Redskins Insider: Haynesworth may want to get out, but will he pay back money to do s

servumtuum said:

And then again there's the recent statement by Adam Schefter-being quoted everywhere from an unnamed "source"-that Haynesworth is expected to be the starting nose tackle. Of course the analysts have homed in on the phrase "nose tackle" and inferred from that an element of pressure being put on Big Al. It will be interesting to see how true that statement might be and how this all may play out.

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Schefter's source is Mike Shanahan so I'd trust his comments.Unless it's a smokescreen created by Shanahan himself.
I think one of the biggest things also is that Haynesworth has taken the money and ran.....he's not working out with the team and will only attend manditory events. That pisses Shanahan off to no end, especially when coach is trying to change the culture of this franchise from Me to Team.

I think if there is a trade partner that Shanahan can manipulate....he will and get rid of Haynesworth in the process.

I'm thinking Oakland.

Walking Deadman said:

I think if there is a trade partner that Shanahan can manipulate....he will and get rid of Haynesworth in the process.

I'm thinking Oakland.

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Well, Oakland seems like a plausible choice to me too, WD, Nnamdi Asomugha or the #8 pick would probably be too much to ask (!) but I'm wondering if we might be able to wrangle #39-especially if we packaged him with JC (that might require them to fork over a lower round pick or two or a 2nd or 3rd in 2011 but what the hell.).

I would think that we wouldn't release Haynesworth unless we got a pretty good deal. He came up in trade talk for a franchse QB after all. So unless we get a pretty good deal I think we will probably hold on to the big man.

If we think the Raiders are interested I am thinking no less than a 2nd round pick and some change. I wouldn't part with Haynesworth for just a 2nd round pick. 2nd round pick and O-Lineman... that might be more like it. I would probably do Haynesworth and Campbell for a 2nd and a 3rd but not sure we could get that.

kirbster said:

I've wondered the same thing, Alaskan. Besides, Shanny is on record that he wants to scheme around the skills that the players have. A bunch of mediots want to stir the pot and are assuming that AH wouldn't be any good in a traditional 3-4 (which may or may not be true), but who says we'll be running a traditional 3-4 anyway?

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I'm keep saying that Jay Ratliff is anything but an invisible space eater in the variation of 3-4 that Wade is running in Dallas. He is pretty darn disruptive in his own right and he is no Haynesworth.

I can't believe that our coaches can't sell Haynesworth on playing some NT, along with a mix of DT and DE. All they have to do is point to the last Pro Bowl. You had two pure 0 technique NTs, Casey Hampton and Vince Wilfork, You had Ngata a 6-3, 345 lb DT who plays both NT and DE. And you have Jay Ratliff, who also plays nose and DE and manages to get his share of tackles and sacks. The two gappers are getting more recognition these days

They can sell him on the reverse effect of last year, that Rak and Carter will be drawing more attention after what he did for them last season and they should actually make it easier for him to put up good numbers.

And they can sell him on the fact that even if some team with a 4-3 shows interest, that doesn't mean they will automatically let him play the 3 technique.

OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here. I never know what it means when people talk about 3 technique, 0 technique, etc. Is there a good place to go to learn more so I don't feel so dumb anymore? "Defensive Line for Dummies" or the like?

The gaps on either side of the center are the A gaps. The gaps between the guard and tackle are the B gaps. Outside the tackles are C through E gaps, but we'll concentrate on the first two.

A defensive lineman can do one of two things, he can line up (generally) over an offensive lineman, or he can line up in front of one of the gaps between offensive linemen.

If he is lining up directly over an O lineman, then he is responsible for controlling the gaps on either side of that lineman. His job is to drive into that lineman, maintain his position and then if the ball carrier comes into either one of those gaps on each side, slide into the gap and stuff the play. These guys can be called nose guards, nose tackles, 2 gappers. As you can imagine, a two gap DT must be bigger stronger, and extremely durable. You think of guys like Butz, Adams, Siragusa.

If he is responsible for a single gap, then his job is to prenetrate through that gap, get into the backfield and cause as much disruption there as possible. This requires more quickness and explosion at the snap. Think Sapp.

But it gets a little more complicated. Teams assign numbers to the OL, in fact, they can assign two numbers to each O lineman depending upon which shoulder (left or right) they want the D lineman to attack. They call these numbers 'techniques', although the term is a somewhat of a misnomer.

