A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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  1. #1

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    B Critique the 2019 Roster

    While acknowledging, things can (and probably will) change slightly before the final 53 man roster is truly final, how are you feeling about the roster decisions made in the past 24 hours?

    I am somewhat heartened by a change I've noted, which addresses one of my biggest criticisms of this team and FO over the past decade. And that criticism has been that they are incredibly slow to move on from players who are not producing at the expected level.

    I could list a ton of examples of this. But the most glaring examples on the current roster, at least in terms of recent draft picks, are guys like Josh Doctson, Troy Apke, and Samaje Perine. Today, somewhat surprisingly, the Redskins emphatically moved on from 2 of the 3. While it didn't go far enough, the fact that the Redskins said 'enough!' and put sentimentality and draft history aside and cut those guys, is a big deal.

    Great teams make those kinds of decisions frequently and decisively. That's not been our track record and I was really glad to see it.

    As far as what I liked and didn't like today (aside from bucking that history)....

    I was excited to see us keep a few of our promising young WRs. I'd guessed and hoped we would keep a 7th (Kidsy) but that didn't happen. Overall, I'm excited that we rewarded effort and production, particularly in a guy like Steven Sims, and ignored conventional wisdom ('Cam Sims is a more talented WR').

    I really hate that we not only kept Colt McCoy, but kept him on the active roster. It's not necessary, and keeping him meant we couldn't keep a promising youngster. Possible they will still IR him, and that this was just a stall move. I hope so.

    I wanted to see us keep one of the young TEs. My choice would've been Holtz, but I'd have been okay if it'd been Flanagan or Parham for that matter. Possible one of these guys will make it to the practice squad.

    And I don't get the infatuation with Troy Apke. He's fast. And he plays teams. I get it. But those are literally the only 2 things he's competent at. It's not enough. Reaves showed enough promise to supplant Apke imho. That decision was one of the biggest head scratchers of the day.

    There were a couple of other defensive guys with promise - LBs Gary Johnson and BJ Blunt, and DL Ryan Bee and JoJo Wicker that I'd really liked to have retained (at least one of the four). But again - didn't happen. And obviously we can't keep everyone.

    I felt strongly that we have only 3 notably talented RBs. So I was glad to see we only kept those 3 guys.

    What was your all's take on today's roster decisions?
    Last edited by Boone; 08-31-19 at 10:09 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    There are some things to be excited about.
    The big one was Sims.
    The rest I believe was already determined.


    The addition of Landon Collins cannot be understated.
    He brings a confidence and skill set that we really needed.
    You even see guys like Apke, learning from some of his techniques in the run game.

    I am very impressed with Sweat. He may get more assists than actual sacks, but that will not go unnoticed.
    Payne looks ready to bust out already. The Dline looks solid.

    I am curious to see how our ILBs look.
    Bostic has been a pleasant surprise, for a guy who has been around the block a few times.
    I hope he keeps it up. Will he be receiving the plays from the sidelines, or Shawn Dion? Obviously, we need guys to stay healthy.

    Our secondary should improve this year. We have the people's corner!

    I'm excited about Harmon, McLaurin, and Guice. As you mentioned, it was great to see Steven Sims get rewarded for his performance.
    I think he will make a difference on teams, and with Quinn being injury prone, who knows. He may end up playing a bunch of games at slot.
    I am very pleased with what I saw from Haskins. Not sure when he gets his shot.


    Ok, the big problem I have is something we have been dealing with for a few years now.
    The left guard. Flowers will probably get destroyed. Until then, we have to run left. A lot.
    He is a liability in the pass game, and in runs away from his side. I would expect that the coaches will have him on a short leash.
    With Penn being no spring chicken either, not sure how long he will hold up.

    Jordan Reed being one hit away from retirement is obviously a big concern.

    Case Keenum's knack for the pick at the wrong time, is also looming in our minds.


    I am excited to see this team start to show a new identity.
    I think Jonathan Allen will be a team captain for us for many years.
    He is the type of player that can lead young guys to do the right thing. On and off the field.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Solitary Man View Post
    Our secondary should improve this year. We have the people's corner!
    Jimmy. ****ing. Moreland.

