Yahoo: Shanahan Stumbling After Wrong Decisions At QB

The truth is some of the guys we had here on defense before just weren't good guys. Haynesworth was a bum who has never won anything despite the attitude. Carlos Rogers never lived up to being a top 10 pick and all he did for TWO years is complain about his next contract.

Other players like Daniels and Carter were just getting old.

Let's face it. This team was very unappealing after the 2009 season.

If it wasn't Washington and the owner wasn't wealthy we would have ended up with a Tony Sparano type coach with no real credentials.
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Haynesworth was solid for us in his first year despite often being misused (yes its possible for that to happen) some of you seem to forget that even in his first year he flashed that ability, would he have kept it up? who knows. Carter was fine, and Jarmon was developing, you guys forget, that trying to change a player sets them back as well. lets not forget Rak was and is better with his hand in the dirt. would it have been perfect? nope, we were aging and needed some fresh blood especially at LB and DT but we were far better off than we were last season.

we would have needed a sam would have moved Rak to LE, a DT griffin was still usable in a rotation with the guys we had and a FS absolutely needed, and everyone can always use an upgrade at CB. of course every team needs upgrades Neo, but we were decent on defence, I could easily show stats that show that had we had a decent offence under zorn we win at least 5 more games. instead we made gaping holes at a spot that we had some depth at (de) alienated our best DT who was admittedly already spotty but who could at least be serviceable and at times dominant. so yes tweaking the scheme, adding a couple players is a hell of a long way from complete rebuild.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, Ryman. Some of what you say is true (Haynesworth being misused) but some is off the mark to me (Rak is way too light ever be an every down LDE, as was Carter).

I watched the defense fail to stop the other the team when the offense had a lead too many times to ever believe it was going to be anything but a year older under Shanahan and need the rebuild he put into converting it to the 3-4 anyway. *shrug*

Ryman, here's the problem I have with your post: you seem to be saying we didn't need to rebuild. If I am wrong in that interpretation, I apologize, please disregard the rest of my post.

I'm not sure how you could watch the Skins over the last decade really, and not say we needed a complete rebuild. Every effing year, we built the team around a win-now strategy, and every effing year we spun our wheels. Either we would be just good enough to make the playoffs but make precious little noise in the playoffs, or we would flop because the win-now-FA route just didn't work with the talent evaluation process we had (looking right at you Vinny).

Why did we want to continue in that cycle? Why not start over, get younger and rebuild? And at that point, if that decision was made, then why not go ahead and install a new D? Seems like the perfect time to do it to me. Break the cycle of mediocrity man!

Haynesworth was a mistake reguardless of any scenario. I like most believed he could contribute...ala Stubblefield and Wilkerson but when the dust settles and reality becomes clear... they were all huge disappointments that never lived up to the hype and set the franchise back more than a few years.

I thought I'd throw in some comparison stats in one area.

Sacks. The comparison is between 2009 and now-the totals are for the complete 16 game 2009 season as compared to the first 6 games this season.

2009 complete season:

Andre Carter-11.0
Brian Orakpo-11.0
Albert Haynesworth-4.0
London Fletcher-2.0
Reed Doughty-2.0
Kedric Golston-2.0
Cornelius Griffin-2.0
Lorenzo Alexander-2.0
Laron Landry-1.0
Justin Tryon-1.0
Chris Wilson-1.0
Philip Daniels-1.0

Total sacks-40


Source :http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2009.htm

After 6 games this season-plus projection if pace continues. I went conservative on the projections, rounding down if less than.5 and adding the "+" sign if over.5.

