• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

It's getting very close to McCoy time.

I'd rather be unhappy seeing us fail with RGIII than unhappy seeing us fail with Cousins or McCoy...
 
I have to ask, SP ... it's been made pretty clear the locker room is not behind Robert ... that the move to Cousins was as much about not losing the locker room as it was the relative skills of the two players ... is that a factor for you when you say that?
 
Om said:
I have to ask, SP ... it's been made pretty clear the locker room is not behind Robert ... that the move to Cousins was as much about not losing the locker room as it was the relative skills of the two players ... is that a factor for you when you say that?
Click to expand...

You mean the locker room that is 6-16 in the last 22 games? 3-8 in games Kirk Cousins has started? We're 3-8 with Kirk Cousins & 3-8 without him. It's pretty clear we're going to be unhappy no matter who the QB is... Give me the guy we invested so much in... the guy who came into the league with the highest ceiling and needed the most development. Let's see if something can't be salvaged from the investment beyond that awesome 2012... That's really all I'm saying.
 
Smoot Point said:
You mean the locker room that is 6-16 in the last 22 games? 3-8 in games Kirk Cousins has started? We're 3-8 with Kirk Cousins & 3-8 without him. It's pretty clear we're going to be unhappy no matter who the QB is... Give me the guy we invested so much in... the guy who came into the league with the highest ceiling and needed the most development. Let's see if something can't be salvaged from the investment beyond that awesome 2012... That's really all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
So that's a no?
 
Since we've proven that ultimately there is no difference between "gaining" or "losing" the locker room... I think it's pretty clear the answer is "no".
 
Where we part ways is I don't think the won-lost record is the only barometer in deciding who starts next week for this team.
 
Winning cures all.

Even locker room rumors.
 
MattyBoh said:
Why not? What has Cousins shown?

At this point, I don't see what Kirk is doing that McCoy or even Griffin couldn't.
Click to expand...

I do NOT think Cousins is the answer, but I know McCoy is not. I would actually not mind seeing RG3 thrown in there for a game or two down the line. I see no point in putting in a very poor man's Brad Johnson to try and win one or 2 more meaningless games in a throwaway season to somehow defer the decision to fire Gruden for another year.
 
Smoot Point said:
You mean the locker room that is 6-16 in the last 22 games? 3-8 in games Kirk Cousins has started? We're 3-8 with Kirk Cousins & 3-8 without him. It's pretty clear we're going to be unhappy no matter who the QB is... Give me the guy we invested so much in... the guy who came into the league with the highest ceiling and needed the most development. Let's see if something can't be salvaged from the investment beyond that awesome 2012... That's really all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
You don't throw good money after bad. Griffin sucks. He made only incremental progress at becoming an NFL QB in 4 years. Yes, he lost a year of learning running the hybrid system Kyle S. cobbled together for him but ultimately he should be much further along in reading defenses, setting protections, pocket presence, etc. than he is. Then there are the things that probably aren't fixable, i.e. being not very well liked because he's something of a putz and more importantly, the potential hit to our FUTURE cap when three snaps into replacing Cousins, he gets hurt again.

We really should have moved or released Griffin after it was apparent in preseason that he wasn't making much progress. If we had, who knows, we might have found a diamond in the rough at QB.
 
Om said:
Where we part ways is I don't think the won-lost record is the only barometer in deciding who starts next week for this team.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's the only barometer either. The player with the best tools, the best upside, who definitely needs the most development should be playing. The player you committed to the 5th year option on should be playing. Everyone who is scared of the 5th year option should probably know by now that we could sign a veteran next year for the same money and they get injured during preseason (like Galette) and we won't see a dime of that money either.

Anyway, my ealrier post wasn't another Cousins vs McCoy vs RGIII post... I simply said: I'd rather be unhappy seeing us fail with RGIII than unhappy seeing us fail with Cousins or McCoy...