    Nice post brudda
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Some positive signs:

    1. Team has gotten younger and jettisoned vets like Zach Brown and Mason Foster that were replacement level players at this stage of their careers.

    2. Team has moved on from Gruden favorites Lauvao, Perine, Doctson, and others that seemed to do everything the team wanted in OTAs and scrimmages but never seemed to make a difference on the field during the NFL regular season.

    3. As the team has gotten younger, I see a hungrier bunch. Hungrier to stop the losing. In the past this team had too many veterans whose contacts were outsized given what they contributed on the field. As of right now the only player I can identify that is in that position is Josh Norman, who has been paid as a top 5 corner, but has rarely reached that level of sustained performance in 3 years here.

    With all of the younger DBs we have been drafting the past 2-3 years I fully expect this to be Norman's last year in Washington, something he himself alluded to in the offseason.

    Where are we still behind the best NFL organizations?

    Being quick and decisive in dealing with player issues that come up whether they are contract related, playing time related, attitude related, etc.

    Following on the Kirk Cousins fiasco, I was hoping that the team would move on from Trent Williams and trade him for future assets and get rid of the biggest distraction heading into 2019. At 31, Trent is more past than future in Washington. I think other top clubs like New England, Pittsburgh, KC would have dealt decisively with Trent rather than having this situation carry on for weeks.

    While I am glad the team cut Doctson and Perine the fact remains both players really shouldn't have been on the 2018 roster either.

    Their contributions last year were minimal, I think Perine was made inactive for 12 of the 16 games.

    So, from that perspective we are still slow in being willing to admit mistakes and move on from failed picks.

    Just this week, Belichick cut his 2018 #2 pick at CB. One year and an additional offseason was enough for him to judge that the player was not going to be able to help him win on the field.

    When asked about why he cut a #2 pick, Belichick responded: 'We are keeping 5 cornerbacks on the team for 2019 and he wasn't one of the top 5 at the position'.

    He refused to answer any other questions about the player.

    The Redskins meanwhile kept guys like Lauvao and Doctson that just underperformed each year and made believe everything would be better in time.

    It wasn't. As Brian Mitchell said, they and Perine, just can't play at this level.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Just to play Devil's advocate a little...

    Some of the reluctance to move on the past few years has been because the Skin's were a victim of circumstance to a degree too.

    I wonder if Perine would have been on the roster last year if Guice had not blown his ACL.
    And with Doctson I wonder if they were looking for a stable presence after losing Garcon and Jackson and Crowder over the years prior. I know we signed people like Richardson and Quick too, but honestly no WR was really blowing the doors off defenses so why not give Josh another year to prove himself.

    Plus, factor in the fact that our 2015 and 2016 drafts were... sub par (I'll go with that!) and I think we were just trying to look for potential somewhere on Offense.

    This year it's VERY different. We've had really strong drafts in the last couple of years and suddenly we have young talent all over the roster looking to assert themselves and win positions. The talent level has lifted across the board, and unfortunately players like Doctson and Perine couldn't stay afloat as the talent level got deeper.

    Apke I find a puzzling one. I think I'd have gone with Reaves, but I guess they like Apke's speed on Special Teams.

    Like you Bulldog, as I alluded to in another thread, I think this Youth movement is benefiting entirely from not wanting to lose. I think we're seeing the benefit to drafting a bunch of guys from big winning programs like Alabama. These guys are used to winning. Anything else is just foreign to them. I hope they see success this year before they get dragged down and used to losing.
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  6. #6

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    I believe if Trent Williams wasn't such a butthead , Wes Martin would be starting at LG and by mid season, our left side would be a headache for any opponent.

    I hope they are scouring the waiver wire/FA list for more depth on the Oline.

    Things that I'm looking forward to:

    Watching a healthy Guice in this offense. I worry if he'll get enough blocking to operate to his potential.

