• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

RG may yet suceed, but were the firsts wasted?

I did some research on my own with dislocated ankles...evidently chances are up that he reinjures the same ankle. I was hoping to find an NBA star or NFL Star with a similar injury but can't seem to find any...I'm at the place where I just hope Cousins holds onto the job while Griffin recovers...if he makes his way back into the starting line up I will support it but I don't have blind faith.
 
Elephant said:
I hear ya Om, but I still think you're discounting the entire picture when discussing the value of the trade and it was a clear picture at the time. You have to remember, and by you...I am talking plural, we had just been hit with a tremendous cap restraint that was going to already set us back years. How can you justify digging the hole deeper by spending what you call "fair market value" for "potential". Other teams could afford the cost, after the cap hit...we simply couldn't justify such a risky investment. And you have to realize it was a risk.

I would have less a problem with it if we hadn't just lost likely 5-6 mid-tier role players through the cap hit. That is likely in the neighborhood of 8-10 starters over a 3 year period after the trade that lead us here. A return on investment that I feel will never materialize.

I know this is all conjecture, but when making investments...I don't make risky ones. I am not a day trader. I am more willing to cut bait now and take out lumps with Kirk. You guys obviously aren't.
Click to expand...
We made the trade in March, brother. The cap penalty was imposed the night before the draft.

We both agree it was a risk. Where we disagree is in whether at the time it was one worth taking.
 
Om said:
We made the trade in March, brother. The cap penalty was imposed the night before the draft.

We both agree it was a risk. Where we disagree is in whether at the time it was one worth taking.
Click to expand...

The cap hit was an ambush plain and simple. Snyder and group (pre Shanny) bullied the player marketplace, Shanny and Allen manipulated the 'no cap year' to essentially cleanup the cap mess and top it off with a mammoth trade to acquire a franchise QB had to piss-off the other owners to no end.

The opportunity to trash the Skins was just too hard to resist.

A QB and a cleared up cap was the plan, didn't work..... that was the risk.

eff Mara.
 
Om said:
We made the trade in March, brother. The cap penalty was imposed the night before the draft.

We both agree it was a risk. Where we disagree is in whether at the time it was one worth taking.
Click to expand...

No it wasn't... the penalty was enforced two nights before the start of free agency. The draft was a month later.

March 12, 2012 Redskins penalized for Cap Violations.

Redskins penalized $36M in salary cap space - Washington Times

March 13, 2012 was the beginning of Free Agency and the same date the league was able to finalize the deal with the Rams. The Redskins had the opportunity to back out before the trade was finalized when they found at about the penalties.
 
as much as people want to Monday morning QB this; at the time it was the best move we could have made. The kid brought talent, excitement, and a chance to have a franchise QB at the helm which is something we haven't had in decades.

His presence has changed the locker room, it has brought players that would have never considered signing here to the Skins, and has helped unite a fanbase that for all intents and purposes be fractured and splintered.

People just have20/20 vision after the fact...or are just always negative and want to say "see, I told you so!!" like that is helping anything.
 
McD5 said:
"Until and unless we address the line problems Griffin will be unable to stay healthy...nor will any other QB. It's so depressing as a fan."

CT, what games are you watching? Because they sure aren't Redskins games.

We have one of the top offensive lines in the country this season. Cousins had all day to throw. 0 sacks.

I have no idea why this keeps popping up.

It's not the O-line.
Click to expand...

Yeah I read somewhere today that Cousins has the 2nd least pressure of any QB in the league this year at like 19%. Can't remember who had the best but it was like 15.9% . Cousins ability to make quick decisions and or his quick release has negated some of the pressure on him for sure. With our receivers? He should almost never see pressure. But Robert saw pressure every single drop back unless the D got fooled with playaction or an option play. Hmmmmm :munching_out:
 
Well, I hope you're not referring to me because I have been saying the same thing since before he got here.
 
Absolutely Mike - and people are calling his career over - I think that's incredibly premature.
 
Boone said:
Absolutely Mike - and people are calling his career over - I think that's incredibly premature.
Click to expand...

I know...and I dont think it is anywhere near to being over either.

