anyone else feel like they're watching a preseason game?

Frankly, I'm really feeling an urge to give Shanahan props for benching McNabb-I honestly don't think McNabb could-or would-have been able to bring the team back the way Grossman did. Granted, what we saw today was not something that could be expected as a normal output with Grossman at QB, but I'm finding myself more and more harboring the opinion that Reid pulled a really clever swindle on the Redskins.

servumtuum said:

Frankly, I'm really feeling an urge to give Shanahan props for benching McNabb-I honestly don't think McNabb could-or would-have been able to bring the team back the way Grossman did. Granted, what we saw today was not something that could be expected as a normal output with Grossman at QB, but I'm finding myself more and more harboring the opinion that Reid pulled a really clever swindle on the Redskins.

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Yeah, I think once the league gets more tape on Rex and has time to prepare a little more, we won't see many, if any, more 4 TD games. But he does look better than Donny at this point.

And that really pisses me off.

That means we gave up two draft picks for a guy we may not have needed, when we got Rex in FA.

Again, I know one game is not a enough sample size, but if he continues his play for the most part, I think we have a backup, or even occasional starter next year.

Unfortunately, G., I'm not as "up" on Grossman as you seem to be. He's inconsistent as well but his inconsistency is more from game-to-game as opposed to during games, I think.

What I was actually trying to avoid coming out and saying is that we still do not have an answer at QB. Grossman has potential as a back-up and can put forth an effort like today-but not with the consistency needed in a starting QB. I hate to sound like a downer, which I'm really not, but Reid caught us at the right time.

A desperate mark is an easy mark.

That's the problem, Serv. It seems like we ALWAYS get caught at a desperate time. Jason Taylor ring a bell with anyone? I am trying to balance my frustration with the McNabb trade fiasco with my happiness that Rex played well today. The problem is exactly as you suggest: Rex isn't winning us a ton of games. We have many, many holes, some of which perhaps could have been plugged with those draft picks.

Seems like we have been saying that for a while now though, hasn't it.

servumtuum said:

Unfortunately, G., I'm not as "up" on Grossman as you seem to be. He's inconsistent as well but his inconsistency is more from game-to-game as opposed to during games, I think.

What I was actually trying to avoid coming out and saying is that we still do not have an answer at QB. Grossman has potential as a back-up and can put forth an effort like today-but not with the consistency needed in a starting QB. I hate to sound like a downer, which I'm really not, but Reid caught us at the right time.

A desperate mark is an easy mark.

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I don't disagree. But I also think it's fair to say that QBs perform differently for different coaches. Grossman got steadily worse every year in Chicago. His physical skills didn't change, just his performance. Something was going on there - bigtime - either in the coaching-QB dynamics, or in Grossman's confidence level. Anyone could see it as it happened.

I'm not saying I think it'll be different here. I have no idea. Certainly today was a big day for Rex. We no doubt got a good effort from him. Can he sustain that kind of play? No idea. But I do think he's got more talent than he's typically given credit for. That's fair and understandable given his prior record of implosion. But it doesn't mean, with a different mentor and coaching staff, and experience/age, that he couldn't turn into a solid QB. And he and Shanahan certainly seem to have some kind of special relationship. If today's play is any indicator, I hope they move in together!

I don't want to freak anyone out. But if Grossman closes out the season playing like he did today, we won't have a backup in him next season, he'll be the starter.

Boone, if he plays as well in the remaining two games as he did today, do you think we draft a QB? Or do we fill other holes and try to ride it out with Rex?

I don't know Goal. That's kind of what I'm getting at. I still suspect Grossman would be a QB kept to 'hold down the fort' while we got his eventual successor obtained in the draft ready. But we've seen before where a guy brought in as a temporary placeholder refuses to relinquish his spot. No matter how well Grossman does the rest of the way, I have to think we're looking for a young, coachable, talented QB in the draft. Just my gut feeling.

I also wondered aloud today just how anxious the Cowboys are to get Tony Romo back. Given the success Kitna is having overall, I have to believe there are some mixed feelings about handing Romo back the starter's spot...

I haven't kept up with the draft boards enough, though apparently I need to, but I get nervous when I hear people saying we will be in on the Luck sweepstakes, as I have a feeling that will involve trading up, and the loss of yet more draft picks. That, I don't like, unless we are positively, absolutely convinced that Luck is the answer for the next 15 years. Even then, given our history of talent evaluation, I'm nervous. Unless someone can convince me that Luck is that guy, I think I'm more comfortable filling as many holes as possible through the draft, possibly not including QB depending on how things fall in the draft. If Rex plays well the next two games, I get more and mote comfortable with that idea.

Boone said:

I don't disagree. But I also think it's fair to say that QBs perform differently for different coaches. Grossman got steadily worse every year in Chicago. His physical skills didn't change, just his performance. Something was going on there - bigtime - either in the coaching-QB dynamics, or in Grossman's confidence level. Anyone could see it as it happened.

I'm not saying I think it'll be different here. I have no idea. Certainly today was a big day for Rex. We no doubt got a good effort from him. Can he sustain that kind of play? No idea. But I do think he's got more talent than he's typically given credit for. That's fair and understandable given his prior record of implosion. But it doesn't mean, with a different mentor and coaching staff, and experience/age, that he couldn't turn into a solid QB.

