2014 Coaching Search Rumors

[tshile]

A lower end contract. That is good. Gives him incentive to make a great impact here.

That's a lower end contract for a guy with 0 head coaching experience at the NFL?

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Considering what we gave others - I think so. Either way, it still gives him plenty of incentive.

 

[Elephant]

Well, here are the numbers available on a quick search. At a quick glimpse, looks like Gruden's salary is below average even below the median. Of the 16 coaches who have salaries listed, he has 4 who make less than him and 11 who make more...most are at least 50% greater. That was 50% of the coaches in the NFL. Looking at the names that do not have publicly reported salaries on this site, the 50% of the coaching salaries that are listed probably are a good indicator of the whole.

NFL Head Coach Contracts & Salaries | The Front Office

 

[tshile]

I don't know. Maybe my counting is screwed up, but including this year 10 of the 16 listed have at least one super bowl appearance. Not sure how many of those contracts were given after a super bowl appearance (for example, Carol's obviously wasn't; though he was at least a coach in the NFL before)

Gruden hasn't coached a single game as HC in the NFL

 

[Elephant]

I don't know. Maybe my counting is screwed up, but including this year 10 of the 16 listed have at least one super bowl appearance. Not sure how many of those contracts were given after a super bowl appearance (for example, Carol's obviously wasn't; though he was at least a coach in the NFL before)

Gruden hasn't coached a single game as HC in the NFL

I understand what you're saying. He is getting a contract as 1st time head coach....but he is not getting Super Bowl coach kind of money. He's getting a low end contract according to the numbers in that link. Are you disputing that?

Edit: John Fox got his contract before he was a SB coach and before the turnaround in Denver, so that probably shouldn't be used for the purposes of this discussion.

 

[tshile]

Without knowing all the contract details of all the coaches, including guarantees, what I'm saying is that it seems like he got a pretty high contract all things considered.

What we have to compare him to is a list of current-year cost of contracts for 16 head coaches in the league, 10 of which have super bowl apperances. I'm assuming quite a few of them had appearances before they got their contract, but obviously not all of them (I think both Harboughs and Carol are on their original contract before going to/winning a super bowl.) Assumptions are dangerous, maybe if things were broken down differently the story would be way different, I don't have the time to break down the timelines though.

In addition to that, the other part (and possibly more important part?) is that he got a 5 year guarantee. That seems like a pretty big commitment to a guy that's never been a HC before.

In comparison Mike Shanahan, two time super bowl winning coach that had a pretty good case for HOF status prior to coming here (funny how that works), got a 7mil/year for 5 years guaranteed contract.

The difference is 3 million a year and lack of total control of the organization. The reset of it is similar.

Now. All that said... the value of something is what others are willing to pay for it at any given time. If someone was offering a similar contract, and we wanted him, then that's the cost and it is what it is.

But as a 3rd party, looking at a franchise that is notorious for overpaying for guys to only have them not live up to expectations, looking at the contract concerns me.

It doesn't mean he'll be a bad coach, or that he wont be worth every penny. It's one piece of information we have looking at the hire a week or two in, nothing more nothing less.

It seems like a pretty good contract to me though... it seems like the type of contract a proven head coach would get as opposed to a first time head coach. Based on the list you posted, I'm personally much more interested in the contracts of the guys not listed since they would seem much closer to Gruden in terms of status. Mccoy, Allen, Zimmer, Pagano, Bradley, Threstman, Arians, Smith... what are those guys making? Is it anything close to 4 mil/year for 5 years guaranteed?

 

[Neophyte]

I think that is just the price of hiring a Head Coach in the NFL today, T. Our number will be a little higher than maybe some other clubs because this is Washington DC and it's the Redskins, one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports, not just the NFL. The may also have felt like they had to pay a touch more because of the history here under Snyder.

Bottom line, this is right in line with what I expected Gruden to get to be our Head Coach.

 

[tshile]

I think that is just the price of hiring a Head Coach in the NFL today, T. Our number will be a little higher than maybe some other clubs because this is Washington DC and it's the Redskins, one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports, not just the NFL. The may also have felt like they had to pay a touch more because of the history here under Snyder.

Bottom line, this is right in line with what I expected Gruden to get to be our Head Coach.

Yeah, that's kind of my thought too.

I hate that we're in that position. 5 years is a long time... and when it's guaranteed it makes it hard to get out of it. Look at the rumors around the staff that's stayed being driven by a financial decision because of the cost of getting rid of so many guaranteed contracts so early. It's snyder's money and doesn't apply to the cap, and it could be completely nonsense (snyder could have said 'screw it, fire them all if you must') but it could also be a factor.

Of course, one super bowl victory and it'll have been well worth it... it just falls in line with the narrative of overpaying to bring in over-hyped guys. Hopefully this is a start of a new trend...