Some of what goes into that is seeing the guy we invested so much into... the guy who had taken this team in 2012 to the playoffs and had the greatest rookie QB season ever... the guy who was the face of the franchise sit on the bench while the coach thinks he's going to get better results from other players... The results here are already in. It's a flop no matter who plays. Give me the guy I cheered for in 2012 and let him finish out the season as the QB. The team is miserable anyway... You won't win anything... Cousins will eventually be benched, probably after next week. They'll put McCoy in and he'll be Gruden's next toy, but he'll probably have moments of extremely rare suckage too. Give me RGIII... Let me hear the chants again around the stadium. If this is the last season he wears a Redskins uniform, let it be as starting QB. None of the other guys have earned it more than him.
 
I hear ya, Smoot. Good post.

I'm not there with you, at least not yet. We've got 10 games to go though, so who knows.
 
Yusuf06 said:
You don't throw good money after bad. Griffin sucks. He made only incremental progress at becoming an NFL QB in 4 years. Yes, he lost a year of learning running the hybrid system Kyle S. cobbled together for him but ultimately he should be much further along in reading defenses, setting protections, pocket presence, etc. than he is. Then there are the things that probably aren't fixable, i.e. being not very well liked because he's something of a putz and more importantly, the potential hit to our FUTURE cap when three snaps into replacing Cousins, he gets hurt again.
Click to expand...

Everything negative you said above, Kirk Cousins has demonstrated in these 6 games... I could also add that Kirk Cousins throws picks & can't throw the ball more than 10 yards down field, which also makes it difficult for this team to run the ball. Kirk Cousins has basically reverted to a hybrid of OLD Mark Brunell & Sexy Rexy. Cousins has had the most playing time in this system by far, and he's the only one who has played behind the Bill Callahan coached OL.

One thing that I will agree with you about... If the Redskins were afraid to play Griffin, then they shouldn't have signed him to the 5th year option. That's why I'm thinking it's just Jay Gruden who doesn't want to play him, and it isn't that GMSM and above are afraid of playing him. He's making $8M this year and you have him inactive on Sunday's and running scout team safety. Why would anybody be afraid of paying him $16M next year if he isn't 100% in March? Any player you sign can get injured and cost you money on the cap, including a high priced QB that you bring in. Injuries happen... 25 year olds can also develop...
 
I think the disconnect is that the team (and I don't think it's just Jay Gruden) apparently believes it's Cousins who has the bigger potential upside, not Griffin. All other things being equal, he is going to get the starts until he succeeds or implodes completely in 2015. I agree with those who say it doesn't matter who starts to a certain extent, and I'm also beginning to believe that Cousins can't overcome his shortcomings to become a solid starter. But I believe the Redskins are pretty determined to give him a full season to make that final determination. The big wildcard in all this are the injuries as Om has said several times. I would say the same thing no matter who was under center...tough to run an offense effectively with all of the placeholders we currently have in there. We are down, what, more than half the starting offense? I don't think it's entirely fair to crucify the starting QB in that scenario, no matter who he is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Boone said:
I think the disconnect is that the team (and I don't think it's just Jay Gruden) apparently believes it's Cousins who has the bigger potential upside, not Griffin. All other things being equal, he is going to get the starts until he succeeds or implodes completely in 2015. I agree with those who say it doesn't matter who starts to a certain extent, and I'm also beginning to believe that Cousins can't overcome his shortcomings to become a solid starter. But I believe the Redskins are pretty determined to give him a full season to make that final determination. The big wildcard in all this are the injuries as Om has said several times. I would say the same thing no matter who was under center...tough to run an offense effectively with all of the placeholders we currently have in there. We are down, what, more than half the starting offense? I don't think it's entirely fair to crucify the starting QB in that scenario, no matter who he is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes, the injuries sting and I don't know if another team has been hit as hard as we have, but other teams have had injuries too and keep playing well. The Steelers lost Pouncey before the season, Ben went down week 3, Bell missed the first 2 weeks, Bryant was out the first 4 weeks, their 3rd string QB has seen playing time, they're on their 3rd kicker, they've lost a few OL, Shazier has missed time, yet with all of that, they're 4-2 and a missed fg away from being 5-1. They're 2-1 without Ben.

