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  1. #1

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    B QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)



    It seems inevitable that the Redskins will select a young QB in the 2019 draft. Alex Smith's future hangs by a thread. The only certainty is that he will not suit up in 2019. That leaves the Skins with an unproven and injury prone Colt McCoy, and...well...some other guys. With Jay Gruden's job on the line, and the Redskins fanbase mired in doom and gloom, drafting a youngster to lead the way in the future seems like an imperative.

    And don't believe the pundits. This is a great year to do so. While it's true that many of the marquee talents at QB may not be available in this draft, don't be mistaken. There is talent to be had. And in a rare scenario, most of the teams drafting ahead of the Washington Redskins in Round 1 are seemingly set at the most important position on the roster. The Redskins have two choices. Draft one of a handful of more highly touted stars with their first pick, or try and beat the Vegas odds by picking up that hidden gem in later rounds.

    Our 2nd pre-draft QB battle we pit two highly-regarded QBs who most draft experts see going anywhere from Round 2 to Round 4, West Virginia's Will Grier and NC State's Ryan Finley.


    Will Grier
    Height: 6' 1"
    Weight: 214 lbs
    Career Passing Yards (2.5 seasons): 8,556 (306 yds/game)
    Career Completion %: 65.7%
    Career Yards/Attempt: 9.1
    Career TDs: 81
    Career INTs: 23
    Career Rushing Yards: 148
    Career QB Rating: 165.2

    Highlight Reel:



    Conventional Wisdom: The first and most obvious thing to know about Grier? He lacks prototypical NFL QB size. That didn't stop Grier from being highly prolific at West Virginia and I don't think it's a major factor. If Grier were 6' 4" and 230 lbs, he might be a top 3 QB pick in 2019. Former Parade National HS Player of the Year in 2013. Grier is a smooth and accurate passer who mostly played out of the shotgun against man defenses during his college career. Starting out at Florida before red-shirting and moving to WVU, Grier steadily improved throughout his college career. Grier excels at short to mid range passes, and also showed an ability to throw to open spots downfield and make off the shoulder throws. He's got excellent pocket awareness, and good ability to evade the rush, showing accuracy on the run. Grier is sometimes criticized for poor accuracy when his footwork and mechanics break down, but this is true for most QBs. Grier is a very confident QB, a free lancer willing to take risks and attempt to fit the ball into tight windows. He showed at the college level that he is willing to release balls well before WRs have come out of breaks which bodes well for his NFL prospects. Grier played most frequently out of the shotgun and will have to demonstrate he can be effective under center. Grier was busted at Florida for use of a performance enhancing drug, but has since had no issues. Grier is known as a passionate and vocal locker room leader. Arm strength is only average.


    Ryan Finley
    Height: 6' 4"
    Weight: 210 lbs
    Career Passing Yards (3.5 seasons): 11,147 (243 yds/game)
    Career Completion %: 64.2%
    Career Yards/Attempt: 7.6
    Career TDs: 63
    Career INTs: 30
    Career Rushing Yards: 382
    Career QB Rating: 138.4

    Highlight Reel:



    Conventional Wisdom: Finley has good size and strength. While not possessing a rocket arm, he does put good zip on the ball. Accuracy is generally good but has not shown pinpoint ability and perfect ball placement. Footwork is generally slower than most QB prospects. Finley is one of the most experienced college QBs in this draft having played 46 games for Boise State and then NC State, and showed solid improvement each of the past 3 seasons. Some scouts question his ability to consistently read and react to defenses and he frequently threw to his first read or determined who he would throw to pre-snap. Had accuracy dropoffs frequently under pressure. Good pocket awareness but sometimes lacks athleticism and quick feet to escape. Solid throwing mechanics. Finley protects the football well and rarely makes glaring mental errors. Not a risk-taker. More game manager than gunslinger. Might be an ideal WCO QB and many liken him to Alex Smith.


    Fight!!


