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Redskins fire general manager Scot McCloughan

Not sure we'll ever get the answers to that, burgold. Even if there is a definitive log of any efforts the team made, neither side is likely to ever make those details public.

What we do have going for us is that the media and fans will be only too happy to solemnly fill in the gaps for us. :)
 
I am most disappointed in how this was handled. Yes, McCloughan was let go by 2 other teams for drinking, but they didn't have a former player put it out there for the world to know. They handled it in a very professional manner. When Cooley said this there was no response of any kind from the team. They could killed the story there and continue working on an exit strategy where you don't kill a man's career and character.
The team is on solid legal ground, since they didn't say he was drinking. Just wrong to have someone else do it, which I don't think Cooley would have said this out of the blue.
I blame the PR dept and others in the organization for the social media attacks. Handle this in a more professional manner and it is not even a story. From Cooley's comments, to not letting McCloughan speak, to lame excuse for not being at combine we are making ourselves look bad.
 
I think that 'destroy' is too strong a term but...I absolutely think the team used Cooley to start the drip, drip, drip of rumor and innuendo to kick off the process of McCloughan's departure.
 
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I had a full day yesterday, much of it away from the internet, so this is news to me.

To say I am disappointed would be an understatement. I realize this statement maybe appear full of hyperbole but I am beginning to understand how Job felt when his faith was tested.
 
For anyone who didn't hear it, go to the 980 vault and listen to Al Gauldy's (sp) 6:00 open. I don't know how to post it.

Boone has been spot on this deal from day one.

To touch on some of the points from 980.
He and many local reporters have heard about the drinking for months. Didn't report because, no direct knowledge, and unethical regardless.
Drunk in the locker. Drunk in meetings. Drunk on the field.
Some unnamed players never saw it. One said he saw it all the time.
JLC said there was no trade demand from #8.
Not letting Allen & Co off scot free, no pun, but they know it's not the hysterical reporting coming from some.

On a personal opinion, I think Cooley acted completely on his own. He either was carrying out a grudge against McCloo, or he thought breaking a story many people already knew would maybe garner him national attention. Being the ultimate attention whore, seem completely logical. Can't bash the team for not shooting it down, as much as McCloo not shooting down. Defamation of character is some serious business. No way the team could stop him from defending himself. No way.

And the preemptive, "they're gonna use the drinking as an excuse to fire him someday" story by Wise ass? $100 says McCloo and/or his people are the source of that BS.

For anybody quick to accuse Allen of being a liar, remember this. If you've never had to deal with them, I can assure you that you will never meet someone as good at lying, and manipulating the truth, than an addict. They are masters at it. Don't think for a minute that McCloo and his people aren't capable of putting the team to shame when it comes to shady dealing and back stabbing.
 
First let me say, this particular drama series appears to originate from the actions of an alcoholic in his cup. Scot McCloughan appears to have taken his drink problems less seriously than he should have. After screaming at the top of my lungs in the Fall of 14 for Snyder to fly out to the Northwest to get this guy, as soon as I saw him appear in DC in an interview with a beer in his hand once we had hired him, I was concerned. I have mentioned that concern a couple of times. I remember Boone querying me, "What if Scot doesn't work out?" I thought to myself, if this guy cannot come in here and right this ship, we'll go down like the Titanic. Filled with hope of a new day, I thought the guy might not be as bad as stories from San Fran had suggested. After all, he built a damn fine team out there and had some success in Seattle, so it appeared. I sit here now wondering if this is indeed the dumpster fire many seem to believe...the single constant in this equation being Dan Snyder...or is this a smart move by the team to cut bait quickly before it really got out of hand?

After the season finale against the Gnats, I looked for Scot at the tunnel to greet the players as they left the field, as I saw all 12 games I had attended under his tenure here. He wasn't there...that was the another red flag. Being a recovered alcoholic, I look for inconsistencies with those who are either recovering, or still drinking...patterns say a lot. That was a broken pattern. The idea that our GM would greet players after the game was enlightening, I applauded Scot for such an act, but he was missing that night...a big night/big game.

