Wowsers, ok, gonna take this bit by bit...
We love to cite Joe Gibbs in a host of discussions, but here the plain fact remains that Gibbs had the Redskins in the Super Bowl in Year 2.
And that was without working in the era of free agency where he could just go out and get a pass rushing DE or a solid OT, etc.
All true... but don't take Gibbs years in a bubble. Look at the decade or more preceding his tenure. From 1971 all the way up through the George Allen years and the Jack PArdee years we had 1 losing season. Just 1. In 1980.
Gibbs was taking over a team with a good organisation and a winning culture.
This is NOT what Gruden inherited, He inherited a team that had what 5 winning seasons in 24 years or something. So to judge him after only a couple of years is premature. We all underestimate how BAD this franchise had become. To heal the patient first thing you've got to do is stop the blood loss, and that's what he and Scotty have done.
My point was that a team needs stability to recover. All we've done over the past 24 years is continuously rock the boat and then look shocked as we still take on water.
In my opinion that has to stop. If we change coaching staff AGAIN this year we're right back to square one again. This is not a team with a winning culture and expecting a coaching staff to come in and turn us into a Superbowl team in 2 years is crazy.
The coach and GM work in concert.
Gibbs and Beathard worked well together because there WAS friction. They had healthy disagreements and that lead to better decisions than if we were just listening to one voice.
The players WERE afraid they were going to be judged on their performances. We had rookies that came in and started right away, #5 and #6 draft picks just like New England does now.
In 1981, Gibbs' first year here we had Joe Jacoby (undrafted free agent), Russ Grimm (#3 draft pick) starting and Darryl Grant (#9 pick) and Dexter Manley (#5 pick) playing significant roles and advancing to being starters in 1982.
Agreed, but we really don't know what goes on behind the privacy of closed doors at Redskins park. Expecting Gru and Scotty to be the modern day Gibbs and Bearthard is wrong. They are different people. Scotty has a track record of putting together decent teams with time.
I also still don't really buy the fear excuse.
Playing for the Redskins back then was a matter of PRIDE. Just as it is for the Patriots today.
New players joining the Patriots are joining a professional team with a long term tradition of winning behind a stable coaching staff and an all-pro QB. You join that atmosphere the last thing you want to be is the weak link. It's also a team where you know coming in that you're not going to be the saviour of the franchise or the best player on the roster. They have those. If you're any player worth your salt you work your ass off to stay on that team and that's the difference.
You join the Redskins you're joining a team with 20+ years of futility, a losing culture and a horribly unstable management and coaching structure. Are you REALLY going to be giving your best for a team like that?
We need to BADLY change the culture here. And I think that's happening. I see players with much more pride these days. We're not their yet, we're not a perenially successful franchise yet, but I think these guys sense that they're on the cusp, that this team with this management etc is going somewhere.
And we haven't been that kind of team in a LOOOOOOOONG time.
I didn't see the same kind of mass confusion and lack of execution with those younger players getting their first taste of NFL action that we see here.
I could see and Chris Cooley mentioned this morning that on defense players in the Carolina game at times had no idea where to line up or what their responsibilities were.
Martrell Spaight, in his second year with the team, was repeatedly out of position - one one play raising his arms up to his shoulders in a shrug to Mason Foster indicating he had no idea what he was supposed to do on a certain play, etc.
That is NOT acceptable and I don't put all the blame on Spaight either.
Barry and the coaches are supposed to be teaching these players the scheme in the offseason and preseason. By Week 14 of the regular season Spaight should know where to go when a specific defense is called.
((((Some other good stuff!)))).
To me that looks like an entire unit that is not GETTING IT.
And the responsibility for that starts at the top.
That said you're ABSOLUTELY right here. This defense lacks talent. Sorely. But this defense also has more talent than is showing on the field.
It's sloppy and messy and undisciplined and that's a real problem.
Yes they make stop sometimes and make good plays. The telling stat to me is how we're something like bottom of the league in Yards conceded, but middle of the pack in points conceded.
This to me points to a Defense that has no real gameplan or structure, that blows coverages and assignments but sometimes of what little sheer talent we've got on that side of the ball, manages to pull off a crucial stop.
Case in point was the Kerrigan strip sack in Philly. I had no confidence that the defense could hold Philly out of the endzone, it only did so because of a good play by Kerrigan. But that was one play on the whole drive. They were marching almost unopposed till then.
We can't rely on what are almost fluke plays to hold our defense. That points per game stat is almost a fluke. It SHOULD be alot worse.
And responsibility for that lies with Barry in my mind.
Less so that with Scotty or Gru.
The reason? I see the plan and it's pretty much the same thing I'd do.
Years 1 & 2 - Shore up the Offense so we stay competitive and give Kirk time to prove himself and grow in the system. In the meantime do what we can to fill gaps in the Defense and hope that some of our young players step up and develop.
