A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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Thread: can't believe

  1. #1

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    Default can't believe

    this place is so quiet after a Skins victory....so I'll start

    Goods

    - first pre-season game...are you kidding me? very nice.

    - who knew?! the O looked pretty good against a good defense (though it played vanilla)

    - perhaps KS knows what he's doing afterall!

    - disciplined...few penalties (especially none of the dumber variety we had become accustomed to)

    - obviously more speed

    - O-line stretch was successful at times off the tackle....some decent run gains

    - though it was hard to follow pass protection on TV....the results were obvious. I caught a couple nice pick-ups on blitzes

    - liked all the RBs...as a PSU'er...I knew Royster was gonna be fine....that flowing motion of his is exactly how he ran for the Lions. Helu looked to be in learning mode...but he'll be a good one.....very nice speed. Hightower has a nice N/S heading once he gets in gear. made some nice pass bloack as well. What the heck...if everyone plays as now....who the heck to we keep at the RB position?

    - enjoyed watching a game where the RT wasn't a turnstile (or the center!!)

    - wideouts look so much better than the past. stallworth is a keeper...as is gaffney

    - good movement to the ball on defense....haven't seen that in a while

    - better pass rush pressure all night

    - we obviously are developing more depth

    - watch lb Fox....he made some nice plays and kept after the ball...thought he played good physical football

    - ok...ok...Rex executed pretty dang well....tonight

    - gomes looked speedy

    - tackling was much better than the past....don't think
    I gasped a "you gotta be xxxxin me" all night

    - no major injuries!


    Bads

    - only scored 1 TD after marching up and down the field all night; need better running game in RZ and better execution with fades to the corner. Moss play was well executed

    - we need our starting safeties back...I think our CBs are gonna be burned this season

    - Gano was great kicking off...but what's the point? just drop the kick off altogether if the league is basically eliminating that as a play

    - not sure on D yet since they haven't played together long enough. thought there were still too many long runs mixed in with nice gang tackling stops for no gainers

    - I still hate those formations Hazlett calls where one side of the o-line is basically uncovered. IT NEVER WORKS!!!!

    - Hankerson frankly looked pretty bad. he needs some serious coaching

    - no deep...even mid depth...passing game. that will haunt us as teams start edging up in the box. let's hope it's just a pre-season gameplan....learning curve/familiarity thing


    more to come.
    Last edited by fansince62; 08-13-11 at 01:23 AM.
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    Nice observations.

    I get to watch it tomorrow. Will have feedback then.
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    I suspect the FO is going to have come difficult decisions to make. A lot of the kids looked better than expected, while still not being up to the level of their vet counterparts. So do you keep the youngin's like Austin and Paul, or go with the proven commodity like Stallworth. Based on last night alone, you have to like Stallworth a little more, being more polished. But the kids did look good (Hank aside - he better get his **** together quick).
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    I was impressed with overall hustle on both sides. Our guys seemed more physical than the Steelers.

    The lack of penalties from both teams impressed me. It was a very well played game.

    I think this offense will be more of a methodical down the field march versus a big play offense. Hard to get a feel from preseason, since many plays are scripted to see how a particular person or unit will respond.

    Was not impressed with our redzone offense. This needs some work.

    Our D flowed to the ball nicely. There were times someone would be out of position, but you can expect this in first game. Kerrigan is going to be a good player for us. Bowen and Cofield are really going to help Fletcher and the other LB's.

    I hate the kickoff from the 35 yrd line. Heard someone say only reason this play is still in the game is you can still do an onside kick. I'm not sure I want Banks trying to run the ball from 7-8 yards deep on regular basis. Worked fine last night, but see too much potential for disaster.

    Really liked our RB's last night. Torrain was the loser just because didn't get a chance to play last night.

    We have some good WR's. Kelly can pack his bags. Stallworth seems to be playing with a chip on his shoulder. Hankerson may be a project. Hope is he isn't another 50/50.

    I liked the decision to play starters for a half. Gets everyone extra work and helps build the chemistry for a team with many new faces.

    Did Shane Graham lose his chance to make the team last night? That 29 yrd FG try was one of worse I've seen.
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    Fansince, you have several good observations there. The thing that stood out to me most was that the team seemed focused-more of a sense of everyone being on the same page. Given the shortened TC and new faces I was pleasantly surprised to see this in the first preseason game.

    RB looks like it could be a strength area for us-good talent combined with Mike Shanahan's reputation for churning out good RBs bodes well-and as you mentioned, what looks like (gulp!) almost too much depth. Wow. WR depth looks good also-another pleasant surprise.