 

[Elephant]

This was a quick glimpse into coaching salaries that give a basic insight into the value of his contract compared to other coaches. You're looking for a dissertation...give it a break man.

It is a fair assertion to believe that the 16 salaries presented in the link I posted give a fair understanding of coach's salaries in the the NFL. Based on those numbers, I believe it fair to say he got a lower end contract. The variables you require are not necessary to me to determine that.

You want to delve further? Feel free.

 

[tshile]

I'm simply looking for first time head coach contracts to compare it to. That's all.

 

[Goaldeje]

He might be slightly overpaid, but who cares? Like you said T, it doesn't count against the cap, so it's Danny's money. Let him spend it as he sees fit.

 

[Elephant]

I'm simply looking for first time head coach contracts to compare it to. That's all.

OK...and what BB said, what I am saying and have provided numbers to support that assertion was that he got a lower end contract. First time coach notwithstanding...according to the numbers I provided, it's on the lower end of the scale. I know it's not an exact science. And Neo makes a good point...this is Washington.

As for the 5 year guarantee...I truly believe that is maturity on Snyder's side. It shows a commitment. I think he understands that it will take 5 years for a coach to truly build a consistent winner. At least I hope so.

 

[tshile]

He might be slightly overpaid, but who cares? Like you said T, it doesn't count against the cap, so it's Danny's money. Let him spend it as he sees fit.

I suppose. I think there's a little more in terms of the ramifications of such a deal than it just being Dan's money, but at the same time I'm picking at a nit with no real information (maybe this is right inline with the way new HC contracts are these days)...

 

[Goaldeje]

Yeah, I hear ya. I kind of feel that if Dan has to pay a little more than the Steelers would (for instance), well, he's kind of earned that at this point. I'm not gonna get too wound up about it, unless it is so far out of whack that it looks preposterous. But this strikes me a slight overpayment, MAYBE, and very well could be perfectly in line with what the league is doing.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

He might be slightly overpaid, but who cares? Like you said T, it doesn't count against the cap, so it's Danny's money. Let him spend it as he sees fit.

And if Danny keeps over-spending for mediocre coaches, perhaps he'll go broke faster and have to sell the team. It's a win-win!

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[Boone]

Everyone knows that the way you land the head coaching candidate of your choice is to offer him LESS than what the other teams pursuing him might offer...and tshile just curious, but what other possible ramifications (unless Snyder were paying him some ridiculous salary totally out of the expected range) could there be - i cant think of any negative whatsoever?

 

[Boone]

Yeah, I hear ya. I kind of feel that if Dan has to pay a little more than the Steelers would (for instance)...

It's called damages for future pain and suffering...

 

[tshile]

What got me thinking like this was beat reporters yesterday (when the details were leaked and discussed) were focused on the 5 year guarantee. It's just not done much (according to them, maybe they're wrong) what's done more often is a shorter term with options for a longer term.

For example
Lovie Smith's contract with Buccaneers is for four years, with fifth-year option at over $5 million per year - Bucs Nation

Lovie Smith got a 4 year deal worth 5 million a year with an option for a 5th year. And he's been to a super bowl. Now maybe comparing him to Gruden is unfair in many ways (Tampa market vs Washington Market, Snyder, young up and comer vs vet with a reputation that varies greatly)

Maybe Zimmer will be a much better comparison, though the markets and owners are still much different. HC contracts are not released like player contracts are, so it's hard to really compare anyways.

 

[tshile]

Everyone knows that the way you land the head coaching candidate of your choice is to offer him LESS than what the other teams pursuing him might offer...and tshile just curious, but what other possible ramifications (unless Snyder were paying him some ridiculous salary totally out of the expected range) could there be - i cant think of any negative whatsoever?

Hey now, I addressed exactly what you're saying already

...
Now. All that said... the value of something is what others are willing to pay for it at any given time. If someone was offering a similar contract, and we wanted him, then that's the cost and it is what it is.
...

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult here. I'm just trying to discuss the contract

As for the other ramifications... it costs money to bail on guaranteed contracts early when you determine they're not working out. We went through weeks (months?) of wondering what decisions would be made and whether or not the hefty sum of guaranteed money would factor into the decision and if so by how much... Most of it was based on rumors and just some quick analysis of general cost.

Who knows. Maybe Snyder doesn't give a **** and can toss 4 million (or 7 in the case of Mike Shanahan, plus whatever the rest of them are making) without batting an eye and this is all a bunch of over reaction on my part.

Or maybe it does matter.

I don't know, and as I said earlier the contract doesn't matter if he meets the expectations.

It'll only matter if 2 or 3 years from now we determine he's not a fit, and all the sudden we have to factor in 4 million/year for how many years is left on the contract, plus assistant contracts, plus the contract of a new HC and his staff to start a new regime. Even then maybe Snyder has so much money it still wont matter.

 

[tshile]

It's called damages for future pain and suffering...

Up to and including the complete destruction of a career