Brian Orakpo-4.5--proj--12
Adam Carriker-4.5--proj--12
Stephen Bowen-2.5--proj--6.5+
Ryan Kerrigan-2.0--proj--5.0+
Chris Neild-1.5--proj--4.0
Rocky McIntosh-1.0--2.5+
DeAngelo Hall-1.0--2.5+
Barry Cofield-1.0--2.5+
O.J. Atogwe-0.5--1.0
London Fletcher-0.5--1.0
Laron Landry-0.5--1.0
Kedric Golston-0.5--1.0
Projected total sacks-51

Carriker has already exceeded what Al Haynesworth did for the whole season, and he together with Cofield and Bowen have already in 6 games equaled what the defensive front of Haynesworth, Golston and Griffin did in 16 games. Additionally, DeAngelo Hall, and Rocky McIntosh weren't even involved in a sack in 2009.

My point here is this-it is the system and the 3-4 that is enabling a greater number of options to be available and a greater number and variety of players to be involved in the strategy of harrassing opposing QBs. This could not have been done with the players and system in place in 2009. Sacks are only part of the picture-sacks are an indicator of how effectively a team is able to penetrate into the backfield and pose a threat to the opposing QB.

I am convinced that we are doing a better job of than we were in 2009 because of the change in the system being used in addition to gaining more productive players that were on the roster at that time. I see no reason to think that anything short of this level of change would have produced these results. Was the change well managed-probably not as well as it should have been. However the results do indicate a definite measurable positive upgrade from the defense that was in place in 2009.

Strikes me as a pretty silly article. So Shanahan believes he has two years - and his 'win now' strategy involves dumping half the vets on the team, bringing in McNabb, then ditching him and handing the reigns over to Grossman and Beck?

Shanahan really IS a genius!!!

[THIS!!!]It's ironic that some of you that complained so vigorously about Snyder's lack of patience in years past are already impatient with less than 2 years on the board for Shanahan.[/THIS!!!]

Boone said:

Strikes me as a pretty silly article. So Shanahan believes he has two years - and his 'win now' strategy involves dumping half the vets on the team, bringing in McNabb, then ditching him and handing the reigns over to Grossman and Beck?

Shanahan really IS a genius!!!

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I don't want to give anything away prematurely but I think you're going to find some of the things I found for Redskins Recon on the topic of our HC really interesting.

Stay tuned.

Tease.

Boone said:

[THIS!!!]It's ironic that some of you that complained so vigorously about Snyder's lack of patience in years past are already impatient with less than 2 years on the board for Shanahan.[/THIS!!!]

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I may have to figure out how to make the [THIS][/THIS] tags official after this one, Boone.

Nicely done, sir.

Boone said:

[THIS!!!]It's ironic that some of you that complained so vigorously about Snyder's lack of patience in years past are already impatient with less than 2 years on the board for Shanahan.[/THIS!!!]

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Is anyone in this thread showing a lack of patience with Shananhan? I'm not seeing that at all ...
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Henry - I wasn't thinking of the posts in this thread with that quote - just 'Redskins Nation' in general. There's definitely a tone of disaster and even some hysteria in the air after two bad losses. So Bulldog's comment rings true for me.

Neophyte said:

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, Ryman. Some of what you say is true (Haynesworth being misused) but some is off the mark to me (Rak is way too light ever be an every down LDE, as was Carter).

I watched the defense fail to stop the other the team when the offense had a lead too many times to ever believe it was going to be anything but a year older under Shanahan and need the rebuild he put into converting it to the 3-4 anyway. *shrug*

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actually when Rak was almost 270 he was pretty much the weight of several every down de's. you scheme around things like that. dont forget he has ridiculous power and strength, watch as he literally blows up Olinemen. carter was undersized but played very well against the run, and we had Jarmon to sub in on run downs to move Rak to lb for those as well.

I agree that the defence needed some work, not a complete rebuild though. Thats why I was so against it. If we can sustain the improvement we have shown against the pass and somehow stop the run once in a while I'll be ok with it.

Goal, no hell no, this team needed a complete rebuild on O and needed a serious talent infusion on D, but when you have limited resources, you have to be creative, and we werent.

The premise seems stupid to me so it's hard to go on from there without scoffing at a lot of it.