    My first area of concern was our secondary. Big fast skilled WRs look like they could present problems here. I would like to see better than I saw in this game. First preseason game, of course, so I'll give it some time.

    Grossman didn't surprise me at all. His reputation as an interception machine is partially accurate but also partially exaggerated. He has gone through stretches of relatively turnover free play. Time, of course, will tell-but he does know the system and the routes and looked to be fairly comfortable running the offense. Beck's got his work cut out for him unseating Rexy, I think, unless RG goes on an interception spree-say, three or more in one game.

    (fansince, I know aesthetically he isn't "pretty" but he did get the job done )

    You are right, I think, in the problem we will encounter with opposing Ds stacking-the-box due to the lack of a deep passing game. Something to watch for here.

    O-line protected Rexy well (yay!). Defense looked decent. Good speed on both. We have talent to work with.

    Brandon Banks is making the idea of cutting him not quite as automatic as perhaps a week ago-if he pulls off a couple more 50-60 yard returns he'll get a roster spot.

    Kickoffs. This is going to be one of the most controversial areas NFL wide this season, I think. Comments on other team fan boards are pretty much in line with what people are saying here. Touchbacks everywhere-no drama. The NFL is probably gonna catch a lot of flack here.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riggins44 View Post

    I think this offense will be more of a methodical down the field march versus a big play offense. Hard to get a feel from preseason, since many plays are scripted to see how a particular person or unit will respond.
    and this concerns me. with some exceptions...the best teams in the league feature high powered, vertical passing games. I don't see how we stay in games with a methodical offense if we fall behind early.

    again...first preseason game. a lot has not been unwrapped yet.
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    Very nice summary fan...that's pretty much how I saw things as well. And I'll echo something serv alluded to (with the obvious 'it's the pre-season' caveat) - they looked very comfortable and smooth out there. I didn't see confusion, miscommunication, players getting set late, miscues. I just saw execution and competence. I like seeing that - a lot.

    We could be a better team than anyone anticipates. I'm not talking craziness here. I'm talking a .500 football team, vs 3-4 wins as many believe we'll have. I also think Clemens did a pretty serviceable job. I not only think Beck isn't the starter, he may not be #2 when the dust settles. We'll see.

    Looks like the Shanahan magic when it comes to finding blue chip running backs continues. We are going to have a very good running back with great depth. And you're right - I could see Hankerson being a PS guy right now. He's got an uphill battle to make this team if he continues to have games like he had last night and they base the decision (as they ought to) on demonstrated ability and performance.
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    Let us not forget how we started the preseason one year ago - on a high note with the team looking very good in the opener. I'm hoping last night's game is not a repeat of history, but a precursor of good things to come.

    I'm still holding to my prediction of John Beck not being on the roster by the end of this season.

    What does Rex need to do to convince the naysayers? He started the final three games of 2010 and proceeded to do very well. Last night, he tosses for 207 yards in just one half against a very good defense. Four games does not equal a career, but it is a good sign thus far.

    Rocky McIntosh played well and his dedication to atteding player organized workouts seems to be paying off.

    The corners need to play much better. Both were burned on long pass attempts that were over thrown. They can't rely on the "generosity" of opposing QBs each game.

    Roy Helu is going to be an exciting player in this system. Evan Royster will provide the five to seven yards that are needed on a sustained drive. DeJon Gomes will make plays when he is on the field. Expect his playing time to increase with each game. Markus White is quickly proving that he was a steal in the seventh round.

    Graham Gano has no worries.

    Brandon Banks, despite his flaws, is a player that you can't ignore.

    On to game two of the preseason.
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    Agreed reading much into pre-season games is pretty risky. On the other hand, who'd we rack up all those points and praise on last year in the pre-season opener? Buffalo - right? So I'd say I take more confidence looking solid against a team like the Steelers. Still - I.T.P. and we should not forget that. Agreed also that the corners are not a current strength. I hate to say that we may miss Carlos Rogers (warts and all), but I think we may before the season is over.
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    It was nice to see the team at least look prepared to play. Considering the super-short offseason and the super-high turnover on the Redskins that's not necessarily a minor thing.

    Other than that, it's tough to gauge much.
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    the difference is last year we were playing the Buffalo Bills, this year we were playing the Pittsburgh Steelers, a team the Redskins consistently struggle with in preseason and regular season due to their physical style of play.

    the Steelers did not vary their offense and show as many different looks as Washington and I think it was obvious that Shanahan wanted to get this season off on a positive note. Washington coaches and players simply wanted this game more than Tomlin and Pittsburgh.

    that said, no one was going to let the Redskins run the ball down their throats. the Redskins OL is stronger this year and the substitution of Rabach and Derrick Dockery from the starting lineup Game 1 last year showed. So, did the return to health of Jammal Brown.

