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The Shanahans have restored a Redskin tradition: The QB controversy

This is

[media]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_umeN_4R5F9M/TURbGPd8maI/AAAAAAAABKw/bHmcGl7e9v4/s1600/quisp-cereal.jpg[/media] VS. [media]http://api.ning.com/files/rJByG*IOcsccWB6ydSLk4DmHhMGeIT549zu40Y-wOU36BSogUf6wvwBSd-56eFbVEImqcNuPwaF17sWYAPUivJvaUuDKJSLv/qwwisp03.jpg[/media] all over again.

Lot's of largely unfounded opinions out there. Grossman is a 'turnover machine'. Beck has a 'weak arm'. Truth is, both guys have looked pretty damn good so far. Why can't we leave it at that and support whichever one gets the nod?
 
This is

[media]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_umeN_4R5F9M/TURbGPd8maI/AAAAAAAABKw/bHmcGl7e9v4/s1600/quisp-cereal.jpg[/media] VS. [media]http://api.ning.com/files/rJByG*IOcsccWB6ydSLk4DmHhMGeIT549zu40Y-wOU36BSogUf6wvwBSd-56eFbVEImqcNuPwaF17sWYAPUivJvaUuDKJSLv/qwwisp03.jpg[/media] all over again.

Lot's of largely unfounded opinions out there. Grossman is a 'turnover machine'. Beck has a 'weak arm'. Truth is, both guys have looked pretty damn good so far. Why can't we leave it at that and support whichever one gets the nod?

You have some nerve trying to bring reason into the discussion.
 
I'm not sure 1960's cereal analogies qualify as 'reason', but I am ready for Shanahan to pick a QB and for this season to start. I think they have known for awhile who the starter is going to be - they just want to respect both QB's efforts and give them every opportunity to change their minds.

I think they well know who 'the guy' will be, at least for game 1. They just haven't shared it with the rest of us yet :)
 
So who do you think it will be? Not should be, but will be. And why do you think that was predetermined? Or perhaps I should ask, when do you think they decided?
 
So who do you think it will be? Not should be, but will be. And why do you think that was predetermined? Or perhaps I should ask, when do you think they decided?

I don't think it was pre-determined. It's obvious that if they really were solid on RG, they'd have brought him in as starter, and forced Beck to outright unseat him. They didn't do that - which is a pretty good indication they want Beck to show he can be the guy.

I think Grossman, no question, is a more capable QB right now. I don't think, given his experience, and fairly solid play last year and in pre-season this year, that can be denied.

But if you think Beck can be the guy, you have to find out for sure this year. Otherwise, we're drafting for one next year, and probably giving away the house to do it. If Beck could actually be 'the guy', that has enormous implications for next year's draft and the next 4-5 years. I can't see them giving Beck the kind of opportunity they've given him if they didn't at least believe it's possible.

I really don't know - but I get the feeling Beck will be the starter. He hasn't necessarily 'earned it' - but I think the coaches are determined to find out what his upside is.
 
Truth is, both guys have looked pretty damn good so far. Why can't we leave it at that and support whichever one gets the nod?

What fun would that be?
 
Lot's of largely unfounded opinions out there. Grossman is a 'turnover machine'. Beck has a 'weak arm'. Truth is, both guys have looked pretty damn good so far. Why can't we leave it at that and support whichever one gets the nod?

LOL - the Redskins could have Tom Brady & Peyton Manning on the roster, and fans would be gnashing their teeth back and forth about which one should be the signal-caller on opening day. :)
 
LOL - the Redskins could have Tom Brady & Peyton Manning on the roster, and fans would be gnashing their teeth back and forth about which one should be the signal-caller on opening day. :)

I'd take Brady, he's dirtier :cool4:
 
I don't think we have a true controversy until we have TWO passers who have gotten on the field in the offense under live fire and have a body of work to be judged on.