Then Cooley came out with his story. Planted or not, it was no surprise to hear this. From day one to the night Scot missed his regular sideline greet after a game, I suspected the day would come, as usual whenever I see it I hope beyond hope it isn't true. It's simply heartbreaking to see anyone with talent wither away in favor of something so insidious, another drink after so many examples of the harm it does. The rumors began to swirl, the hope for a new day in Washington dwindling because the latest chapter in the 20 year saga of a Dan Snyder owned Redskins organization ended, and here we are.

One thing I want many of you to understand from my 30 years of experience dealing with alcoholics regularly, cutting him loose...no 2nd chances...is the best thing for Scot, and the best thing for this organization if the drinking is as bad as it appears. Under no uncertain terms should he be given another chance here after the body of evidence provided from years of his drinking that date back at least 10 years that we know of. The organization does him no justice by "trying to help"...firing him is the best help the Skins could give. So I applaud Snyder and Allen for cutting bait with this problem. It probably should have been done at the end of the season if there is truth to his drinking habits around the park.

At this point, the only faults I see from the Redskins are the risk involved in hiring him in the first place and the timing of firing him. It should not have been permitted to fester in the media, the FO should always be quick to the punch, not allowing these vultures to get the jump on them. It should have happened at the end of the season if what is being reported, has truth to it...and from experience, I have to give credence to the idea that his drinking was that bad from even my limited knowledge of the situation. And while the risk reward was great, I am not convinced there wasn't another guy out there we could have hired 2 years ago who would not have had some success.

However, I don't see that all is lost. We've eliminated a problem, most organizations are lauded for such decisions, except the Redskins in light of their history. We have acquired players to fill needed holes on our defense. We are proceeding through this free agency class like we have for the better part of the last 5 years, no dumb big splashes, acquiring young, mid range players that have contracts that aren't killers like the old vet contracts we used to give out. I would like to have seen a move for a DL like Dontari Poe, but he's still out there. this appears to be business as usual in that respect. Free agency is far from over.

Look, the Redskins organizations made mistakes in this saga, our front office looks like they have egg all over their face...again. I would like to have seen a few things happen over the course of the past 2 months that didn't, and it makes the decision makers look like the stereotype that has followed this team for the past 20 years, incompetent. But we'll have to wait and see. I'm not holding my breath...I'm not going to give up on the 2017 season, either.
 
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burgold said:
Looking only at the alcohol side of the equation, I guess my only question is "What did the Redskins try?"
I would have liked to see a leave of absence. I'd like to have seen other supports. Now, supposedly McCloughan has been to rehab and that didn't help, but when taking on a known risk like this what did they do to try to make sure it would work? Could they have done more? Should they have done more?
Click to expand...

I've wondered this too. It matters.
 
Henry said:
Understood Boone. I'm just saying that reporters aren't automatically wrong simply because they are saying something we don't like hearing. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the Redskins. We'll see.





I would like to address this line of thinking, though. The simple answer is: Why would Jerry Jones need to fire Jimmy Johnson? Stupid stuff like that happens ALL the time in the NFL. Allen may be This or he may be That, but his title and job description certainly wouldn't prevent him from firing a dude for something petty like Who Should Get The Credit.
Click to expand...

I think those are very valid points. Starting to sound like both story lines may be true. That McCloughan has serious alcohol issues that he has not dealt with and preclude him from holding down a steady gig, and the Redskins front office doesn't know how to manage people. What a mess.
 
Best post I've seen, anywhere, on the situation Elephant. Kudos :cheers:
 
Boone said:
I think those are very valid points. Starting to sound like both story lines may be true. That McCloughan has serious alcohol issues that he has not dealt with and preclude him from holding down a steady gig, and the Redskins front office doesn't know how to manage people. What a mess.
Click to expand...

I suspect this reflects the truth more closely than either of the polarized positions so popular. I have no problem whatsoever believing both scenarios; to wit, if Scot was drinking heavily, I can completely imagine resentment taking hold in the FO that he was still getting credit for the team's turnaround, and that kind of resentment tends to build and snowball.