    Seeing these young wide outs in action. Finally getting to see Mclaurin,Harmon and Davis and maybe even a Trey Quinn sighting, who seems as elusive as Sasquatch when it comes to getting a good look at him on the field.

    The "I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all out of bubblegum" Group: The Redskins Defensive line. The main attraction for me.

    Want to see how Settle and Brantley have grown and fit into the rotation.

    Be interesting to see Cole Holcomb get on the field and see his speed in action.

    Lot's of interesting and exciting things to look at this year! Just hope that the injury yoke is off our neck .
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Donald Penn has been a top tackle in the run game for years, I would not worry we won’t be able to get AP and DG going.

    The question at LT is whether Penn has slowed down in the passing game in pass pro and whether Washington will end up having to sign a blocking TE to help there.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    Donald Penn has been a top tackle in the run game for years, I would not worry we won’t be able to get AP and DG going.

    The question at LT is whether Penn has slowed down in the passing game in pass pro and whether Washington will end up having to sign a blocking TE to help there.
    I agree but the bigger questions seems to be at left guard.

    Overall I like most of what the team has done this offseason and am cautiously optimistic, but I would be a ton more excited if the left side of the line was in decent shape. Hopefully Williams comes back...
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  9. #9

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Too many questions marks. The analysts know it. Only we homers ignore it! Again, it's how ours (talent, team buy-in to the offensive/defensive strategies, coaching including in-game adjustments, management flexibility with the roster, etc.., etc.) stack up against the theirs.

    1. Linebacking: can they cover in space? can they get to the QB? better than theirs?

    2. Secondary: a major leaker last season; better than theirs?

    3. O-line: a smoothly functioning unit? Strong pass-pro? Adequate depth? better than the d-lines they will face?

    4. TEs: good blockers? depth? btw....I saw a TE ranking dog and pony yesterday - Reed wasn't even ranked in the top twenty. There's a certain logic to it - how integral has he been to victory over the long haul?

    5. QBs: no one is top tier until proven otherwise. Frankly, one doesn't recover from last season's mess in one preseason.better than theirs?

    It should be obvious we are somewhere near the beginning/middle of a rebuild (assuming Brudan actually know what they are doing/have an actual plan - a big if). I hope they don't continue to believe we are just a couple players away. That thought process has achieved little in the way of tangible results.

    Let's hope the d-line creates and sustains a dominant identity - it sorta fell apart toward the end of last season. That dominance would at last be fnu to watch and sustain interest.
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Funny how not single mediot know-it-all, or a single know-it-all fan, has ever posted how much money they made betting on their predictions in Vegas every season.
    Ever.

    Why is that? Oh, that's right, because nobody ****ing knows.

    That's why I choose hope. Costs nothing. Keeps your mind free for shit that actually matters.
    Of course, it does take having enough sack to risk being wrong. And a strong enough mentality to not let it turn you into a...….well, better not.

    1-0 after Sunday boys!!!

    HTTR!
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    The predictions and how they are received-depend upon what fans expect and what the benchmarks are for the team in 2019.

    I am pleased in the direction the team has taken the past 2 years in clearing out under performing veterans and getting younger across the board.

    There were years in the past the Redskins were 5-11 or 6-10 but were one of the oldest teams in the league.

    THAT is a position of little hope for the future.

    I expect the Redskins to finish third in the East but with a younger, hungrier team that like Cleveland in 2018 is positioned for a major advance in 2020.

    Right now the Redskins don’t have any ‘name’ receivers and so the national guys say our WRs are garbage but that’s only because they are unproven.

    What they don’t know is we moved out driftwood like Doctson and brought in some talented and speedy players that over16 games will begin to emerge.

    I am fine with being ranked #25 to START the season as long as we are not rated #25 at the end of the season.
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  12. #12

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Funny how not single mediot know-it-all, or a single know-it-all fan, has ever posted how much money they made betting on their predictions in Vegas every season.
    Ever.

    Why is that? Oh, that's right, because nobody ****ing knows.