Brian, I will never call you out specifically but you have been negative on him since before he came. That is absolutely correct. But you were negative about a guy that had never played a single snap in the NFL for us. You were doubting him before he even suited up. I don't understand or maybe don't have the magic vision that you do to judge a guy that has excelled at every level before to suddenly call him a failure before he even steps on the stage. But, that could just be me. I am not going to tell you that your visions or ideas/whatever are wrong. You do you.
 
What I've heard from Brian (and he has been the most consistent poster on Griffin agree with him or not) was that we massively overpaid for Griffin and that the style of offense he plays (and that makes him special) is unsustainable at the NFL level. I think it's too early to say he's correct on that front, but i can understand his position. Brian has also been pretty critical of Griffin's overall tendency to be the constant center of attention, and I can't really beat on him there as I've also not been a fan of some of those tendencies.

I don't think we overpaid for him - we are lucky to have Cousins - but Griffin is the first true franchise quarterback we have had in 20 years and it took what it took to get him. He's already lead us to an NFC East Championship - and if he's able to overcome the injury bug, he may still bring us numerous playoff appearances. I still believe in the guy.
 
I don't understand the negativity towards Griffin. I really don't. 2012 was one of the most fun, joyous, exciting rides of my fandom, in any sport. I'll say this right now: if Griffin doesn't get reinjured against Seattle, we win the SB that year. There wasn't a team in the playoffs we couldn't have beaten. Yeah, he got injured and mismanaged by Shanahan. And all the kid has ever done is work his ass off to make it back and perform at his best. I'm sure what else you could ask of him to this point.

Cousins is a nice player. I think he is a prototypical backup QB, capable of leading a team for a stretch while the starter recovers. But I just don't see him being able to perform like Griff did in 2012. If everyone has decided Griff can't regain that form due to injuries, I understand that perspective. I disagree, but I understand where you're coming from. I'm not sure what the line is, and I'm sure I'm being too loyal to the guy, but for me we haven't crossed that line yet. I still want to see what he can do. Because I remember 2012, and it was ****ing awesome.
 
Great post James - I 100% agree with every word there. :cheers:
 
well, every man and woman are entitled to their own opinion. that we can agree on.

but saying that a man is overpaid, cant succeed, and is going to fail before he even steps on the field, to me, is just not a normal thing you can predict or see without tending to venture towards the negative side. Like I said, everyone who was like that may end up being right, but they also were rooting against and downing a kid that has done some pretty spectacular things for this club. 2012 was a fun year...that run against MN, the deep bombs to Robinson, watching him and Morris keep every D guessing. That was fun to be a part of.
 
And I will maintain that 2012 was the anomaly.

1.) Read Option took league by surprise. Like them or not, the Shanahans ran an offense that the NFL was not prepared to defend.
2.) Robert had a very simple offense to run and was physically gifted enough to run it. (Experts have discussed this...Robert had fewer passing attempts than more than 80% of the QB's in 2012 that started as many games. This was Shanahan knowing what he had in his QB. It was a dumbed down offense for Robert)
3.) Down the stretch during that 7 game win streak, London Fletcher was a man possessed on defense and the defense stepped up big time.
Division Champs!

Take away the physical abilities of that QB.
Give the NFL a season to adapt to the read-option.
Make your QB run an offense he is not equipped to run.
3-13

I am not saying Griffin is incapable of winning. I am saying he will never be more than Randall Cunningham was in Philly...dynamic, wins games, contends for division title, goes to a couple playoffs. When he is in his 30's he might even have the chance to be Randall Cunningham in Minnesota. But we paid too much. It's not too early to say...I have a 5 year sample size to support that assertion.
 
Elephant said:
Take away the physical abilities of that QB.
Give the NFL a season to adapt to the read-option.
Make your QB run an offense he is not equipped to run.
3-13
Click to expand...

You think maybe you left something out there big guy? He came back from a devastating knee injury without missing a single game! I can keep an open mind about the skeptical take - I really can. But let's not leave out a pretty damn important factor that, honestly, is just as likely an explanation for the 3-13 season as anything his critics point to.
 
Boone said:
You think maybe you left something out there big guy? He came back from a devastating knee injury without missing a single game! I can keep an open mind about the skeptical take - I really can. But let's not leave out a pretty damn important factor that, honestly, is just as likely an explanation for the 3-13 season as anything his critics point to.
Click to expand...

