A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Round 1

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  1. #81
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    Florida State

    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Some fans get busy living, some get busy dying. Meanwhile the Redskins keep putting something in our mouth and asking us to swallow what they give us

    Sorry - you started it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    Yep, not only had this team under Snyder been a loser but the reprehensible MANNER in which Snyder and Allen have gone about putting out losers while trying to retain their arrogant demeanor just makes it that much more difficult to swallow.
    What the hell are you guys talking about?!?!?!
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Bruce Allen at his press conferences acts as if the Redskins are a Super Bowl winning team that has simply hit a couple of pebbles along the way.

    Any hint of questions that involve missteps or bad performances makes Allen smile and simply move on, acting as if it is the reporters rather than the team that are the ones that have the problem.

    If you watch what and HOW these guys talk to us you can see they are scornful and dismissive of their own customers.

    Not too many businesses I know of operate in that manner.
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  3. #83

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    The purpose of a business is to maintain a client base. If clients leave, a business adapts or it fails. That's not an opinion.
    I was good with you up to this point, Henry. The NFL is not a standard business. If Mr and Mrs Business Owner open a place down the street from me, their own place, and they fail to do a good job with their client base then they will lose it. Because they are alone, their business goes under. Their client base is their only source of revenue.

    In the NFL, this just isn't true. If Dan does a bad job with the Redskins and us fans decide not to go to the games anymore, not to buy merch anymore, not to support the team anymore, he is fine. He is fine because there are 31 other clubs out there that are bound by contract to share their revenue with him. He is going to continue to make money. Perhaps not as much as he could have were the team successful but he will profit none the less.

    What the NFL has inadvertently created is a system that rewards all owners, regardless of effort.
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    hailus redskinus
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  4. #84
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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Only because of the league TV viewers.

    The erosion of revenue from receipts at FedEx and the spinoff of the Redskins Stores shows Snyder has tarnished the brand.

    Right now Snyder is being held up by the millions of dollars advertisers pay to reach fans watching New England, KC, Dallas, Houston, Green Bay, etc.
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  5. #85

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    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I was good with you up to this point, Henry. The NFL is not a standard business. If Mr and Mrs Business Owner open a place down the street from me, their own place, and they fail to do a good job with their client base then they will lose it. Because they are alone, their business goes under. Their client base is their only source of revenue.

    In the NFL, this just isn't true. If Dan does a bad job with the Redskins and us fans decide not to go to the games anymore, not to buy merch anymore, not to support the team anymore, he is fine. He is fine because there are 31 other clubs out there that are bound by contract to share their revenue with him. He is going to continue to make money. Perhaps not as much as he could have were the team successful but he will profit none the less.

    What the NFL has inadvertently created is a system that rewards all owners, regardless of effort.
    That's a good point - and a flawed one. You think 31 other NFL owners, many of them smaller market teams, are going to be okay with the kind of revenue the Redskins are currently generating for the long haul?

    I seriously doubt it.

    Sure - Snyder can weather 3 or 4 years of a half-filled stadium, declining swag sales, and most concerning, dwindling TV viewership. But if that becomes the norm - they'll find a way to replace him. At least that's what I hope for...
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  6. #86

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    I was good with you up to this point, Henry. The NFL is not a standard business. If Mr and Mrs Business Owner open a place down the street from me, their own place, and they fail to do a good job with their client base then they will lose it. Because they are alone, their business goes under. Their client base is their only source of revenue.

    In the NFL, this just isn't true. If Dan does a bad job with the Redskins and us fans decide not to go to the games anymore, not to buy merch anymore, not to support the team anymore, he is fine. He is fine because there are 31 other clubs out there that are bound by contract to share their revenue with him. He is going to continue to make money. Perhaps not as much as he could have were the team successful but he will profit none the less.

    What the NFL has inadvertently created is a system that rewards all owners, regardless of effort.
    We are still customers and the NFL is still offering a product.

    It's like the difference between voting for President vs. voting for the local School Board Member. Your vote carries more weight in the latter than the former, but in either case your vote still counts.