    Moss is a perfect fit for this offense. I agree that Stallworth and Gaffney right now are heads and tails above the other receivers on the roster. So much for getting younger at the top at WR. Looks like mostly veterans in 2011.

    Hankerson will make the roster. He has talent but he isn't ready to be a major contributor. He's not focused on making the catch because he doesn't seem to know the plays and where he is supposed to be.

    Austin looked pretty good.

    Royster was a nice surprise. He got a lot of work last night. I remember Mel Kiper saying that Royster was a nice college player who didn't have the skills to make it at the next level. He doesn't have breakaway speed but seems to be a solid, serviceable between the tackles runner.

    Hightower like Moss is a good fit for the offense and looks to be ready to step into a starting role here with the Redskins. We will have to see what Torain does the next 3 games when he returns to practice, but Tim is so well-rounded as a runner, receiver and pass blocker I don't see Ryan beating him out.

    We need to watch Davis and Paulsen at TE. Chris Cooley's injury appears more serious than we thought a couple of weeks ago and it may be that his 2011 season will be hampered by the knee. Davis made one nice catch and had a block on the outside where he stood up one of the Steelers linebackers. But he also dropped two balls that Rex had right on target. Paulsen showed decent hands on a reception to the outside.

    On defense, the front seven is going to be a lot better, and why not?

    It's a totally different unit. Other than Adam Carriker, the DL is full of new players. Nice mix with no performers over 30. Cofield is big enough at 315-318 to play NT.

    Fox could very well beat out Rocky to play ILB next to Fletcher in this defense. Fox is 6'3 and 235 (Rocky is 232) but Fox knows this defense from his time in Pittsburgh and appears to be a solid tackler. Rocky was caught out of position a number of times.

    Atogwe will be back next week and he is needed in the secondary. The safeties looked lost in coverage at times last night without him and Landry on the field.

    Unfortunately, it appears Landry may not have much of a 2011 season. That achilles may be a recurring injury that requires surgery.

    Gomes was placed in Landry's spot, being used close to the line in run support and being used on passing downs to rush the qb and he was pretty effective for an unheralded rookie #5 pick that has had limited reps. His college experience at LB shows. He is very physical player and if Landry misses time, the Redskins need someone else that has that kind of pop to put in the lineup.

    Reed will probably end up starting there if Landry is out, but Gomes looks to be a keeper.

    Chris Horton and Kareem Moore could have trouble making this roster. Moore, like Kelly, has been unable to stay healthy during his NFL career and the talent level around him has improved noticeably since 2008.

    And what about Rex Grossman?

    He looked like an NFL quarterback. It's no secret to be successful he has to be a system quarterback who plays under control.

    Last night, he got good protection from his OL and Tim Hightower and the running game showed enough to keep the Steelers off balance.

    Grossman may not have Manning's arm but he is able to get the ball to guys like Moss and Stallworth in stride for RAC and that heped move the chains.

    He had a 'Rex' moment near the goal line where he almost threw a pick 6 to one of the Steelers' linebackers, but other than that played solidly.

    To be fair to Beck we need to see him get a half to show what he can do, but it is hard to believe that Beck is going to out perform what we saw from Rex last night.

    Rex looked comfortable and was a step ahead of everyone else in his knowledge of what the coaches were trying to execute in this system.

    I think he will be the starter against the Giants in the opener in September.

    Clemens is a serviceable backup quarterback and with teams now set to carry 3 quarterbacks on the roster on game day, Shahanan was smart in a year where Washington didn't draft a young quarterback to bring in a veteran as the #3 for depth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post

    What does Rex need to do to convince the naysayers? He started the final three games of 2010 and proceeded to do very well. Last night, he tosses for 207 yards in just one half against a very good defense. Four games does not equal a career, but it is a good sign thus far.
    well..since you asked...I look at it this way

    1) His whole career has been marked by inconsistency. I do not believe that is going to change.

    2) lest you forget...he almost threw a pick down by the goal-line last night. on the replay you could see he was locked on the receiver from start to finish.

    3) he has little to no mobility. once defenses gear up and start applying real pressure...that will be a liability. this is one of the reasons the Shanahans are looking at Beck...this is supposed t be one of Beck's relative advantages.

    4) RG's advantage is time in the offense. Imagine how good the offense might be with a top flight QB who executes as well!

