Finding ways to lose

They ran the ball pretty well in the second half to control the clock on us, yes Shanny jr was calling a wtf game when we did have the ball but the truth is , this defence is allowing teams to control the clock, after they got a lead on us, we needed to get more aggressive, not less. I am not the only person who noticed this. btw, the offence sucking isnt a surprise, thats what happens when you ignore an actual weakness (Oline) to fill holes on a created weakness (our defence).

Rymanofthenorth said:

They ran the ball pretty well in the second half to control the clock on us, yes Shanny jr was calling a wtf game when we did have the ball but the truth is , this defence is allowing teams to control the clock, after they got a lead on us, we needed to get more aggressive, not less. I am not the only person who noticed this. btw, the offence sucking isnt a surprise, thats what happens when you ignore an actual weakness (Oline) to fill holes on a created weakness (our defence).

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except for this game we have basically owned the time of possesion only losing to dallas by about 2 minutes the other 3 we have had it easily. we had to change the defense the 4-3 we ran sucked it couldnt hold leads gave up 3rd and whatever almost every time. and the never had sacks or turnovers .

Rymanofthenorth said:

They ran the ball pretty well in the second half to control the clock on us, yes Shanny jr was calling a wtf game when we did have the ball but the truth is , this defence is allowing teams to control the clock, after they got a lead on us, we needed to get more aggressive, not less. I am not the only person who noticed this. btw, the offence sucking isnt a surprise, thats what happens when you ignore an actual weakness (Oline) to fill holes on a created weakness (our defence).

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You're off here Ryman, imo. Haslett called a pretty good game. My only gripe with him is that he doesn't seem to adjust well within the game, series to series; but his halftime adjustments? Damn. Even you have to admit he knows what he is doing there. I mean, damn. It was pretty obvious to me he came in wanting to take away the big play through blitz and deep coverage. The Eagles took what we gave them which was quick drops and short routes. As I said, I wish Haslett had made an adjustment during the first half, but holding a team like Philly with DeSean, Vick and McCoy to 20 points, while your own QB seems determined to give the ball to the other team as often as possible is pretty damned good.

As Lanky said, I'm really not sure how you can pin this one on Haslett.

fansince62 said:

for crying out loud...how many times does a team have to run a cutback against the middle of the line before Haslett gets his act together and actually schemes to stop it?

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What is it with people having a hard on for Haslett? We were awful last year, I get it. We're not awful this year. Period. We're not great, either, but we're certainly not awful.

And btw, perhaps the Eagles success running the ball has to do at least a little with the fact that McCoy is one of the best running backs in the league.

Seriously, at the beginning of the game, if I had told you all that our defense had held the Eagles to their second lowest point total of the season, and one turnover, you're telling you wouldn't have been happy with that? The D played very well, well enough to win.

redskins26 said:

I would rather try to get the Home run and put the other team on the offensive for a change instead of us. It sucks we havent been able to have that command of a football game in a long time week in and week out

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A couple of homeruns were there, but Rex underthrew a defender his receiver beat by two yards by five yards and an easy td became an easy interception.

Goaldeje said:

What is it with people having a hard on for Haslett? We were awful last year, I get it. We're not awful this year. Period. We're not great, either, but we're certainly not awful.

And btw, perhaps the Eagles success running the ball has to do at least a little with the fact that McCoy is one of the best running backs in the league.

Seriously, at the beginning of the game, if I had told you all that our defense had held the Eagles to their second lowest point total of the season, and one turnover, you're telling you wouldn't have been happy with that? The D played very well, well enough to win.

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ummm...I call them as I see them. not gonna play SGT Schultz and pretend "I zee nozthing"

you expanded from a specific observation to the whole Defense. get your act together man and focus on one statement at a time. this is football 101: keep running the same play until the defense stops it. didn't happen in the first half. in this game, at least, the "on the fly" adjustment skill wasn't evident. it's a chess match and it looks like Reid has the upper hand every time we play.

yes..McCoy is right up their with AP, Turner and the rest. NOT. The Iggles RBs generally do well as a function of scheme more than anything else...IMO.