    And I suspect the NFL will care if one of it's biggest and most loyal markets craters.
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  7. #87
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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    The best one can do is act on their own judgment.

    Personally I have not purchased Redskins gear in a number of years. I don’t pay for the fewer games I now attend with friends on an odd lot basis.

    And if offered comps professionally I usually choose the Caps or Nats as my wife will go to those venues.
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  8. #88

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    You guys sound like this is something new, just this year. The Skins have been tanking for years and fans have been walking away for years. Snyder is still making money and NFL revenue goes up year over year - every year.

    How long has it been since the Skins had a season ticket waitlist?

    How long has it been since the stadium was full of Redskins fans rather than having a significant minority of opposition fans?

    With the exception exciting draft picks like Griffin and Haskins, how well has Redskins merch been selling for years?

    The revenue-sharing agreement isn't just for TV either. It includes merchandise and licensing, which means the Skins get a bit of every Cowboys, Eagles, or Patriots jerseys sold. Local revenue is what isn't shared and that includes corporate sponsors, concessions, parking, and ticket sales. Even here, the Skins aren't hurting because it doesn't matter what color the jersey the fans are wearing, their money is all green. One could argue that Snyder had a great day when the Pats came to town because all the NE fans were happy and happy fans spend money.

    The bottom line here is simple. The team is in DC, the single most transient place in the country. No matter what team is in town to play the Skins, there is a ready-made fan base to buy tickets, who want to see their team, not ours. Snyder might be embarrassed that FedEx is awash in a sea of blue, black, or green jerseys but he is embarrassed all the way to the bank.

    The Skins have one of the worse stadiums in the NFL, an abysmal record for the last 2 decades, and yet they are still one of the top 10 most valuable franchises in all of sport. Let that sink in.

    The NFL is NOT a normal business.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 10-18-19 at 09:01 AM.
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    hailus redskinus
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  9. #89
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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Again my point is to control what you can control.

    I am not sitting at the office or at home thinking up ways of trying to negate Snyder’s ability to make money on a large scale.

    But as with a political candidate I can make a choice who I support financially.

    I am willing to watch the tragi-comedy unfolding on network TV right now because that is part of my base package.

    I turn it on and then turn it off as I please.

    But I am not going to buy an authentic jersey for $399.

    I am not going to spend for two or three season tickets.

    Whatever other people do is their own business.
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  10. #90

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Yeah Neo, I got it.

    I guess I don't care about the revenue sharing because I'm pretty much fed up with the entire league, and I have been for a long time. The Redskins just make it easier to not follow it or buy anything. I don't care if they share revenue or not. As far as I'm concerned the NFL is putting out a bad product, and so are the Redskins. None of them get my money. They can share someone else's cash.

    Again, "you may as well watch because nobody cares" doesn't really work for me. I'm not watching because it's a crappy product, not to make some grand statement. If the powers that be finally stop and take notice, that's great.

    And just for kicks, that oh-so-crowded Patriots game had an attendance of 76,483. It was the highest attendance for a Redskin game this season. In 2008, the Redskins averaged 88,604 per home game. I do think that the difference is not nothing at this point. Do we think attendance is going to go up or down next year?
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  11. #91

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Oh, and no, the Redskins are not a gold standard sports franchise anymore in terms of profitability. According to Forbes, the Redskins are now 7th amongst NFL teams. Not in all of sport, just the NFL. The Dallas Cowboys, the team Synder has ogled and tried to match for decades, is now worth over $2 BILLION more than the Redskins. You don't think Snyder cares about that?

    https://www.forbes.com/teams/washing.../#61a4265474cf

    Here's more:

    Redskins owner Dan Snyder has been looking to move the team from their current stadium outside Washington, D.C. (FedEx Field is located in nearby Landover, Maryland) to within the city limits, preferably on the old RFK Stadium site in downtown Washington. The Redskins have been also looking into a title sponsor for a new stadium for several years. Naming rights to a new stadium could fetch more than $15 million a year. The team's brand equity has fallen, however, because the Redskins have been a train wreck on the football field for much of Snyder’s tenure. The team has missed the playoffs in 15 of the 20 seasons under Snyder’s leadership. In 2018, they owned the sixth-worst attendance numbers in the NFL, 27th out of 32 teams at 61,028 people per game. Washington’s average local TV rating, at 17.0 in 2018, has declined by more than 31% since 2012.
    So Snyder wants a new stadium, and he wants to sell naming rights and all that good stuff. How is going to go over in this town these days? Is anyone in DC going to help Snyder with a new stadium? I seriously doubt it at this point.