The 0 technique or position is right over the center's nose.
The 1 technique is lining up over the center's left or right shoulder (in the A gap).
The 2 technique is on the shoulder of the OG closest to the center, right shoulder for the left guard, left shoulder for the right guard, (in the A gap).
The 3 technique is the other shoulder (outside) of the OG, closest to the OT on each side (in the B gap).
The 4 technique is the OT's inside shoulder, closest to the center (in the B gap).
The 5 technique is the OT's outside shoulder (in the C gap).

Thus a 3 technique DT is a gap shooting tackle who specializes in the 'B' gap between the OG and the OT, with an alignment emphasis at the snap for being closer to the outside shoulder of the OG rather than closer to the OT. By lining up this way, he can shoot straight into the gap, or turn and trap the OG inside thus creating more of a lane for a blitzer.

At the same time, a nose tackle is typically asked to play the 0 technique, right over the center's nose, and control the gaps on each side of the center. At least one of the OGs will be doubling up on him each play, hoping that they can drive him the opposite way and crate a lane behind the driving guard, or lock on to him so that he can't slide into the other A gap.

Wow, thanks Terry! I'll take some time to digest that.

On another note, here's a new interview with AH and here's what he says about the Skins going to the 3-4:

“At first I was a little iffy to it because I’ve never played in the 3-4. I don’t have a clue to how it’s really played. But then I talked to him a little bit and he plans on just playing me in the middle a little bit and at end. I guess I’ll just move around and just wreak havoc; so as long as we’re doing that and I’m not just at one position, I’m fine, I’m fine with it.”

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http://www.backsportspage.com/beyon...d-the-athlete-albert-haynesworth-part-ii.html

Wasn't Haynesworth essentially a "space-eater" in the 4-3, anyway? To be sure, he was brought in to make plays on his own, but his whole upside is supposed to be the ability to attract double/triple-teams to help the players around him make plays, as well.

At any rate, the whole Shanahan v. Haynesworth story is mostly over-hyped bunk. Of course, if the brain trust can get value for him, I won't complain.

It's been quite an interesting offseason.

eh...we'll see. AH wants to accomplish things and the Skins may be his only option for at least another year. this is one of those "we really don't know what is going on" deals.

Terry said:

I can't believe that our coaches can't sell Haynesworth on playing some NT, along with a mix of DT and DE. All they have to do is point to the last Pro Bowl. You had two pure 0 technique NTs, Casey Hampton and Vince Wilfork, You had Ngata a 6-3, 345 lb DT who plays both NT and DE. And you have Jay Ratliff, who also plays nose and DE and manages to get his share of tackles and sacks. The two gappers are getting more recognition these days

They can sell him on the reverse effect of last year, that Rak and Carter will be drawing more attention after what he did for them last season and they should actually make it easier for him to put up good numbers.

And they can sell him on the fact that even if some team with a 4-3 shows interest, that doesn't mean they will automatically let him play the 3 technique.

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nt....for the most part...is hit and hold..correct? he has to play 2 gap. haynesworth wants the option to attack.

Terry--that's really, really helpful. I didn't know any of that before. If you had the time or the inclination, it'd be great to get more of those for other positions. Frankly, there's a ton about football that falls into the position level details/terminolgy that those of us who haven't played, coached or broken-down (certainly I'm one of those) could gain from that--

Again, don't know if that'd be something that you'd be interested in doing, but I think there's a bunch of us who'd get a lot out of it.

Anyway, back on the Haynesworth topic, is his biggest concern that if he moves to the 3-4 as a NT that he'll lose some of the big stat lines/media exposure because other players on the team will make the plays that he's creating by stuffing gaps, etc.? I wonder too if there are incentive clauses in his contract which become far harder to hit in the event he plays in the 3-4.

Terry, great post indeed. Voted to "Blog It" in BGOverdrive.

Count me in with Pravda as one of those guys who never played or coached the stuff so is not so position savvy as I might like to be.

Pravda said:

Anyway, back on the Haynesworth topic, is his biggest concern that if he moves to the 3-4 as a NT that he'll lose some of the big stat lines/media exposure because other players on the team will make the plays that he's creating by stuffing gaps, etc.?

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Well, as I noted, Wilfork, Ratliff, and Hampton made the Pro Bowl last year, and they are NTs. So it's not like those guys go unrecognized.

As for incentives, if the $21M check they just wrote to him isn't incentive enough, then I don't know what is.