Rymanofthenorth said:

They ran the ball pretty well in the second half to control the clock on us, yes Shanny jr was calling a wtf game when we did have the ball but the truth is , this defence is allowing teams to control the clock, after they got a lead on us, we needed to get more aggressive, not less. I am not the only person who noticed this. btw, the offence sucking isnt a surprise, thats what happens when you ignore an actual weakness (Oline) to fill holes on a created weakness (our defence).

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Why did they control the clock? Because we ran the ball only 14 times, and Grossman was too busy throwing interceptions the rest of the time to control it. No, they did not control the clock because of anything Haslett did - if anything, its because of Haslett we were even IN the game. They held an over 2:1 TOP advantage, outgained us by 135 yards, and we had a -3 TO differential. Yeah, losing by 7 was a minor miracle. The only difference between this game and last year's debacle was a solid defense, IMO.

Lanky Livingston said:

Why did they control the clock? Because we ran the ball only 14 times, and Grossman was too busy throwing interceptions the rest of the time to control it. No, they did not control the clock because of anything Haslett did - if anything, its because of Haslett we were even IN the game. They held an over 2:1 TOP advantage, outgained us by 135 yards, and we had a -3 TO differential. Yeah, losing by 7 was a minor miracle. The only difference between this game and last year's debacle was a solid defense, IMO.

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Yes. Could not agree more.

fansince62 said:

ummm...I call them as I see them. not gonna play SGT Schultz and pretend "I zee nozthing"

you expanded from a specific observation to the whole Defense. get your act together man and focus on one statement at a time. this is football 101: keep running the same play until the defense stops it. didn't happen in the first half. in this game, at least, the "on the fly" adjustment skill wasn't evident. it's a chess match and it looks like Reid has the upper hand every time we play.

yes..McCoy is right up their with AP, Turner and the rest. NOT. The Iggles RBs generally do well as a function of scheme more than anything else...IMO.

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So you're choosing to see the trees, not the forest then?

I agreed with you that his on the fly adjustments, or lack thereof, bother me. But to say that Reid greatly outschemed Haslett is just incorrect. You are basing your opinion on the fact that McCoy, who despite what you say, IS one of the best RBs in the league, gashed us a few times in the second half for solid runs.

I'm looking at the entire performance, and am disappointed with some things that I have already mentioned, but am greatly encouraged with others. We're not a great defense. But we are greatly improved at this point, which is a VERY good sign, imo.

Those who are still complaining about Haslett appear to me to simply have an ax to grind at this point. Haslett was not the problem yesterday. Period.

Sorry Fellahs I'm not buying it. the fecals ran the ball and controlled the clock, I am pretty sure the reason the score was only 20 had more to do with Vick being woozy from getting killed early on. we needed to increase the pressure not lay off. what is funny is the same guys lauding the bend but dont break we saw in the second half are the same ones talking about how the 4-3 didnt get us sacks and turnovers. IT WASNT THE SCHEME IT WAS THE AGGRESSION LEVEL, and if we play bend but dont break in a 3-4 we will see a lot more losses like this one. btw I agree that Shanny JR is the majority to blame, but allowing 20 points in a half before settling down isnt great either. the "adjustments" he made in the second half had far less to do with the fecals lack of scoring than Vick looking lost did.

I am with Ryman on this one, again!

I have to give Haslett credit, it is night and day from where we were last year. Not too much of a surprise since we had no where to go but up in the second year of the scheme. I still wish Shanny had brought in Wade Phillips to run this defense. Sure it would have been another defense change, but Houston has grasped it quickly. We could have here with the players brought in this off-season.

Anyway, that is neither here nor there, a woulda shoulda coulda on my part I just felt like mentioning.

Back to Haslett and his deficiencies yesterday. Again I want to mention, he deserves credit for keeping the Eagles scoreless in the second half even though he should have stacked the box when the Eagles were trying to run the clock out. There was no reason to keep the safeties deep, if we got beat by the receivers in one on one we lose, but don't stop the run, we lose. They had a 2 WR set so we should have had 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run with the clock winding down.