I have never seen Beck play in the NFL. I didn't see his 4 game stint in Miami with the 1-15 Dolphins in 2007. He didn't get on the field last year here in Washington.

Meanwhile, Grossman hasn't seen a whole lot of NFL action the past 3 years either.
 
True dat. I can't wait for that to change for one of these guys. I'm truly excited we're starting a new era. And appear to be on a much more solid path.
 
I've only heard about it so far, gotta find the audio for that ...
 
JReid from the Post said something last night on Twitter that surprised me a bit - Malcom Kelly was a Dan Snyder pick all the way, and assumed it was common knowledge. First I'd heard of it, and Jamie Mottram hadn't heard it before either (of Mister Irrelevant fame). I wonder exactly how much influence Vinny actually had?
 
Thanks, LL. I probably should have been more specific on what I was getting at ... left and right vs middle. Seems to me I've seen precious little of Rex attacking the sidelines beyond that 0-7 yard range. Could be situational and/or playcalling, obviously ... but am a little curious about it.

Anyone else have the same overall impression? Has Rex attacked the intermediate middle almost exclusively?


Om, I did some digging on this on ESPN's NFL player stats page and pulled out info on Grossman's passing based on the direction of the play. As you mentioned, a lot has to do with the system, scheme, how the receivers mesh into the system...etc.

I chose the 2010, 2007, and 2006 seasons because they constitute the body of Grossman's passing stats and are the only ones which have enough data for me to consider the stats significant-one break point I used was 100 attempts and a minimum of four games which restricted it to those threwe seasons.

Below are the stats for last season and you can see the distribution of pass attempts is pretty even regardless of the play direction. The other info is useful in terms of completion percentage, TDs, INTs, and, interestingly, his passer rating for passes done in each pareticular direction.


HTML:
PLAY DIRECTION	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	LNG	TD	INT	SACK	RATE

LEFT SIDELINE	9	27	85	33.3	3.15	13	0	2	0	12.1
LEFT SIDE	15	24	141	62.5	5.88	23	2	0	0	106.4
MIDDLE	        17	24	296	70.8	12.33	64	2	0	0	140.3
RIGHT SIDE	19	27	198	70.4	7.33	28	2	0	0	116
RIGHT SIDELINE	14	31	164	45.2	5.29	38	1	2	0	45.6

Here is the information for his 2007 season.


HTML:
PLAY DIRECTION     CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	LNG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT

LEFT SIDELINE	24	55	379	43.6	6.89	59	1	3	0	50.5
LEFT SIDE	13	26	138	50	5.31	25	1	2	0	46.6
MIDDLE	        14	22	181	63.6	8.23	36	0	0	0	89.4
RIGHT SIDE	26	39	335	66.7	8.59	52	0	1	0	82.7
RIGHT SIDELINE	45	83	378	54.2	4.55	39	2	1	0	69.3

Here is the same information for his 2006 season.

HTML:
PLAY DIRECTION	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	LNG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT

LEFT SIDELINE	55	101	535	54.5	5.3	31	5	3	0	73.7
LEFT SIDE	55	90	758	61.1	8.42	49	8	3	0	103.8
MIDDLE	        17	39	228	43.6	5.85	26	1	2	0	49.9
RIGHT SIDE	48	84	704	57.1	8.38	38	4	6	0	70.7
RIGHT SIDELINE	87	166	968	52.4	5.83	62	5	6	0	65

As you can see, some useful insights can also be seen regarding his effectiveness based on direction in the different settings-Chicago, Washington-as far as TDs and INTs and, one that was interesting to me, his QB Rating distrbution based on play direction.
 
Well, the sideline throws are the hardest to make, so I would imagine most QB's rating distributions look like that, outside of the top tier.
 
Damn, serv. :)

Have to digest that a bit before trying to build any theories/conclusions ... but I can't help but notice what appears to be a distinct statistical uptick in the middle sectors of the field?

Of course, that might simply apply to all NFL QB's. Care to do a league-wide study? ;)
 

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