You're last three words sum it up nicely. I'd add one more.

What a ****ing mess.
 
The other question you might ask yourself is why the Redskins felt the need to roll the dice on Scot McCloughan given his past issues which had cost him jobs in SF and Seattle?

McCloughan had talent but was also desperate for a job. He was willing to come here despite the general negative reaction this ownership and front office generates around the league.

So, the unhappy, uncomfortable answer may be that Scot, with his issues, was the BEST candidate Snyder/Allen could come up with.

Nobody who had Scot's level of talent AND didn't have the off the field issues was willing to come here if other teams were going to make them offers.

Whose fault is that? :)

When Jack Kent Cooke came east from California and took over active ownership of the Redskins, the team was able to bring in Bobby Beathard who was well-respected around the league and had been part of Super Bowl winners in KC and Miami.

He was a top hire and the Redskins were able to get him to come to a team that had an aging roster, few draft picks and a fan base that wanted to win right away.

Yet he came.

When you have a respected, successful sports owner you are able to pull guys like that to your organization.

When you are not, you have to go fishing in the barrel of retreads, guys past their prime, or ones that have issues.

If Snyder and Allen together are able to put together a Washington team that goes to the Super Bowl some day, it will be as big of a shock to me as the Patriots comeback from 25 points down to Atlanta in this year's title game.

It's just the way it is.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
The other question you might ask yourself is why the Redskins felt the need to roll the dice on Scot McCloughan given his past issues which had cost him jobs in SF and Seattle?

McCloughan had talent but was also desperate for a job. He was willing to come here despite the general negative reaction this ownership and front office generates around the league.

So, the unhappy, uncomfortable answer may be that Scot, with his issues, was the BEST candidate Snyder/Allen could come up with.

Nobody who had Scot's level of talent AND didn't have the off the field issues was willing to come here if other teams were going to make them offers.

Whose fault is that? :)
Click to expand...

Doesn't give warm fuzzy feeling about search for new GM
 
Maycock (his name is being floated) is intriguing in at least that he's done a ton of homework on the draft and the NFL draft has been pretty much his entire professional life for a number of years. The big question is how well could a professional-fan do?

It's an idea designed to be applauded and ridiculed simultaneously. I do think whoever is the new GM must be able to reassemble his own front office.
 
Elephant said:
First let me say, this particular drama series appears to originate from the actions of an alcoholic in his cup. Scot McCloughan appears to have taken his drink problems less seriously than he should have. After screaming at the top of my lungs in the Fall of 14 for Snyder to fly out to the Northwest to get this guy, as soon as I saw him appear in DC in an interview with a beer in his hand once we had hired him, I was concerned. I have mentioned that concern a couple of times. I remember Boone querying me, "What if Scot doesn't work out?" I thought to myself, if this guy cannot come in here and right this ship, we'll go down like the Titanic. Filled with hope of a new day, I thought the guy might not be as bad as stories from San Fran had suggested. After all, he built a damn fine team out there and had some success in Seattle, so it appeared. I sit here now wondering if this is indeed the dumpster fire many seem to believe...the single constant in this equation being Dan Snyder...or is this a smart move by the team to cut bait quickly before it really got out of hand?

After the season finale against the Gnats, I looked for Scot at the tunnel to greet the players as they left the field, as I saw all 12 games I had attended under his tenure here. He wasn't there...that was the another red flag. Being a recovered alcoholic, I look for inconsistencies with those who are either recovering, or still drinking...patterns say a lot. That was a broken pattern. The idea that our GM would greet players after the game was enlightening, I applauded Scot for such an act, but he was missing that night...a big night/big game.

Then Cooley came out with his story. Planted or not, it was no surprise to hear this. From day one to the night Scot missed his regular sideline greet after a game, I suspected the day would come, as usual whenever I see it I hope beyond hope it isn't true. It's simply heartbreaking to see anyone with talent wither away in favor of something so insidious, another drink after so many examples of the harm it does. The rumors began to swirl, the hope for a new day in Washington dwindling because the latest chapter in the 20 year saga of a Dan Snyder owned Redskins organization ended, and here we are.

