A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    James Madison

    Default Cake or Death?: The Quick Turnaround Theory

    I hear a lot of Redskins fans asking why Mike Shanahan can't simply turn things around quickly, ala` the Bengals this year, or the Falcons from a few years back? The answer lies in something this franchise has ignored for a VERY long time: draft picks.

    Let's take a look at the NFC South, which had unprecedented movement a few years ago. Teams went from first to worst with regularity, seemingly every year. Why?

    Let's look at the New Orleans Saints first. In 2006,...

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    Last edited by Goaldeje; 10-31-11 at 04:55 PM.
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    I pretty much agree but I don't think we should trade down next year. I think we should take the best QB we can with our #1 pick and draft offense from there.

    We spent our first two draft picks and most of our FA moves on defense last year. So I expect us to invest much more highly in the offense this year.

    I do think we need to add as many young players via the draft as we can, but I think it's time to go ahead and get the QB situation addressed first, then maybe draft some OL for depth and then in April of 2013 when our QB has had a year in the system and we have a decent OL, add some playmakers via the draft.

    I don't think there's any quick fixes though, this mess will take at least two more drafts to fix IMO.
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    Yep. Vinny royally effed us. Allen needs more time. I can support grabbing a QB, though if we managed to trade down after picking him, I would be quite happy with that. If we could get multiple seconds or thirds, cool.
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    I would definitely be happy with that scenario too.
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    QB! QB! QB! I'm even not opposed to spending some picks to move up...so long as it is not picks the following year. take another year of lumps and then load up the next year.
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    I actually think we are pretty set with our offensive skill players (minus QB) Hightower, Helu, and Torrain are a good mix of speed, shiftiness, hands and power. Hankerson, Paul, Armstrong, Gaffney, Austin, and Moss are a pretty above average wr corp or could very well become one. Paulson and Davis are both good at TE and Cooley could come back...

    What we don't have is a qb or a line. We especially don't have a line. We probably have 2 or maybe three NFL caliber starting linemen on the entire roster. And those aren't worldbeaters.

    A draft of QB and then six o linemen would make me smile... mind you, we also need help at corner, nose, and probably inside linebacker... but still... Imagine a draft of almost nothing, but linemen!
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  7. #7
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    I would agree but wheres the guarantee that with those extra picks from trading down that we get anyone useful, the early rounds are where you find guys who can probably play anywhere, its the middle and late rounds that the good teams still find contributors and even starters who fit their scheme. we havent been able to do that in a while.
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    Ryman, if you look at the stats I provided, the teams I applauded the teams I cited for valuing the first three rounds of draft picks. We should try that. I'm not advocating we do what Bill Belichick has been doing and trade down until we own the entire 7th round year; If we can trade down our (probably) high second rounder and get two seconds, or another second and an additional third, I think we have to go for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    QB! QB! QB! I'm even not opposed to spending some picks to move up...so long as it is not picks the following year. take another year of lumps and then load up the next year.
    I don't disagree with you at all. The question becomes how far should we be willing to go?

    If Luck is truly the best prospect since Peyton Manning, as most scouts are saying, what would a player like that be worth to this franchise? It could be the move that make us legitimate for the next 15 years. Two number ones? More? A Ditka?

    IF the kid lives up to billing, and I understand that's an if no matter how much of a "sure thing" he is, then two firsts would seem like a bargain. Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    I actually think we are pretty set with our offensive skill players (minus QB) Hightower, Helu, and Torrain are a good mix of speed, shiftiness, hands and power. Hankerson, Paul, Armstrong, Gaffney, Austin, and Moss are a pretty above average wr corp or could very well become one. Paulson and Davis are both good at TE and Cooley could come back...

    What we don't have is a qb or a line. We especially don't have a line. We probably have 2 or maybe three NFL caliber starting linemen on the entire roster. And those aren't worldbeaters.

    A draft of QB and then six o linemen would make me smile... mind you, we also need help at corner, nose, and probably inside linebacker... but still... Imagine a draft of almost nothing, but linemen!
    I agree on all points.

    Especially on a draft of a QB and 6 OL would make me one happy fan. IMO, improving the offense would impact the quality of the team more than fixing the holes on defense at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Ryman, if you look at the stats I provided, the teams I applauded the teams I cited for valuing the first three rounds of draft picks. We should try that. I'm not advocating we do what Bill Belichick has been doing and trade down until we own the entire 7th round year; If we can trade down our (probably) high second rounder and get two seconds, or another second and an additional third, I think we have to go for it.
    I know, you and I have discussed this in a thread last year actually, lol but some people think that continously trading down until we have a pile of picks is the best way to restock our roster, I tend to think that I would rather have 2 second rounders than 4 4th rounders because of the likelyhood that the 2nds will actually contribute.
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    Navy

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    I dont think there is a quick fix persay. Yes it might seem that way but most teams have front offices with visions and they hire there coaching staffs based on thoise visions are they always correct? nope good example the niners. I am still in the singletary is a good coach, the niners struck gold so far this year with harbaugh will it continue only next year and the following will tell.
    Now on to the others Atlanta they were only 2-3 years removed from a winning record soi dont think their situtation was that bad, then they made themselves better by hiring their current coach and getting the QB they have.
    The bengals any other owner and Lewis would have been fired a long time ago I believe he is a good coach.