I knew we would lost the Jets game and the Falcons game with all the injuries we're dealing with. But missing some guys doesn't excuse the poor passes Cousins was making against the Jets or even the week before against the Falcons. He's been inaccurate and throwing behind WRs most of the season. Sure DJax hasn't been out there, but Garcon, Grant, Crowder, Ross and Roberts have been. And Cousins should have a nice rapport with Grant/Crowder from working with them throughout OTAs and TC since he was the backup then. Again, the W-L record doesn't matter to me as much since we're missing some key guys. But missing those key gues doesn't excuse the poor play from Cousins.
 
Boone said:
I don't think it's entirely fair to crucify the starting QB in that scenario, no matter who he is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with that, believe it or not. I would offer though that Cousins propensity to throw the ball over, under and behind receivers (not to mention trying to throw through open defenders) while not under grave distress minimizes who those receivers are.
 
Chris said:
I mostly agree with that, believe it or not. I would offer though that Cousins propensity to throw the ball over, under and behind receivers (not to mention trying to throw through open defenders) while not under grave distress minimizes who those receivers are.
Click to expand...

And I agree with you too. There are lots of things Cousins isn't doing well that h e zero to d with who is on the field too. But the injuries have been devastating to the overall effort to run an effective offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I don't think any of us disagree with what WILL LIKELY happen... Cousins is the starter and likely will be for the entire season. I actually think he SHOULD play well against Tampa Bay. I guess he better... code red & all.
 
tr1 said:
I know this is spilled milk, but why couldn't Gruden have designed an offense around RG's talents the way Seattle and SF did around their qbs?

The answer is that he was going to stick with his offense come hell or high water. And, when forced to play RG3 in the preseason, he left the guy out there to get killed.

He's a petulant turd.
Click to expand...
The primary reason is that Wilson and Kapernick aren't made of glass the way Robert is. He just can't stay healthy as a running QB, even without contact. So, I don't think it had anything to do with Gruden being petulant. Griffin and his father made the decision he was going to transition into a pocket passer so Gruden and Shanny before him didn't have much of a choice because what Robert wants, Robert gets....sez the Danny. He's a very smart guy but it still amazes me to this day that he can't figure out how to slide to protect himself. If he can't figure that out, I don't have much faith he can learn other more complicated stuff.
 
There are excuses to be made... Everyone basically sees the excuses... It's fine to mention them, but those excuses were also there for RGIII & Colt McCoy. Ultimately, a good QB will have to compete and succeed regardless of the odds against them. Hopefully, we find that QB this offseason somewhere.
 
Yusuf06 said:
The primary reason is that Wilson and Kapernick aren't made of glass the way Robert is. He just can't stay healthy as a running QB, even without contact.
Click to expand...

I think you can develop an offense that takes advantage of Robert's skills without putting him in danger. The read-option to some extent protected Robert from big shots, but that doesn't mean you are limited to the read option... Robert's problem with getting injured is also do to the fact he feels he is SuperMan and will throw his body into contact. He is reckless. It's a flaw, for sure. He is built as sturdy as other QBs in the league, but he takes more chances with his body and always has. He did this at Baylor too.

Robert needs an offense that moves him out of the pocket too... He doesn't move well in the pocket, so moving the pocket with play action and sprinkling in read-option really helps. Robert's first year wasn't a "gimmick" offense. A lot of teams run that now...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users
We are all excited to experience the announcement of draft selections IN REAL TIME TOGETHER. If you feel the need to be the first to 'blurt out' the team's picks you are better off staying out of chat and sticking to Twitter. Please refrain from announcing/discussing our picks until the official announcement has been made at the podium. Thanks!

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top