One thing I want many of you to understand from my 30 years of experience dealing with alcoholics regularly, cutting him loose...no 2nd chances...is the best thing for Scot, and the best thing for this organization if the drinking is as bad as it appears. Under no uncertain terms should he be given another chance here after the body of evidence provided from years of his drinking that date back at least 10 years that we know of. The organization does him no justice by "trying to help"...firing him is the best help the Skins could give. So I applaud Snyder and Allen for cutting bait with this problem. It probably should have been done at the end of the season if there is truth to his drinking habits around the park.

At this point, the only faults I see from the Redskins are the risk involved in hiring him in the first place and the timing of firing him. It should not have been permitted to fester in the media, the FO should always be quick to the punch, not allowing these vultures to get the jump on them. It should have happened at the end of the season if what is being reported, has truth to it...and from experience, I have to give credence to the idea that his drinking was that bad from even my limited knowledge of the situation. And while the risk reward was great, I am not convinced there wasn't another guy out there we could have hired 2 years ago who would not have had some success.

However, I don't see that all is lost. We've eliminated a problem, most organizations are lauded for such decisions, except the Redskins in light of their history. We have acquired players to fill needed holes on our defense. We are proceeding through this free agency class like we have for the better part of the last 5 years, no dumb big splashes, acquiring young, mid range players that have contracts that aren't killers like the old vet contracts we used to give out. I would like to have seen a move for a DL like Dontari Poe, but he's still out there. this appears to be business as usual in that respect. Free agency is far from over.

Look, the Redskins organizations made mistakes in this saga, our front office looks like they have egg all over their face...again. I would like to have seen a few things happen over the course of the past 2 months that didn't, and it makes the decision makers look like the stereotype that has followed this team for the past 20 years, incompetent. But we'll have to wait and see. I'm not holding my breath...I'm not going to give up on the 2017 season, either.
Click to expand...

I think you and I might have been the most excited pair around this joint when news broke of his pickup, there was finally sound reason to hope. This latest development is like an actual shot to the gut and I just might be tapped out, especially when I hear tidbits like Cousins won't sign a long term deal as long as Allen is here. Say what you want about drinking etc, that fact is just devastating. This team is a cluster-F.
 
Well, if #8 really said it, then he can go **** himself with a rusty hammer.

Made the sumbitch a multi-millionaire last year. Ready to more than double that this year.

And apparently, unless there's a deal getting hammered out as we speak, NOBODY in the league thinks he's worth $24mil a year. If anyone in need of a QB thinks he is, they will be trying to cut a deal ASAP. No one would wait until next year when they might have to get in a bidding war for him.

So, we're the only ones that should pay what nobody else appears willing to pay?
 
Ax, he won't get in a bidding war next year. Soon as FA begins next year he signs immediately with SF. I am sure Kyle has told him see you in 2018. Kyle has 6 year deal so doesn't have to win right away.
 
Sure. No way more teams will be looking for a QB, right?

It would be beyond ignorant to wait on a deal that may never happen.

I'm not buying the Howdy Doody act.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
The other question you might ask yourself is why the Redskins felt the need to roll the dice on Scot McCloughan given his past issues which had cost him jobs in SF and Seattle?

McCloughan had talent but was also desperate for a job. He was willing to come here despite the general negative reaction this ownership and front office generates around the league.

So, the unhappy, uncomfortable answer may be that Scot, with his issues, was the BEST candidate Snyder/Allen could come up with.

Nobody who had Scot's level of talent AND didn't have the off the field issues was willing to come here if other teams were going to make them offers.

Whose fault is that? :)
Click to expand...

I think you're reaching...they had a relationship before Scot came here...they were paying his consultant fees for info on players the draft year prior to hiring him, that is more likely the case than your assertion no one else would come.
 
Sure, this was a two way train wreck. But I'm still going to post this from a few hours ago.

Jsteelz@jsteelznskins
Can't stress enough how unliked Bruce is. By players and other Front offices , seen as a joke. Lies to players all the time.
 
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