    Usually when front offices hire a coach its because that coach fits their style every once in awhile will you see a team go in a totally different direction ala Denver and hiring Mcdaniels and running a different offense than they did under shanny.

    Now onto the skins they have had no vision Hire a coach 2 years later dont like what he runs hire another coach and wala you have to switch personell to fit that coaches scheme. Thats why i think no matter how bad this season and next season are Shanahan should start seeing results in the fourth season its a long time for suffering but if it were not for suffering us skinsfans would not have any rings at all the last 20 years.
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    Michigan State

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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    I actually think we are pretty set with our offensive skill players (minus QB) Hightower, Helu, and Torrain are a good mix of speed, shiftiness, hands and power. Hankerson, Paul, Armstrong, Gaffney, Austin, and Moss are a pretty above average wr corp or could very well become one. Paulson and Davis are both good at TE and Cooley could come back...

    What we don't have is a qb or a line. We especially don't have a line. We probably have 2 or maybe three NFL caliber starting linemen on the entire roster. And those aren't worldbeaters.

    A draft of QB and then six o linemen would make me smile... mind you, we also need help at corner, nose, and probably inside linebacker... but still... Imagine a draft of almost nothing, but linemen!
    I agree we don't have a QB or o-line. I do not agree that we are pretty set with the offensive skill players. We don't have a decent WR other than Santana who's injured. None of our WRs have done jack.

    The sackfest we witnessed on Sunday was due to a combination of factors: poor O-line play, poor QB play, and WRs that can't get open. On any given play any one of those factors could result in a sack and often did. On some occasions more than one of those factors worked in combination together. Ugly. Especially when you combine that with a lack of running game, so the other team can just tee off.

    Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better any time soon. The O-line isn't going to magically start playing better, which means no rushing attack and poor pass blocking. The WRs might start to mature, but who knows. And by the time they do Beck will probably be a shell-shocked mess if he isn't already.

    The line might start to play better if Trent Willilams comes back and they move Montgomery back to center. Still, that might just be too little too late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    I actually think we are pretty set with our offensive skill players (minus QB) Hightower, Helu, and Torrain are a good mix of speed, shiftiness, hands and power. Hankerson, Paul, Armstrong, Gaffney, Austin, and Moss are a pretty above average wr corp or could very well become one. Paulson and Davis are both good at TE and Cooley could come back...

    What we don't have is a qb or a line. We especially don't have a line. We probably have 2 or maybe three NFL caliber starting linemen on the entire roster. And those aren't worldbeaters.

    A draft of QB and then six o linemen would make me smile... mind you, we also need help at corner, nose, and probably inside linebacker... but still... Imagine a draft of almost nothing, but linemen!
    But our receivers have shown us nothing thus far, that's tangible.
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    I dunno China. The pictures provided in the sack breakdown were pretty damning. Sure looked like some of the receivers were running free, Beck just didn't spot them. The line did better than we think.
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    Speaking of Trent, when is he due back ?

    Maybe this Sunday ?
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    Executive Vice President/Head Coach Mike Shanahan

    On the injury status of tackle Trent Williams:
    “No, we’ll find out more on Wednesday, but he has improved so there’s a chance that he’ll be ready this week.”

    https://www.bgobsession.com/showthread.php?t=38881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    But our receivers have shown us nothing thus far, that's tangible.
    Not sure. I'm getting mixed reports. Some have said that the receivers have been open a fair amount and Beck missed them. Others said the receivers weren't getting open. A third group says the pressure made Beck go to his first read and then panic and surrender.

    Not sure who to believe. Austin has made a couple of nice catches, but yeah, overall the pups haven't delivered. Why, your guess is as good as mine. I do know they looked worlds better in preseason... for whatever tat's worth.
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    What is ironic is the Redskins don't want to appear to inept so they trade for Gaffney and sign Stallworth and seem headed for 5-11 anyway.

    This team needed a Jimmy Johnson type tear down circa 1989-1990 with the clear intent of drafting high to claim top players for the future.

    Who cares if a team is 1-15 one or two seasons to secure the future?

    It's better than being stuck in mediocrity trying to say with a straight face that Grossman, Gaffney, Stallworth, Beck, etc give us the 'best' chance to win.

    Win what?

    Be the best last place team in the NFC?

    What a joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    I dunno China. The pictures provided in the sack breakdown were pretty damning. Sure looked like some of the receivers were running free, Beck just didn't spot them. The line did better than we think.
    I allowed that it was all three factors, O-line, QB and WRs. On any given play it could have been any of them. Sometimes the line blew it. Sometimes the QB blew it. In either of those instances the WRs could have been open and it wouldn't matter. However, sometimes when the line and QB did OK, the WRs didn't get open. They all have to work together and they never did.

    I'll give you that the QB might have been more responsible than you would expect with such high sack numbers, but you can't convince me that the line did OK. Buffalo still got pressure and the running game was nonexistant.

    We might not be able to accurately judge our WRs if the QB can't ever get them the ball either because if his own incompetence or the line's. That's a problem that could delay the development of our young WRs. Any way you look at it it's not good.
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