Terry, thanks for the informative post you did-I learned some things I didn't know. Very helpful.

I came across an article in Back Sports Page's site that makes it sound like Big Al may not be all that uncomfortable in Shanahan's version of a 3-4 and his possible role in it.

Of course, with new coordinators come new changes in how the game is played and Haslett is no different. The type of defense Haslett employs is a 3-4 defense, a defense Haynesworth is not familiar with at all, yet he is open to it looks forward to playing it.

“At first I was a little iffy to it because I’ve never played in the 3-4. I don’t have a clue to how it’s really played. But then I talked to him a little bit and he plans on just playing me in the middle a little bit and at end. I guess I’ll just move around and just wreak havoc; so as long as we’re doing that and I’m not just at one position, I’m fine, I’m fine with it.”

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Article link.http://www.backsportspage.com/beyond-the-athlete/2010/4/9/beyond-the-athlete-albert-haynesworth-part-ii.html

What I infer from that is that Shanahan doesn't really want Al to leave because he (Shanny) believes that Al would be effective as a NT, that he (again Shanny) is all right with the idea of being flexible with how AH is used, and mostly is unhappy only with Big Al's sense of "independence" as far as the team-arranged training goes. The somewhat vague comment Shanahan has made referring to the idea that "any offer good enough might be considered" sounds to me to be simply a general and deliberately vague pre-explanation of what might be surprising trades-a form of pre-emptive CYA, which given the uncertainties of the off-season and upcoming draft, is understandable.

Of course, with new coordinators come new changes in how the game is played and Haslett is no different. The type of defense Haslett employs is a 3-4 defense, a defense Haynesworth is not familiar with at all, yet he is open to it looks forward to playing it.

“At first I was a little iffy to it because I’ve never played in the 3-4. I don’t have a clue to how it’s really played. But then I talked to him a little bit and he plans on just playing me in the middle a little bit and at end. I guess I’ll just move around and just wreak havoc; so as long as we’re doing that and I’m not just at one position, I’m fine, I’m fine with it.”

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OK, if you have no clue how it's really played AND you say you're open to it, wouldn't you want to show up for this weekends minicamp to learn the nuances? The minicamp is voluntary but why not volunteer to take a couple says away from your personal trainer and show up and learn HOW to play NT or whatever gap they want you in as a DE so you can best help the team? Supposedly, Al is joining JC in staying away this weekend. Campbell I can understand but Fatso is making a HUGE mistake if he doesn't show up.

Jimbo said:

OK, if you have no clue how it's really played AND you say you're open to it, wouldn't you want to show up for this weekends minicamp to learn the nuances? The minicamp is voluntary but why not volunteer to take a couple says away from your personal trainer and show up and learn HOW to play NT or whatever gap they want you in as a DE so you can best help the team? Supposedly, Al is joining JC in staying away this weekend. Campbell I can understand but Fatso is making a HUGE mistake if he doesn't show up.

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is it voluntary or not?

fansince62 said:

is it voluntary or not?

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Yes. But this is one of the reasons they need to renegotiate the collective bargaining agreement. These should not be voluntary. When you're paid millions of dollars, you should have to show up.

fansince62 said:

is it voluntary or not?

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I get what you're saying, and what a lot of others have said.

I sit on the other side of the fence, and am a little frustrated with Al. It is voluntary, he obviously does not have to show, but I don't see why he insists on making a statement. I manage a team of photographers and we hold voluntary training from time to time, and it tells me a lot about who shows up and who elects not to go.

I realize there is always something going on in people's lives, but the message sent, implicitly, is that they have something better to do, which makes me question their commitment.

I would imagine Shanahan is doing just that right now. Not a good place to be if you have a new coach.

This is becoming close to being a full time business. In the old days, players would have offseason jobs to support their income and didn't have time to train year round. Nowadays, guys make millions a year. Even UDFA's make three times as much as I do. There is really no good reason to NOT work at football all year. The new CBA should specify that a team has the right to your services from March 31 (or perhaps earlier) until your team's season ends. That's still WAY more vacation than I get per year. Until that time, we're gonna have to put up with all this stuff about guys working out on their own and taking this "voluntary" thing literally.

Right now, I don't have a problem with Haynesworth working with his own trainer but you have to be an idiot to not show up at a minicamp, an extra one granted by the league for a new HC, where things like offensive and defensive strategies can be installed.