Boone, that's covered in the statement..."take away the physical abilities of the QB".

He is no longer the major threat to run. He must be a quick read, quick react QB to survive in this league, especially with our OL that cannot protect for longer than a 3 step drop, and he has never "really" shown he can be effective in that way as a QB. Take away his run...you get what we saw last year.

In this pre-season, we saw a few reads, he'd check down to an outlet and get the ball off. But not as often as we'd see him leave the pocket too early and run. Kirk stood in that pocket and took the hit to complete some impressive passes this week and last. I don't see that from Robert...rarely have.

When given 2 options, run or pass to the primary target, like we saw in the read-option in his rookie year...he was outstanding. Defenses learned to deal with it, Robert's wheels were taken away and we're stuck with an over valued QB who doesn't appear to be as smart as everyone thinks.

You guys keep going back to 2012...he will never be as elusive as he was in that season so he must adjust and the adjustment period is taking much longer...if it ever will even materialize.
 
I agree with El on that point. We'll never see 2012 again. He can't be that QB and survive. I don't think that's even a debatable point anymore. So that leaves him a Pocket passer who should be able to use his excellent mobility to extend plays when needed, but not as the primary play. My reason for questioning the picks (I was 100% for the trade up) is that he isn't yet the QB we need him to be and his development is again hampered due to injury. At this point I'm not sure we can know for sure before a decision to re-sign him has to be made and that worries me. My concerns don't really have to do with Kirk's play, though it will be moot if he continues as he's started. But realistically we've seen so many number 2's do this for many teams in the past the odds are against him. It's just a pisser that we've seen good play from both these guys and we still don't know if either can be the guy long term. Not where I expected us to be when we made the pick.
 
CounterTrey said:
To me the reason we're so talent void has nothing to do with Griffin. That cap penalty just killed us. So I would say just based on the one season he's already given us in 2012 it was worth it. One amazing season in a collection of about 20 without any hope whatsoever makes it worth it to me. I am also one of the few evidently who thinks Griffin's days as an elite QB are far from over. It wouldn't shock me to see him set the world on fire after our dumbassed team trades him to a team that will surround him with talent that will protect him though. My God what that kid could do with protection.
Click to expand...

totally agree with you on all points. He will be traded and play lights out. Always happens to us, but you know what? All those players we let go, it was a good idea at the time, they weren't performing for us. So why keep them? Griffin is too valuable to sit the bench. But the jury is still out on Cousins. He hasn't shown any propensity for 4th qtr clutch come from behind play. But he has really had much opportunity. I don't see it in him though. Don't get me wrong, he is the highlight reel for the team this year and MVP. He just needs some W's on his side of the ledger to become legit.
 
I mean seriously...you guys keep talking about what the "experts" say...well, what are they saying now? From every account, the RG3 bandwagon has disappeared. Look at the link McD5 posted about Vegas' take on Robert. I am not the only one who is saying this now. Only difference? I have been saying it all along.
 
You've also claimed Jameis Winston was the second coming and would rewrite NFL quarterbacking. How's that truth looking right now Brian?

Look - your concerns have always been valid ones. I've never said they weren't. But you are overstating your case in my opinion. For example - prior to the ankle injury Griffin looked every bit as lightning fast, elusive, and dangerous as he did in 2012. But you describe him as if he's a shell of his former self. I don't think that's fair or accurate.

He definitely has to change his game. I have no doubt he could light up the field just like he did in 2012 if we used him that way - but he can't survive that kind of offense, I think we all agree on that. He has to change his game, and he appeared to be making strides in that direction when the latest injury occurred.

I don't know what the ending to his story will be. You are pretty defiant in indicating you do. And you don't know any more than any of us do. You may turn out to be 100% correct. But I prefer to see what happens, because you may also be proven horribly wrong. I hope so :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users
We are all excited to experience the announcement of draft selections IN REAL TIME TOGETHER. If you feel the need to be the first to 'blurt out' the team's picks you are better off staying out of chat and sticking to Twitter. Please refrain from announcing/discussing our picks until the official announcement has been made at the podium. Thanks!

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top