utility knife.
 
DogofWar1 said:
One of the issues we're gonna have to deal with is we have limited resources to fill a lot of spots. Even if we assume our FA money is unlimited, the talent pool isn't. In the 2025 FA pool who's better than Ertz's 2024 iteration? Honestly I don't think any of them are. Conklin, Juwan, Hooper, and Gesicki got closest but only Gesicki matched in yards, and none had higher than 4 TDs (Ertz 7). And all those guys except Juwan are 30+ except Juwan who is 29.

Then we look to the draft, and there are some interesting options, but can we "afford" to use one of our top 3 picks on a TE? I'm not too concerned about using 79, BUT also if we don't grab someone by 79, we won't have another shot until the 5th and I am going to assume we will not get an upgrade in the 5th or later. Could we afford to pass on a solid edge player at 29 to grab Loveland? Do you go after Fannin or Arroyo in the 2nd and pass on someone like T. Henderson at RB? Do we just sit back and hope one of Fannin or Arroyo make it to 79 and snatch them there if they do?

Like, I do think Loveland would be a major upgrade, but the opportunity cost might move us away from him. Given the depth of the Edge class at the top, it's likely someone will be BPA over Loveland at 29, and given the depth at RB and other positions, I doubt Fannin or Arroyo are BPA at 61.

Will Ertz take a step back due to age? Maybe, but his game seems to be about sort of finding the soft underbelly of a defense about 6-8 yards from LoS. That limits his upside but, as his TD numbers suggested, made him a major red zone threat. And that playstyle is somewhat sustainable, it doesn't demand he win footraces, it just requires him to be really savvy and on the same wavelength as the QB, and clearly they are.

So I'm unsure any of the FA guys are upgrades, and I'm unsure an upgrade in the draft will be BPA when we pick.

We may have to just run it back, and hope Sinnott takes a nice big step while Ertz still has some gas left in the tank. And honestly, that's probably fine. Ertz was a top 10 TE last year, and while he's limited between the 20's, he's deadly inside the 10 and on "& short" downs. There are probably better places to put our limited resources this year.



NOW, lastly, one guy I might be interested in is Tommy Tremble. Yes, he's struggled and never taken that next step, BUT he's 25 and the Panthers have not exactly not been a dumpster fire for his tenure there. He does have injury issues, but I do wonder where his ceiling is if he got into a better situation. He's someone I would strongly consider kicking the tires on and maybe throwing a reasonable 2 year deal to, to see if he can be a part of the post-Ertz crew. I suspect the staff doesn't envision Sinnott as a major F-type TE in the long term and more like a Swiss army knife Y-type, so there is an opening for a move TE.
Click to expand...
Great post. The free agent TE list is awful. And we can’t just put it off until the draft, so bringing back Zach for another season is the move. If we are lucky, Sinnott will blossom in year 2, but either way, tight end is a position we probably need to put off until next year. Like you said, the opportunity cost of drafting one in the early rounds is just too much.
 
burgold said:
Been discussing this on Bluesky. I think the primary thing that happened to Sinnott is that he was a victim of success.

We were winning. That means less opportunity to put players on the field for development so Ben saw less field time as the year progressed. You don't want to give a rookie a trial by fire season if you are in a serious playoff race. Combo that with the fact that Ertz just became so important to the offense and maintained great health and Sinnott just never got priority snaps.

This was the opposite situation of Sainristil and Coleman. Mike came in and the players ahead of him failed miserably so he got a chance and was elevated to starting corner from slot. The more he proved himself, the more he cemented his position. Coleman missed the offseason due to injury and was super raw so he started out split timing until both injury and his play proved he was the best one to play.

Sinnott had to beat out a borderline HOFer to get snaps. Then, he had to beat out a borderline HOFer who became his rookie QBs security blanket. In other words, I think Sinnott will be just fine. There just wasn't room for him on the field this season.
Click to expand...

Also while we were winning, we were, in many games, winning by the slimmest of margins (last play of the game how many times in a row)?

In these "game on the line" situations, Sinnott is just not gonna win out over Ertz in the passing game, who also was absolutely superb in the red zone and in finding weak spots for first downs. He's also not gonna win out over Bates when we need an extra blocker.

Only 1 of our final 10 games of the regular season was won (or lost) by more than 1 possession (Titans), so even if Sinnott improved over the season we might not know. He might have been a B to B+ player as a blocker or pass catcher by the end, but if Ertz is playing at an A level as a pass catcher and Bates is playing at an A level as a blocker, he doesn't get in.
 
I don't agree with the 'Ertz just played so great that a very capable Sinnott simply couldn't get on the field' argument.

Ertz did in fact play very well, but he sustained a knee injury mid-season that he played through, I think in part because there really wasn't anyone else at the position for Jayden to depend upon in the passing game.

If Sinnott was an emerging player the team would have run more two tight end sets inline or broken one guy outside to create mismatches during the season.

I think the truth of the matter is that Ertz gets open and catches the ball better than Sinnott and Bates is the better blocker.

So, it was in fact Ben's lack of readiness to contribute at a high level that lead to his limited usage.

If I am Peters I look to add to the TE room, both because if Ertz returns he will be 35 years old and because Bates is not a legit option in the passing game.

And again, I don't see the club counting on a guy they didn't trust to take meaningful snaps in the recently concluded postseason.
 
I get the idea that Ertz was hot and we were on a roll. But I still find it hard to believe that Sinnott wouldn't somehow be involved in the game plan if he was truly playing well and they were high on him. You can do a ton with 2 TE sets and two legit receiving weapons there.
 
I really don't care what a #2 pick does on special teams, not why we drafted him.
 
I am concerned about Sinner but we all know TEs take time. Where i was surprised was when Noah Brown tapped out, I thought that Ben would get a few more snaps to fill the void of a big body WR. Only, his snaps plummeted. We'll hang his hat on that fake punt and rationalize his lack of productivity on Ertz's health and strong year.

IMHO Bates plays a different position. Blocking TEs and Hands TEs are not the same. I don't fault Ben for not beating out Bates at BTE1. Those that are concerned that Bates got more targets, throwing to a BTE is an offenses secret weapon. Aka, The Donny Warren Effect.
 
Tight end is also one of the hardest to transition from between college and NFL. Finding holes in zones, blocking schemes, option routes. All of those take time to devleop. The Sam Laportas and Brock Bowers of the world are the anomoly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top