    All this may not matter as much as it would without revenue sharing, but if the team is bad enough, and the fans are sufficiently pissed off, it's still going to hurt.
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  12. #92
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    Florida State

    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post



    So Snyder wants a new stadium, and he wants to sell naming rights and all that good stuff. How is going to go over in this town these days? Is anyone in DC going to help Snyder with a new stadium? I seriously doubt it at this point.

    All this may not matter as much as it would without revenue sharing, but if the team is bad enough, and the fans are sufficiently pissed off, it's still going to hurt.
    Larry Hogan tried to help him get it at Oxon Hill Farms earlier this year, but the land swap fell through. Not sure why, but that would have kept the team in MD, just a stone's throw from both DC and VA.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  13. #93

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    You are right, Henry, I misspoke. The Skins are tied for 14th most valuable sports team in the world, so not in the top 10.

    World's Top 50 Most Valuable Sports Teams

    And yeah, I have no doubt it hurts Snyder that he is so far behind Jerry and the Cowboys. You can't argue that is due to on-field success though as the Cowboys are only marginally better than the Skins since the team Jimmy Johnson put together aged out.

    If you scroll down in the link you provided, you will see a break down of the total value of the club. The Cowboys advantage is in two areas: 1. the stadium and 2. the brand.

    The stadium difference speaks for itself and represents a difference of over $700 million in valuation. Snyder looks at that and figures that a new stadium in the District will overtake Jerry as soon as it opens. He totally blames the design of FedEx, outdated even before it opened if we are all honest, and he might even be right.

    The brand valuation is where the Skins have taken the biggest hit, as our brand is now shit. No other way to put it. The problem here is that compared to the Cowboys our brand has always been second best, even during the 80s when the Skins were winning Super Bowls while the Cowboys were collecting Top 10 draft picks. Even winning consistently didn't make us equal to the Americas Team brand put together by the Cowboys.

    All this is stuff that Snyder can continue to kid himself about. He may not like it but he can certainly explain it away.

    And for the record, I get what you, BD, and Boone are all saying. I'm even there myself. Two years ago I let go of NFL Sunday Ticket because the value just isn't there anymore, and I mean league-wide. The last game I attended was at RFK Stadium and the only reason I would even consider attending a game now is to meet other members of the BGO community. Marty was head coach the last time I spent money on any Skins branded merchandise.

    So I'm not throwing stones at your thoughts here other than to say this isn't new and so far hasn't garnered any level of success.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 10-18-19 at 11:33 AM.
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    hailus redskinus
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  14. #94

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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Well, I'm not saying Snyder's going to see the torches and pitchforks and suddenly change his ways. I'm just saying it's not nothing.

    But generally I agree with you. He's working on yet another plan to energize the base, I'm sure. I'm also sure I won't care. The end.
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  15. #95
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    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    The stadium difference speaks for itself and represents a difference of over $700 million in valuation. Snyder looks at that and figures that a new stadium in the District will overtake Jerry as soon as it opens. He totally blames the design of FedEx, outdated even before it opened if we are all honest, and he might even be right.
    I hope that Snyder is looking at a model like the stadium being built for the Raiders in Vegas than Jerryworld. A place with 60-65K seats more accurately reflects the demand.
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  16. #96
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    Florida State

    Default Re: If we think Haskins is the guy, then Gruden needs to go asap

    Quote Originally Posted by hail2skins View Post
    I hope that Snyder is looking at a model like the stadium being built for the Raiders in Vegas than Jerryworld. A place with 60-65K seats more accurately reflects the demand.
    The first rendering released was a 68k stadium, I believe.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

 

 

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