    That's why I choose hope. Costs nothing. Keeps your mind free for shit that actually matters.
    Of course, it does take having enough sack to risk being wrong. And a strong enough mentality to not let it turn you into a...….well, better not.

    1-0 after Sunday boys!!!

    HTTR!
    Yea....nobody made money betting on Belichick and the Pats over the last decade or so.

    There's a certain trenchant elan, WWI quality to your mindset!

    In the event...still luv ya! Personally, I mentally moved to Missouri a while ago.
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  13. #13

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    One thing about the wr corps.

    While mostly unproven, it's probably the most speed the Redskins have had in this unit in a long time.

    Whether that translates into production and wins, remains to be seen. But isn't team speed something we've all talked about at one time or another?

    Got to be something positive about that, right?
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  14. #14

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Yea....nobody made money betting on Belichick and the Pats over the last decade or so.

    There's a certain trenchant elan, WWI quality to your mindset!

    In the event...still luv ya! Personally, I mentally moved to Missouri a while ago.
    I'm absolutely certain you understood that I was talking about the Redskins, and the dire predictions of so many.
    That aside, I assume someone as sharp as yourself quadrupled your fortune betting on the Bradiots.

    No?
    Hmm. Why do you hate money?

    And, I'm sure a Missouri State of Mind is a comfortable "safe space" for those who choose to swim along with the frightened schools of other bait fish, in the direction of least resistance.
    Misery loving company, and all.

    But whenever the good that few expect will ever happen again, returns, I'll be waiting at the celebration table. And will definitely hold a seat for you, my friend.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    If Trent Williams comes into Redskins Park and the team doesn't re-do his contract it will be a good sign that the front office is no longer going to be considered a 'mark'.

    I would have traded him given his age at 31 and cumulative injury history much as Belichick does in New England.

    But this approach can work to as veterans see the Redskins believe in living up to contracts that are signed.

    IMO, even if Williams comes in you are going to see Penn in 2019 quite a bit. Not only would he be the swing tackle but without camp and game prep, these holdout players often come back and suffer a 'fitness' issue with hamstrings, calves, etc.

    Expect Williams to miss 3-4 games and be slowed in several others.

    You don't just come in at age 31 in September without simulating game conditions and play 16 games without issue.

    Adrian Peterson doing that off an ACL tear a number of years ago was a once in a decade kind of performance.

    Don't expect that here.
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  16. #16

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I'm absolutely certain you understood that I was talking about the Redskins, and the dire predictions of so many.
    That aside, I assume someone as sharp as yourself quadrupled your fortune betting on the Bradiots.

    No?
    Hmm. Why do you hate money?

    And, I'm sure a Missouri State of Mind is a comfortable "safe space" for those who choose to swim along with the frightened schools of other bait fish, in the direction of least resistance.
    Misery loving company, and all.

    But whenever the good that few expect will ever happen again, returns, I'll be waiting at the celebration table. And will definitely hold a seat for you, my friend.
    Why you rat bastage!

    I just can't find it in me to wrangle with you AX - and that's unusual for me!

    One day...we will share some beers or bourbon.

    Oh...I made more money betting on other things.

    Hope you're happier than a pig in (I had something funny here I know you'ld like but Boone might fry me for) by the end of the day this Sunday. Never pays to get on the bad side of the law!
    Last edited by fansince62; 09-05-19 at 11:37 AM.
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  17. #17

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    Default Re: Critique the 2019 Roster

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Why you rat bastage!

    I just can't find it in me to wrangle with you AX - and that's unusual for me!

    One day...we will share some beers or bourbon.

    Oh...I made more money betting on other things.

    Hope you're happier than a pig in (I had something funny here I know you'ld like but Boone might fry me for) by the end of the day this Sunday. Never pays to get on the bad side of the law!
    Ha! I used your love for me as a weapon against you!

    Indeed, one day we must share some beer, AND bourbon!

    Figured you for a guy smart enough to bet on things less unpredictable than football.

    And yes, beware the long arm of the law.

    Edit: I will be happier than a sissy with a **** ** *** *****, when our boys whup the iggles on Sunday!
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