Years 3 & 4 - Use draft picks and FA to shore up the Defense while the Offense continues to mature. By year 4 the team should be pretty balanced and we can start to compete.
I think we just saw year 2, and the plan is on schedule.
It's too much to try and fix all problems all over the team at the same time. It's lke fixing a broken boat. If you start trying to plug the leaks and fix the engine at the same time all you're doing is diluting the effort and the boats still gonna sink. So the first thing you do is fix the holes and keep the boat afloat. Then you fix the engine. Now your chugging somewhere.
I don't thing Scotty or Gru expected our Defense to be earth-shatteringly good this year. But I do think they expected better than bottom of the league. The mistake was hiring Joe Barry who has taken admittedly sub par talent and made it in some instances worse.
Breeland has regressed. Some of that is on him, but you gotta out some blame on Barry for it too. He should have been in Bree's ears from day 1.
Smith and Cravens have obvious talent, but Barry doesn't seem to be getting the most out of them, and I worry that's a trend.
I think regardless how this year plays out Gruden is safe, but Barry is gone. If we're going to spend draft picks over the next two years on Defense then we need a Coach with a track record of developing talent on that side of the ball, and Barry isn't that man.
The NFL has changed over the years.
Gone are the days where quarterbacks go 4-5 years as starters before they 'get it'. No one has that long to show what they can do.
It may take that 4-5 years for a quarterback to ascend to being elite, but players have to show they can help a team win sooner rather than later.
Rookies at other positions, such as running back, linebacker and wide receiver are often asked to start right away in the NFL these days due to salary cap issues or injuries to key veterans.
Look at Michael Thomas in New Orleans. The Saints took him a round later than the Redskins took Doctson and he has filled the shoes of Marques Colston who left the Saints after last season.
Honestly I think this has been a combination of things, but fan and media pressure seems to be a big factor.
In an age of social media and High Def TV, there is alot of pressure to keep bums on seats in stadiums. In order to do that you have to have a saleable product, which generally means a competitive team to sell tickets.
Which in turn means that Teams jump at any chance they can to cheat the system and turn the team around as fast as possible.
And you're right, the salary cap has just exacerbated the problem as you have a limited window of time where your talent doesn't break the bank forcing you to make tough decisions.
As I posted in another thread, it really pisses me off when the Redskins say they are looking for safeties but none are available.
Well, the Giants found Landon Collins dropping out of the first round in 2015 and moved up in Round 2 to take a player that was rated a top 15 talent by the scouts pre-draft.
The Redskins were sitting there with a better second round pick to trade and allowed a fellow NFC East team to nab him.
Now, he looks like a 10 year starter for them with pro bowl ability.
We didn't have to suffer the last 2 years with Dashon Goldson and Donte Whitner, two has-beens playing that one safety spot.
Again, another case of a rookie that came in and played almost right away.
Yeah it's annoying, but I truly honestly believe that Defense was not on their radar this past year. The last two years have been all about the offense for the reasons mentioned above. We're rebuilding but still need to sell tickets and put bums on seats and keep the media as quiet as we can. Best way to do that if so show some offensive fireworks and stay competitive.
Mission accomplished.
In fact, it was probably accomplished a little too well because we've stayed in the playoff hunt well into the latter stages of the season, which to be honest I don't truly think the team was expecting in all honesty
Our agenda from day 1 was very different to the Giants. We wanted to put a good offense on the field to keep interest in the team high. The Giants were always going to be on a defensive spend. I think you'll see that script flip this off season. We're the Giants just a couple of years later.
They built an offense around Beckham, Cruz, Jennings and Manning that they figured could compete. Then built a Defense to complement it.
We've just done the offense (and done a better job as I think our O-line is way better and our receiver corps is stronger!). This year we start work on the defense.
I'm not ready to write off players like Fuller and Spaight just yet. I want to see them in year 2 under the tutelage of a GOOD DC. Look at the strides our O Line took under Callahan. I know we have pro-bowl talent that in Trent and Scherff now, but we'd also admit that we need better players at LG and C. But even so we've had one of the best O-Lines in the league!
We need someone on the defensive side that can do for or players on that side of the ball, what Callahan did for our O-line.
I give alot of credit to Gruden for turning this franchise around after the ShanaClan disaster.
I give Callahan a LOAD of credit for molding this O-Line.
I give Cavanaugh alot of credit for how far Kirk has come.
Indeed there's alot of credit to go around...
The offense usually looks slick and operational. Ok so it sometimes has bad days, every team does. But on the whole 95% of the time it looks good.
But as I said earlier, you're absolutely right that the Defense has floundered all year. It fails the eye test every week, it never gets better... just seems to either tread water or get worse. And what's worse is the players seem equally frustrated by it. It looks to me like a defense that's playing off natural talent and no scheme, like a bunch of players who have no idea what they're supposed to be doing or where they're supposed to be, so are just trying their best and winging it. (Maybe that's over exaggerating, but it looks terrible to my eye.)