The Sky Has Really, Really Fallen Thread

Chris 44 said:

Every recent game without exaggeration has been over by halftime. We all expect every team to score against us on their opening drive...its a given, we are that bad.

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It’s been posted somewhere, this is the worst 4-game stretch by any NFL team in over twenty years (I think they said Arizona was the last team to lose four straight by 21+ points back in 2002). It doesn’t just seem really bad, it is actually historically bad. I would say people should be fired, but I’m to the point where I think nothing will save us.

Faithful Fan said:

It’s been posted somewhere, This is the worst 4-game stretch by any NFL team in over twenty years (I think they said Arizona was the last team to lose four straight by 21+ points back in 2002). It doesn’t just seem really bad, it is actually historically bad. I would say people should be fired, but I’m to the point where I think nothing will save us.

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Yeah why fire whitt at this point.
Let him get us a top 3 draft pick then can his ass.

The worse thing that could happen at this point is the defense gets better and we win 6 or 7 games.

I'm wondering who will be the one to enter "Replace Whitt" in the Keys to Victory thread

heisenberg said:

Yeah why fire whitt at this point.
Let him get us a top 3 draft pick then can his ass.

The worse thing that could happen at this point is the defense gets better and we win 6 or 7 games.

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You misunderstand me. I do not think firing Whitt will help, but I do not think a high draft pick will help either. Nothing will help. How many coordinators have we fired? How many high draft picks have we had? It makes no difference. We always suck.

There is no hope. I was a fool for thinking otherwise last year. After over three decades of futility, you would think I would have learned to expect the worst with this stupid team by now.

Faithful Fan said:

You misunderstand me. I do not think firing Whitt will help, but I do not think a high draft pick will help either. Nothing will help.

How many coordinators have we fired?How many high draft picks have we had? It makes no difference. We always suck.

There is no hope. I was a fool for thinking otherwise last year. I really need to learn to expect the worst with this stupid team.

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You're probably right but the only thing at this point that will at least provide the illusion of hope is a high draft pick they can trade for multiple picks.

But i feel ya, my fandom is on life support and has been for a while, i didn't watch today's game or much of any of the last 3.

Just dont have the same fire i once did and there's no reason to stress out about the shit they're putting on the field right now.

There is no constructive way to evaluate the team as a whole for the balance of the season.

I have been watching this team since 1972 and was lucky enough to have some memory of that first Super Bowl at age 8 and I have never seen this many injuries in a season.

It’s become almost comical to think a team this decimated can compete at all even if the roster to start the season was top notch, which we knew it was not.

What this last sequence of games will provide is the opportunity for younger players like Burks and Owens, Lane and Amos to show they belong and what they can potentially do for us going forward.

Amos and Aho got hurt again but neither looks to be out for that long of a stretch. And Amos has done a lot already to show he is a keeper.

Teams like Detroit can poke fun at beating a decimated team but in the long run their quarterback is not clutch in the postseason and that will limit how far the Lions go.

Apparently there is still a Snyder Horcrux in the Ashburn facility that we've not been able to find...

heisenberg said:

But i feel ya, my fandom is on life support and has been for a while, i didn't watch today's game or much of any of the last 3.

Just dont have the same fire i once did and there's no reason to stress out about the shit they're putting on the field right now.

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I wish I could do that.

Now is the time for the team to experiment more and be more willing to put guys out there and see what they can do.

The course of the season essentially accelerates the roster evaluation and expected turnover we are going to see come January and thereafter.

Miller, Ertz, Wagner, Wylie, Lattimore, Jones, etc. - these guys are done here after the last whistle blows on Game 17.

A lot of the veterans on IR with Lattimore won’t be back either.

At the end of the day the house of cards just fell down earlier than expected.

Faithful Fan said:

It’s been posted somewhere, This is the worst 4-game stretch by any NFL team in over twenty years (I think they said Arizona was the last team to lose four straight by 21+ points back in 2002). It doesn’t just seem really bad, it is actually historically bad. I would say people should be fired, but I’m to the point where I think nothing will save us.

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??? That doesn't make intellectual sense though.

There isn't any magic here.

There can only be one at the end. So if you are not a team ready to win the Super Bowl, you may as well be a team at the bottom of the barrel and ready to progress forward. With Snyder, the TOP of the heap was so putrid and rotten, there truly was no hope.

With Harris, we honestly do have hope. Yes it sucks that it may take time for them to sort out who is good and who is bad, but I do think they will get there eventually.

My personal feeling: As long as we have these coaches (Kliff and Whitt and possibly DQ as well), we aren't going to go anywhere. The DQ part is "possible" as long as AP doesn't step in, which he may not. He may prefer to give DQ a chance, and if he fails at that chance, move on. Personally, I believe the HC hiring process was tainted for reasons I've talked about before, and won't go into now. I don't think DQ was the best option available, and frankly I think they knew that when the process began (that he was unlikely to be the best option available). Then, at the end, they took him.

So, I imagine at some point in the future all 3 could be gone. Is that a good thing? Again, I share your disappointment in what has transpired, it's not a good thing; but what is good, and we should always know - this is not the same as before. A structure like this, with a GM empowered to lead, and an owner who will hire or fire that GM for success/failure - that is a structure that can win. The GM has to be smart and pick the right coaches as well. I think AP had his hands tied a bit in his first go, and that happens sometimes. He won't be so green the next time around, and maybe the process will go a bit differently.

All of that is IF they decide that this current iteration needs to be fully removed. I think that is very possible. With injuries and everything else, what they did in the last 4 games? No. Especially against that Dallas D. No way.