I don't want to freak anyone out. But if Grossman closes out the season playing like he did today, we won't have a backup in him next season, he'll be the starter.

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I don't really disagree with what you're saying here either, Boone. You are, of course, right about coaches, systems, team atmosphere, on-field support making a big diference-an example?, our old buddy Jason Campbell in Oakland.

In fact, that hints at another thing I was getting at-Andy Reid is very good at meshing a system and a QB in such a way as to maximize what a QB is good at and minimizing what he's not good at-just look at what he has done with Vick. He did the same with McNabb. Unfortuneately, one of the difficulties I see is that due to years of neglect and poor personnel management of the balance of the offense, trying to mesh a QB into the Redskins is not an easy undertaking-Aaron Rodgers would have trouble here.

If Grossman were to continue playing the way he did today, I'd be one of the ones insisting he start-I'm just leery because, like you, I'm not sure what caused his performance decline and the QB situation here is precarious at best.

Goaldeje said:

Yeah, I think once the league gets more tape on Rex and has time to prepare a little more, we won't see many, if any, more 4 TD games. But he does look better than Donny at this point.

And that really pisses me off.

That means we gave up two draft picks for a guy we may not have needed, when we got Rex in FA.

Again, I know one game is not a enough sample size, but if he continues his play for the most part, I think we have a backup, or even occasional starter next year.

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Goalie...you're right about the draft picks. drives you nuts! but once we figured out the cost was too high for Bradford and Shanahan did not want to sign Campbell to a long-term deal...what were they to do? As I recall, we were all pretty happy about the DM signing.

fansince62 said:

Goalie...you're right about the draft picks. drives you nuts! but once we figured out the cost was too high for Bradford and Shanahan did not want to sign Campbell to a long-term deal...what were they to do? As I recall, we were all pretty happy about the DM signing.

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Yes, I was one of the ones very happy about the DM signing. Having said that, I am a bit disheartened to hear about Donnie's poor practice habits and other failings that I would have hoped our FO would have known about. If that means they did not due their due diligence, which there really is no way to ever know for sure, that is very disappointing, and perhaps a poor indicator for the future.

servumtuum said:

I don't really disagree with what you're saying here either, Boone. You are, of course, right about coaches, systems, team atmosphere, on-field support making a big diference-an example?, our old buddy Jason Campbell in Oakland.

In fact, that hints at another thing I was getting at-Andy Reid is very good at meshing a system and a QB in such a way as to maximize what a QB is good at and minimizing what he's not good at-just look at what he has done with Vick. He did the same with McNabb. Unfortuneately, one of the difficulties I see is that due to years of neglect and poor personnel management of the balance of the offense, trying to mesh a QB into the Redskins is not an easy undertaking-Aaron Rodgers would have trouble here.

If Grossman were to continue playing the way he did today, I'd be one of the ones insisting he start-I'm just leery because, like you, I'm not sure what caused his performance decline and the QB situation here is precarious at best.

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per posts elsewhere....

Grossman also flashed the limitations that will haunt him his entire NFL career

- he can't throw the long ball.....did you see how many times receivers had to stop and wait on under-thrown long balls? he doesn't have a cannon arm.

- he is what he is....he will throw picks and fumble. this is exactly what he did in Chicago. his mistakes today led to scores.

- his internal timer isn't always in synch with what is happening around him. holds on to the ball too long...which leads to a back end problem of giving deep secondary more time to close

- he sometimes can't see over the o-line. blocked pass or two today as well as overthrows because of this.

on the bright side

- in a tough week he maintained his composure

- he worked the different parts of the offense better than DM has to this point

- they did score 30 points....good in anyone's book

at this point...it's hard to figure out what Shanahan is doing. he's holding his cards.

fansince62 said:

if Grossman is the starting QB next season that will be tantamount to telling the rest of the league that the Skins have already given up on the playoffs before the season has even started.

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Well, that's only because he won't have a good team around him. He's already shown with the Bears that he can get to the Superbowl with a good team around him.

I was angry about the Mcnabb signing as I was pretty sure that even if he did play at his recent best, that we not only overpaid for him but we were showing that we were in fact not rebuilding but continuing on the same path. I got hammered by the pollyannas who suddenly forgot that Mcnabb has always been who he is, a guy who is just good enough on his best days to get beat in big games and a guy who aside from one season in his entore career, has been a journeyman at best. the fact that Reid got so much out of him speaks more to reids ability than Mcnabbs.

as for Rex, I think Boone is absolutely correct, and I will use one name that should make us all angry lol, TODD COLLINS, in any other system, barely a journeyman, in Al Saunders system, put up great numbers and looked like a probowler for a few games. he isnt the only one, Rich Gannon looked like hot garbage here, looked like a probowler playing for gruden.

QB more than any other spot is affected by the system, Shanny made the exact same mistake with Mcnabb that he made with AH, he looked at the surface and saw another Elway, Big, strong arm mobile, good feet in the pocket, he didnt look at the difference in the way Elway handled pressure or the accuracy differences.

It is my firm belief that if given a draft with a choice between a super athletic QB with poor intangibles and a good athletic QB with great intangibles, he would take the former. that scares me because we all know how Ryan leaf vs Peyton manning turned out.