    You may already have guessed which of these guys I might prefer. As a former Marine, I believe that fortune favors the bold, and 'no guts, no glory'. The safe bet if these two are your option is to go with Finley. He will complete a ton of short passes, rarely throw a pick, and can be trusted not to lose a game for you. But then there's Grier - who absolutely has that Brett Favre gunslinger mentality. He believes he can make that throw into double-coverage, and he frequently will. He'll take off and create on the run. Sometimes it will work out and sometimes it won't. Grier is a fiery, demonstrative, passionate football player who teammates love. Finley is a solid, reliable, hardworking leader who players will respect.

    The more I watch and listen to Will Grier, the more I love him. While the Redskins have shown they can win with Vanilla under center, I want Chunky Monkey. When it comes to Grier and Finley, you probably couldn't find two QBs more different if you tried. One looks the part, a big, strong, careful QB who makes good decisions and won't cost you a game. The other is an over-achieving, gambling, gunslinger who is fearless, but who takes risk you might not always care for.

    For me - the Redskins could use a little spice and attitude. For that reason, give me Will Grier.


    ***Next Up: Jarrett Stidham vs. Tyree Jackson***



    WARNING: Readers of the QB Battle Threads should embrace predictions with caution, as the creators of this feature may be wrong, misguided, or generally way off base. The author retains the right to totally deny such predictions, delete embarrassing content, or otherwise reject responsibility for statements that prove to be stupid, errant, or humiliating.
    Last edited by Boone; 03-25-19 at 02:32 PM.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Grier.

    We need the Will, to win!
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Based on your description, I'd rather have Grier. I'd rather swing for the fences than pick another guy that's like Smith, McCoy, and now Kennum. Of course, Gruden seems to prefer the safe QB, so they are probably more likely to take a guy like Finley despite our wishes.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    I don't care who we pick as long as they want to be here to win, not for the pay check.
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    Why should I get out of bed at 4am just to watch us lose?

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Grier has a weak arm, no velocity, cant drive the ball downfield , very smart and plays well in his own limits but gets away with stuff in college that you dont get away with in the NFL reminds me of a lot of back ups in the nfl. smart weak arm guys like Rattay
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  6. #6

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    Grier has a weak arm, no velocity, cant drive the ball downfield , very smart and plays well in his own limits but gets away with stuff in college that you dont get away with in the NFL reminds me of a lot of back ups in the nfl. smart weak arm guys like Rattay
    Yeah - you make good points Ryman as arm strength is not his best selling point, although most scouts seem to think his poorer throws are because he doesn’t always set his feet or throws off base. Some snippets from some draft profiles on arm strength:

    Draft Network
    ‘Possesses the necessary arm strength and generates enough torque to fit the ball through intermediate windows and holes in the defense’

    ‘Has struggled to drive the ball down the field, particularly once he's forced off of his throwing platform. Opportunities to stand in tall or release a throw from a set base can generate ample power, zip and velocity.’

    ‘When his base is right, can drive the ball to targets short-to-intermediate. Doesn’t have the velocity or arm strength to test tight windows deep down the field. Makes throws to the far hash just fine when his feet are right. When throwing off his back foot, loses a lot on the ball and can get dangerous floating passes in concentrated areas. Aggressive passer who isn’t afraid despite not having an elite arm.’

    Walterfootball
    ‘Multiple team sources who have seen Grier in person say he has just average arm strength and has a hard time driving the ball when he can't set his feet. Some in the media are pushing Grier as a first-round pick, but that was dealt a devastating blow at the Senior Bowl when Grier's lack of arm was painfully obvious.’

    Sportsaldente
    ‘Many people think arm strength is just being able to throw the ball 80+ yards, but it also encompasses putting some power into some of the shorter throws to fit the ball in a tight window. Grier seems to struggle a little bit in this area.’

    NFLmocks
    ‘His arm strength isn’t anything special. When he’s allowed to set his feet he can attack down the field but his fastball loses a lot of its steam if forced to throw off-balance.’


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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Pass. Pun intended.