But his first half play calling was once again reactionary. Now, I know adjustments need to be made when you let a team drive down the field and score, but Haslett always seems to get shell shocked when the opposing team drives with such ease like the Eagles did on that second drive yesterday. That shell shock could have really been disastrous like last year, luckily the defense gave us a chance in the 2nd half. If only Kyle hadn't been so foolish to start the 2nd half and tried to hit the home run instead of churning off yardage. I will get into his faults later.

In the 1st quarter after a solid first series against the Eagles offense, Reid called a perfect drive against the pressure Haslett applied. He chipped away with quick throws. On that 1st TD drive for the Eagles, Vick did not drop back further than a 3 step drop. He threw quick slants and screens all the way down the field. The next drive, Haslett eased up on the pressure and Vick had more time to throw. he shredded us again and then they got McCoy going. Reid owned Haslett in the 1st half calling the perfect game. Haslett got beat in the 1st quarter and tried to play catch up again. Reid dictated the action against us. Reid has owned Haslett the past 2 games.

As for Kyle? It's simple, run the damn football! I will repeat myself because Kyle did this against Dallas in the 2nd half after we got the run game going, Rex Grossman is not Matt Schaub and he is not throwing to Andre Johnson! I was on the Rex bandwagon to start the season because I thought he could have matured, but when he threw his 2nd INT yesterday, I was calling for Beck to start the second half. Rex is Rex and his days as a starting QB in the NFL are truly over. I was hoping he could have been that Cinderella story so many other teams get that we never do. Anyway, Kyle has proven that he does not understand his player's limits. My fear now is that Beck comes in, starts next week and Kyle sees his chance to continue to throw the football because he has a QB with more mobility.

Hey El, good to have you back.

Kyle screwed the pooch, not Haslett. My feeling on Haslett are well documented in this very thread, so I will leave that alone. Kyle is the problem, no doubt. Shanny, Sr. needs to step in and have a come to Jesus talk with Jr. about running the ball. Running the ball would have helped Haslett as well, I believe. To be fair to Haslett, making adjustments can be difficult when your defense is only off the field for 2 minutes because your offensive coordinator just called three straight pass plays.

We have three talented RBs; why are we not using them?

just because one screwed the pooch doesnt mean the other didnt lmao,I completely agree Goal, we need to use our backs, the problem is our Oline is so damn bad that we will average about 2.5 a carry when we do, and once in a while break one for 10.

My issue is that when a team is moving the ball on you and working the clock, YOU HAVE GOT TO ADJUST. there needs to be a sense of urgency, and given Hasletts comments and worse yet Orakpos comments about the lack of urgency its disturbing. are we far better than last year? yes of course we are, but are we seeing the exact same basic issues , just with better talent? yes we are.

Goaldeje said:

Hey El, good to have you back.

Kyle screwed the pooch, not Haslett. My feeling on Haslett are well documented in this very thread, so I will leave that alone. Kyle is the problem, no doubt. Shanny, Sr. needs to step in and have a come to Jesus talk with Jr. about running the ball. Running the ball would have helped Haslett as well, I believe. To be fair to Haslett, making adjustments can be difficult when your defense is only off the field for 2 minutes because your offensive coordinator just called three straight pass plays.

We have three talented RBs; why are we not using them?

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I am clamoring for the run game! Have been since Dallas beat us! Had the nepotism discussion with a friend yesterday and while I think Kyle was a good hire, he needs to be reigned in by Pops!!! Wonder if Sr. will do it. We'll see if Kyle gets pass happy now that his hand picked, mobile, QB should be starting.

As for Haslett, he is not exempt from responsibility yesterday. He does not get a pass. If I had to place more fault on either coach, it would be Kyle, but Haslett made poor decisions yesterday. Sure he's gotten better, but look at his play calling after we go down. He gets shell shocked. When given time to adjust, like at half time, he has done a good job, but on the fly in the heat of the moment, he stumbles.

Im glad im not the only one who noticed how shellshocked haslett acts when we get down, he is not meant to be a high risk high reward pressure type DC, I think he would be far more comfortable playing a vanilla zone scheme with bend but dont break plays.