How many of us or the rest of the Redskins fan base expected anything better than 5-7 wins this season? Maybe a few were predicting .500 and the hopeless homers always predict things like 10 and 11 wins but not many I've talked to. Seems to me that although the last two losses were rough, they were totally predictable and we're right where most of expected us to be.

We all knew our secondary sucked so good passing teams were going to have their way with us in large part and put up big numbers. That's not going to change as long as we're fielding such a sorry squad of Cornerbacks.

Same goes for QB, we knew this was a team that needed their QB to manage and if our run got shut down it was going to be hard to win. We also knew Grossman was turnover prone. So why all the gnashing of teeth? This is EXACTLY what many of us expected. I said I could live with it as long as we stick to a plan and keep the rebuilding project going. I've been frustrated too but I've seen a TON of progress. How many of us expected the start we had?

As to the point about Shanahan and having two years. Nope, sorry, don't buy it for several reasons.

1. Bruce Allen has clout and pull with Snyder for the same reason Gibbs did: respect for the Redskins and football history. Allen has a resume a hell of a lot more bolstered by success and Redskins lore than Vinny ever did, he's not getting canned two years into this.

2. Shanahan has too much ego to even sign on with that kind of ultimatum hanging over his head, 2 years is what you give some unproven coach, not a 2 ring wearing future Hall of Famer who's done it in THIS era. Even Snyder has learned that by now.

3. Snyder was willing to give Spurrier a 3rd freakin year...if he was willing to sit with that clown there's no way you'll ever convince me he's ready to throw in the towel on Shanahan and Co after 2 years and halfway through the rebuild. There's no way Snyder wasn't given a frank and thorough assessment of the state this team was in when Shanny came in, so I don't buy that Snyder was deluded about just how bad this roster was. The massive purge we've had proves that in very tangible terms.

4. McNabb was a big mistake but one the Vikings made as well for the same reasons. They didn't buy the laziness etc stuff, they THOUGHT it was spin, they also mistakenly thought they could get DM to revitalize his career with one last push. In hindsight it's pretty obvious that he was bad news when the team he'd piloted to all those playoff runs was willing to trade him for very little to a division rival who was an elite Quarterback away from being dangerous. They had no idea he was going to be as much of a turd as he's turned out to be, Andy Reid sure wasn't letting onto that. Mcnabb also says all the right things off the field and away from Practice but by all accounts doesn't extend that to actual football. It's easy (although maddening) to see why Shanny was duped there. Live and learn, so IMO that's exactly why they stood pat this year and are waiting for next when the QB crop is MUCH better. Bite the bullet with B&G in the B&G for one year and then continue to rebuild next year.

5. Depth. We made some huge strides in roster upgrade this year but even with 12 picks and a VERY productive strategy employed with FA's UDFA's you still can only do so much in one year. Most of us knew that we were pretty thin in some areas coming in and if we stayed healthy we'd be able to compete but if we didn't it was going to be TOUGH. Well one starting TE, WR, RB and two linemen is pretty damn tough. When we improve our depth next year (assuming) and get back guys like Williams and the DE/DT we lost for the season things will be considerably different and there won't be such a dramatic fall off. I think it's prudent to remember the ENTIRE roster needed an overhaul and you can't do that with 12 picks and a lean FA market in the middle of a lockout.

I'm not thrilled with the last two losses but honestly, who REALLY expected anything different at this stage?

Boone said:

[THIS!!!]It's ironic that some of you that complained so vigorously about Snyder's lack of patience in years past are already impatient with less than 2 years on the board for Shanahan.[/THIS!!!]

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Pavlov's Redskins fans? We're conditioned to respond this way.

I was actually thinking about my response to this question last night, and had the same thought. Its silly to even think about firing him before the end of his 5 years, and he should probably be extended even longer if we want to do this correctly. For better or worse, we need to let Shanahan do his thing. At the very worst, we'll be better off 3-4 years from now even if Shanny is then fired. Maybe Snyder can throw the big bucks at Mike Tomlin then.

Nevermind. Not important.