    5) I think we have a lesser deep game with RG...advantage other team. possible disadvantage running game depending on how play action game evolves.

    6) he does fumble when hit.

    so...the debate isn't about who's better...simply who is less damaging...IMO. and that one is not very satisfying.
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    Be honest though Al - Grossman could throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs, and no picks, and you'd still say 'but that's not the usual Rex'. I'm not saying that's entirely unfair - until Grossman shows he can be above-average and not make mistakes game in and game out, he deserves the skepticism. But you're not exactly open to believing either. QBs can learn. They can get better. They are, to a certain extent, products of what surrounds them and the environment they play in - to include the impact of coaching.

    Grossman could be much better than you have, or ever will, give him credit for.
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    Wasn't Rex kinda known for, "**** it, I'm throwing deep!" when in Chi? I noticed many more crossing patterns than go routes last night, but Rex can wing it with the best of them. Kyle's offense may be more conducive to the horizontal game, not really an issue with Rex, imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Be honest though Al - Grossman could throw for 300 yards, 4 TDs, and no picks, and you'd still say 'but that's not the usual Rex'. I'm not saying that's entirely unfair - until Grossman shows he can be above-average and not make mistakes game in and game out, he deserves the skepticism. But you're not exactly open to believing either. QBs can learn. They can get better. They are, to a certain extent, products of what surrounds them and the environment they play in - to include the impact of coaching.

    Grossman could be much better than you have, or ever will, give him credit for.

    I gave him props in my write-up. I just know instinctively he's not the guy. think about it. Manning, Vick, Brady, Romo, Rothelsburger (played one series last night), Freeman, Ryan, Rogers...who knows among the rooks....IMMEDIATE advantage other team. that's just the way it is. RG does some serviceable things....but when you play the best/better teams...IMO....his weaknesses become glaring vulnerabilities.

    let's not get carried away here: the Steelers did not play their starters for very long.

    I liked what I saw from the Skins mostly from the discipline and improved athleticism points-of-view...we finally have some tools to work with. but the long-run solution doesn't include rex grossman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Wasn't Rex kinda known for, "**** it, I'm throwing deep!" when in Chi? I noticed many more crossing patterns than go routes last night, but Rex can wing it with the best of them. Kyle's offense may be more conducive to the horizontal game, not really an issue with Rex, imo.
    Apparently



    What I like about Rex is his accuracy. He's got better accuracy than any Redskins QB in recent memory. Seeing him hit guys in stride, or fitting it in there in tight spaces (like he did last night threading the needle to Fred Davis, who needs to learn to hold onto the ball), makes me all warm and gooshy inside. We haven't had that capability in a long while. I think his arm is plenty strong enough for the deep ball, whether that's a strength or not, I really don't have an opinion.
    Last edited by Boone; 08-13-11 at 11:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Wasn't Rex kinda known for, "**** it, I'm throwing deep!" when in Chi? I noticed many more crossing patterns than go routes last night, but Rex can wing it with the best of them. Kyle's offense may be more conducive to the horizontal game, not really an issue with Rex, imo.
    I got curious as to how accurate that impression might be. I'm looking at both ESPN and Pro Football Reference stat breakdowns on Grossman during his "signature" year in Chicago-2006 and out of a total of 480 passes attempted only 68 were over 20 yard attempts. He completed 25 of those, 9 were for TDs and, of course, 9 were INTs.

    Interestingly, he had only 3 INTs on the 27 he attempted over 30 yards-of course, 3 TDs with those as well. His average of 1 INT per game and 1 INT per TD seems pretty consistent career-wise regardless of situational splits.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    I dont get too excited about pre season, Steve spurrier cured me of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Wasn't Rex kinda known for, "**** it, I'm throwing deep!" when in Chi? I noticed many more crossing patterns than go routes last night, but Rex can wing it with the best of them. Kyle's offense may be more conducive to the horizontal game, not really an issue with Rex, imo.

    are you sure? cause and effect?

    Kyle went deep lots with McNugget. Not so with RG. Who is adapting to whom?

    RG is not known for superior arm strength.

    That CHicago team won because of strong defense, a strong running game and strong special teams. RG had some good passing games...and as many screw-up games if you recall.
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    there's a reason NOBODY wanted RG while he was a FA. he's a good stop gap sorta guy. An outstanding back-up. not someone you hang playoff/SB hopes on.

    we will be looking next year...and thinking about it soon as Vick & Brady put 25-30+ on us and we're playing catch-up trying to ding it with 5-25 yrd passes. will that even work against assomoi, cromarty and samuels?
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