Rymanofthenorth said:

Sorry Fellahs I'm not buying it. the fecals ran the ball and controlled the clock, I am pretty sure the reason the score was only 20 had more to do with Vick being woozy from getting killed early on. we needed to increase the pressure not lay off. what is funny is the same guys lauding the bend but dont break we saw in the second half are the same ones talking about how the 4-3 didnt get us sacks and turnovers. IT WASNT THE SCHEME IT WAS THE AGGRESSION LEVEL, and if we play bend but dont break in a 3-4 we will see a lot more losses like this one. btw I agree that Shanny JR is the majority to blame, but allowing 20 points in a half before settling down isnt great either. the "adjustments" he made in the second half had far less to do with the fecals lack of scoring than Vick looking lost did.

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Its amazing to me that you can bash Haslett for the 2nd-half defense in which they gave up zero points and got a turnover. Simply amazing.

As far as the first half? The Redskins ran 24 plays (not counting kicks) on 5 drives. Less than 5 plays per drive. 2 of those 24 plays were interceptions thrown by Rex. The fact they only scored 20 points is a minor miracle.

Rymanofthenorth said:

My issue is that when a team is moving the ball on you and working the clock, YOU HAVE GOT TO ADJUST. there needs to be a sense of urgency, and given Hasletts comments and worse yet Orakpos comments about the lack of urgency its disturbing. are we far better than last year? yes of course we are, but are we seeing the exact same basic issues , just with better talent? yes we are.

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How can you look at the Eagles scoring 20 points in one half verse ZERO POINTS in the other, and say he didn't make adjustments with a straight face?

And a sense of urgency? Maybe the defense could have locked down better, yes. But when the offense gives the ball away four times, it wears down a D. Show me a defensive coordinator in the league who can generate turnovers on demand, and I'll show you a DC getting paid $50M a year.

are you for real Lanky? arent you one of the guys who is always saying that even though our defence in the 4-3 tended to give up fewer points, it wasnt a good defence because it didnt get turnovers and allowed teams to control the ball?

this is a scheme thing, not an alignment thing, its actually very simple if you pay attention. Letting a team drive the ball up and down the field is bad when you arent protecting a lead. you need to take chances and attack. yes we "held" them to no points, lmao, they were protecting a lead and we should have been trying to cut into it not playing like we were the ones up 20. ffs the only reason we were able to do anything against them was Reid got gunshy with Vick (I think he had a dinger myself because on several plays he looked lost) after we beat him up in the first half.

Haslett needs to scheme better and game plan better, its that simple.

Lanky Livingston said:

Why did they control the clock? Because we ran the ball only 14 times, and Grossman was too busy throwing interceptions the rest of the time to control it. No, they did not control the clock because of anything Haslett did - if anything, its because of Haslett we were even IN the game. They held an over 2:1 TOP advantage, outgained us by 135 yards, and we had a -3 TO differential. Yeah, losing by 7 was a minor miracle. The only difference between this game and last year's debacle was a solid defense, IMO.

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I know what I saw. The Iggles pretty much ran all over the defense and mastered the short passing game as well. we took away the deep game.....and were out-coached elsewhere.

I will agree the defense was a lot better than last year's bunch also coached by Haslett. geez...the Iggles had 197 yds rushing! that's quality defense! it's the rushing game we've been pointing to. and I agree with those who said we were never really in the game. the Beck TD was too little...too late. yes...the Offense was much worse. but the defense wasn't exactly stellar either....they were run all over.

The thing is Al, some guys here wont admit it because it goes contrary to their strongly held position that turnovers trump all, but the truth is that defence needs to be fluid, at times its ok to give up big plays if you are making bigger plays, but sometimes you have to lock down from the get go. DC's really come from 2 schools of thought, high risk high reward guys who gamble and try to dictate terms to offences, they blitz, allow some big plays because they gamble and are fun to watch, others will basically take away the big play but by doing so allow teams to drive, these guys are the " three things happen when they throw the ball and 2 of them are bad" guys. they think that the more plays an offence runs, the bigger the likelyhood they will make a mistake. both types have matchups they will do well against, but against an elite team you have to apply pressure. and thats what we lacked with Blahche, and its what Haslett is starting to show as well, with the typical "call the same play several times in a row" and the sudden calling of basic zones.

btw Lanky im with you on Shanny Junior, I think its inexcusable to "what we do works" when you know what will work against a specific team you damn well use it lol.