The thing that irks me is the slow as molasses decision making. I am not there, I don't have full knowledge, but I can see the units that have degraded fairly consistently, and the units that have been slightly better. I would be looking at WRs and CBs. Outside of McLaurin who was already a developed product, I don't see good development there. As for CBs... what on Earth is happening there? How many times will we see miscommunications and just ignore that? How many times will different CBs show basic technique issues and we ignore it?


If you take yourself seriously as an HC, you have to see when a unit is failing, you have to be able to tell when an assistant may not be doing their job properly. You have to be able to move on too. I don't know - to me, it seems clear to me that Tommy Donatell is a problem.

Quick side note: if you recognize the last name -- yes, that's Ed Donatell's son.

Peters knows which coaches are not cutting it, trust me.

There were some inklings last year with defense but after 12-5 it was hard to force any changes as a number of these guys are Quinn’s friends.

After 3-14 or whatever this team finishes in 2025, there will be no more sacred cows.

Bulldog said:

Peters knows which coaches are not cutting it, trust me.

There were some inklings last year with defense but after 12-5 it was hard to force any changes as a number of these guys are Quinn’s friends.

After 3-14 or whatever this team finishes in 2025, there will be no more sacred cows.

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If AP is part of the problem, he will be gone eventually too. GMs take longer to sort out.

I'm not saying he is or isn't. We all enjoyed the Giants stretch of badness! However, that stretch may be getting better because the organization may have taken steps to improve. It takes time to figure that out, but this is the structure that works, with an owner who is:

- not a moron
- not a scumball

From there, we can actually have hope to improve. Super bowl winners today? Tomorrow? No. I know we all (including me) thought it was possible we were really close after last year. Let's not say "I have no hope" though, because of the above.

This will be Quinn’s chance to show he can objectively evaluate his staff and respond to the needs of the team.

There is no fog of success like there was after last year and all eyes will be on this.

SkinsNumberOne said:

If AP is part of the problem, he will be gone eventually too. GMs take longer to sort out.

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I understand the sentiment with the way that the season has turned out, but I like his pedigree, there are a number of positive moves to point to, and some of the moves that haven't worked, looked good at the time.... so I don't want to play armchair QB.

I'd like to see us give him another ~3-4 years before we even consider the possibility of moving on.

Needless to say, everyone's job should be on the line this morning. Everyone. Except Peters. Trust me, I'm not thrilled he bought the hype a winning record and a WHOLE LOT of luck brought us last year, but he did. Signing old timers like we only needed a player or two to get to the show doesn't exactly inspire confidence. It remains to be seen if he can be fooled again, but a GM needs a few years to see if he's worth a damn. I don't want to see Whitt go anywhere this year either, because we need to tank out the rest of the year to get position in the draft, so we can trade down for more picks. And we will need them, because after this disaster of a season, I don't expect half of this team to be back next year. The retirement home players are certainly gone. Last night was embarrassing, and I expect the owners aren't real happy at this moment, but no matter what goes on, Harris is leaps and bounds above the previous POS owner. But like so many years before this, we're just going to have to wait and see how AP and Harris right the ship.

Discobob said:

I understand the sentiment with the way that the season has turned out, but I like his pedigree, there are a number of positive moves to point to, and some of the moves that haven't worked, looked good at the time.... so I don't want to play armchair QB.

I'd like to see us give him another ~3-4 years before we even consider the possibility of moving on.

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100% agree. It won’t be us making that decision and there is a trust thing for fans because we aren’t in the room. It is an interesting dynamic- when and why does our trust erode for specific orgs?

(Edit: I had other stuff here but now I read Ghost of Sarge just above. Basically same points so removed my redundant stuff).

I think my line of thought was around the idea that there is no sense in feeling hopeless. This isn’t 9 years of Cerrato with no logical football reason on his hire and especially retention. So hopelessness now? Does not compute.

AP inherited a dreadful roster, probably worst in the league. He's drafted well overall, but there were simply too many holes to fill, and he didn't start with 3 picks in every round as a mercy blessing from the league. You have to fill those gaps somehow. Short of breaking the glass, pulling the red lever and asking some of us to suit up, he basically had to go the vet route. Last season was lightning in a bottle and it spoiled us all. We are still rebuilding. That takes time. I can be patient with AP, less patient, though, with coaching issues. Keim has alluded to the Whitt deficit for two years in very subtle, gentle ways. He's been more blunt these last few weeks.

This is how I will remember the 2025 season,. What is this? We have seen it every single week. Anyone else notice all the jumping around and confusion pre-snap? These defensive coaches suck.

I can handle getting beat because we have a ton of injuries, inferior talent compared to our opponent, dont get the bounces... etc.

What I can't handle is what i'm seeing today about guys being overwhelmed, confused, and out of position. I also try really hard to be objective, and I think we're at the point that objectivity is even showing Whitt doesn't have these guys ready on game day. I can get 'over' seeing Wagner get beat by Swift because that's clearly a speed issue. I can't get over seeing it multiple times. Constantly asking guys to do what they're incapable of is a recipe for failure. I give the benefit of the doubt when you're trotting guys like Darnell Savage out there 9 days after you've signed him and he's a step or two out of place as he's getting familiarized with the defense and his teammates... that stuff happens. My problem is watching the same things happen over and over again.

I don't think you let Whitt go in-season, i don't think it actually gains anything at this point, unless you think he's teaching them incorrectly and you need to stop it. I do however think he's gone on Black Monday. As soon as our season is complete, he's sent packing.... and I fully understand that I was making a point for continuity last week on our Blind Pig Podcast, but as more data points come in, it changes the thinking. I honestly don't think this defensive roster is as bad as it's been at times. I thought there was a lot there during that first half against the Chiefs. THAT defense week in and week out, we're talking about a completely different season. The players and team are capable of that, they've done it. SOMETHING is preventing this team from playing that way more frequently..