    Or draft your long-term backup this season in a later round - knowing this person will never be a 16 game starter.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    I don't see anything on either of these highlight reels that suggests either of these guys can throw a tight enough spiral needed in the NFL to thread the needle. Accuracy looked better for Grier, but both these guys are floaters like Grossman or Pennington.
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  9. #9

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Quote Originally Posted by Riggotoni View Post
    I don't see anything on either of these highlight reels that suggests either of these guys can throw a tight enough spiral needed in the NFL to thread the needle. Accuracy looked better for Grier, but both these guys are floaters like Grossman or Pennington.
    You may be right. But do you really believe arm strength alone determines NFL success? I don't. Pennington is a good example. Guy was a pretty good NFL QB for a number of years.
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Joe Montana was a weak armed QB. And, a 3rd round pick. End of the 3r round, at that.

    Anyone who wouldn't be happy with someone like a Montana?
    Didn't think so.

    3 QB's were selected ahead of Joe. And while Phil Simms did win a Super Bowl, and that game's MVP, Montana was better than all 3 combined.

    Is Grier, or any other QB in the draft the next Montana? Who the hell knows?
    GM's and talent evaluators were no better then, than they are now.

    It's still a crap shoot. Always has been.
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  11. #11

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Spent a lot of time looking at Easton Stick this morning (see my just posted 'QB Battle' thread).

    If there is a hidden gem in this draft, Stick is it. Kudos to Burgundy Burner for being the first person of note to focus on him. He'd be a steal anytime from the 5th round on.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Spent a lot of time looking at Easton Stick this morning (see my just posted 'QB Battle' thread).

    If there is a hidden gem in this draft, Stick is it. Kudos to Burgundy Burner for being the first person of note to focus on him. He'd be a steal anytime from the 5th round on.
    I guess I'm no person of note...you jerk!

    Actually, not sure if BB brought him up first or I did, but I looked at some of his stuff because the kid won National Championships. He will leave SDSU with more impressive career there than Wentz. The only reason it's not 3 titles for Stick, is because they brought Wentz back in after Stick went 8-0 in his absence due to a broken wrist in the season they won a title...Wentz's last season.

    The only rub I have on Stick is he runs a lot. Is he another QB who takes off at the sign of pressure, or are his run stats from design? I would wager a mix of both. Who knows?
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    welllll...if we do go with a QB with average arm strength...don't draft speedster wide-outs! That would be a frustrating thing to have to watch.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    welllll...if we do go with a QB with average arm strength...don't draft speedster wide-outs! That would be a frustrating thing to have to watch.
    No Sir. Timing and anticipation balances the scale.

    If present, of course.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    welllll...if we do go with a QB with average arm strength...don't draft speedster wide-outs! That would be a frustrating thing to have to watch.
    I don't think you have to worry about us filling up on speedster wide-outs, in an offense like Gruden's.
    You just need to be able to run 10 yard routes and such.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Cousins threw a lot of deep balls (and pretty effectively) to Desean Jackson for the brief time they were together. Gruden has shown he's willing to adjust his offense based on what the players running it do well. If last year isn't a testament to that, I don't know what is. We were a pound it up the gut team for the first time in his time here. Why? Because that's what AP and Alex Smith thrived at. We have a speedster on the roster - Paul Richardson. I suspect we'll add WR talent in this draft. Gruden can only work with the talent he's given. He's not buying the groceries. I guess my point is, it's not 'Gruden's offense', it's the talent he's had. Jordan Reed, Crowder, and CT have been our best offensive weapons during his time here. That's why the short/intermediate routes have been central. Give him some top downfield talent and a QB who can make those throws and I'll bet you'd see things open up in a major way.
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    Perhaps my barb was missed: if Grier is drafted, weaker arm and all, no point in drafting speedsters for the deep game! Stick with the short to mid game so the space an opposing defenses has to manage can be considerably compressed - and everything that implies!

    As for Gruden, I have no doubt he can call a variety of plays to accomommadate talent on hand. It's his decision-making during games and his suceptibility to being out-coached that prompts ocassional concern.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    well I mean the bengals got by with dalton but I dont want to get by, the jets did ok with pennington but he didnt win games either. cousins again is a guy who was just good enough to get you beat. I would rather keep building the team, put pieces in place and then go all in on a generational prosepct, but never again like we did to get rg3, that was just foolish
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    Default Re: QB Battle: Will Grier (West Virginia) vs. Ryan Finley (NC State)

    I don't follow college football enough to know if this has already been answered, but is Ryan Finley related to the guy who the stadium he plays in is named after ?
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