So, jobless claims are up again. Now what?

[Goaldeje]

Over half the people in this country do not pay taxes

45% of AMericans are not working but are still being supported by people like me that pay taxes

Why?

Uh what? Where are you getting 45% from?
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[Goaldeje]

at the time he said it we were looking for a way to "end this war" or "endless war" and him saying 16 MONTHS is what people wanted to hear. he is very good at it but it is getting to where you can go "waaaaiiit a minute!! thats not what you said before!"

Agreed. If we were making progress, or showing signs of preparing to leave, I think most people, myself included, would be fairly forgiving. But we aren't, and I'm not. I'm not really sure why, but i don't count that as a bold faced lie though. Seems to he misevaluated the data, or was too optimistic or whatever. I think Obama is a very optimistic person and probably genuinely believed we could be out by now when he took office. That is one reason he has been an ineffective leader.
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[Sarge]

Uh what? Where are you getting 45% from?
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/econo...ns-leave-labor-force.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

[Nobody]

Over half the people in this country do not pay taxes

45% of AMericans are not working but are still being supported by people like me that pay taxes

Why?

It's the American way, didn't you get the memo?

I don't work now, because I physically can't. The only government benefit I collect is food stamps.

Do I feel I'm entitled to this even though I am not working? Yes. Why? Because I spent nearly 15 years working 50-60 hours per week, I graduated from high school, I am currently enrolled at ODU, and I served our country.

I have a neighbor down the street that openly admits to selling crack as his sole source of income. He collects welfare and food stamps, and he drives a used Bentley that he purchased with drug money. He has been arrested several times for his exploits, yet he never does time. He brags that he can buy whatever he wants, yet still collects money and food benefits from Uncle Sam, even though half the neighborhood has reported him for benefits fraud. Apparently he has enough money to pay his way out of trouble and regulations too.

A former friend of mine years ago had a baby and couldn't support herself, so she received every benefit under the sun. She loved it so much, that in a three year span she had 3 more children, just for the added benefits. Never worked, never married, different father for each child.

My friend and her husband got divorced. They have 2 children. When they divorced, she was the majority money maker, because he was in school. After they divorced, she lost her job due to her employer moving the business overseas, and her ex husband got an engineering position with Verizon.

She is now working at Wawa for $8 an hour, and he is making $60k+ When they were married, she got addicted to painkillers after back surgery. her husband branded her a drug addict in court, so he got full custody of both children. Even though she's clean and went through rehab and has been sober for years now, and her income is roughly 15% of what his is, she has to pay him child support. As a result, she has no money to live on and had to move in with a mutual friend of ours. Why does she have to pay child support when he makes more than her? Because before she lost her job, she was making over $80k per year for 12 years. They base child support on your earning potential, not actual earnings. The problem is, her earning potential is based on a job that has been replaced by robots in most cases, and she will likely never reach that potential again.

She went to Social Services to apply for food stamps and was declined. The reason? Her income level was too high to qualify since she is single, does not have her children, and lives with someone who also has income. They do not take into consideration any bills or financial obligations like child support when making food stamp benefit determinations.

They base it on your gross pay, and they base it on a 40 hour week even if you do not work 40 hours. The fact her room mate does not buy her food doesn't seem to matter either, so she has to make the trip from Norfolk to Virginia Beach multiple times each week to eat with friends and family. Now all of her remaining income is going to gas. But she still can't get help. The system is seriously flawed and needs to be dramatically changed.

Not every case is the same, and nothing is ever as it appears on the surface.

 

[Goaldeje]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econo...ns-leave-labor-force.htm?loc=interstitialskip

So the unemployment figures aren't bad engh, now we are going to include children, disabled and elderly to make Obama look bad. Awesome.
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[Henry]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/econo...ns-leave-labor-force.htm?loc=interstitialskip

That number includes all Americans. That number includes kids, retirees, stay-at-home parents ... are you really asking why your taxes have to go to programs that support them?

 

[Goaldeje]

Easy there, Henry. We can't let the facts get in the way of a good rant about how Obama ees the debil!

(thanks El!)
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[Henry]

are we ganging up here?

No, I swear.

It took me 15 minutes to pick my jaw off the floor and post a response. Had I seen Goaldeje's (or Extreme's actually. That was a very good post) I wouldn't have bothered.

 

[Goaldeje]

No, I swear.

It took me 15 minutes to pick my jaw off the floor and post a response. Had I seen Goaldeje's (or Extreme's actually. That was a very good post) I wouldn't have bothered.

So you're saying Extreme's was better than mine?

I thought we were liberal, communist, socialist, left wing nut-job friends.

Whatever.


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[fansince62]

So the unemployment figures aren't bad engh, now we are going to include children, disabled and elderly to make Obama look bad. Awesome.
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why not? the numbers have consistently under-counted unemployment....most especially those who have dropped out of job searching and the partially employed.

Obama = disaster.

 

[fansince62]

Easy there, Henry. We can't let the facts get in the way of a good rant about how Obama ees the debil!

(thanks El!)
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pls...this administration has been manipulating "the facts" from Day 1.

 

[fansince62]

It's the American way, didn't you get the memo?

I don't work now, because I physically can't. The only government benefit I collect is food stamps.

Do I feel I'm entitled to this even though I am not working? Yes. Why? Because I spent nearly 15 years working 50-60 hours per week, I graduated from high school, I am currently enrolled at ODU, and I served our country.

I have a neighbor down the street that openly admits to selling crack as his sole source of income. He collects welfare and food stamps, and he drives a used Bentley that he purchased with drug money. He has been arrested several times for his exploits, yet he never does time. He brags that he can buy whatever he wants, yet still collects money and food benefits from Uncle Sam, even though half the neighborhood has reported him for benefits fraud. Apparently he has enough money to pay his way out of trouble and regulations too.

A former friend of mine years ago had a baby and couldn't support herself, so she received every benefit under the sun. She loved it so much, that in a three year span she had 3 more children, just for the added benefits. Never worked, never married, different father for each child.

My friend and her husband got divorced. They have 2 children. When they divorced, she was the majority money maker, because he was in school. After they divorced, she lost her job due to her employer moving the business overseas, and her ex husband got an engineering position with Verizon.

She is now working at Wawa for $8 an hour, and he is making $60k+ When they were married, she got addicted to painkillers after back surgery. her husband branded her a drug addict in court, so he got full custody of both children. Even though she's clean and went through rehab and has been sober for years now, and her income is roughly 15% of what his is, she has to pay him child support. As a result, she has no money to live on and had to move in with a mutual friend of ours. Why does she have to pay child support when he makes more than her? Because before she lost her job, she was making over $80k per year for 12 years. They base child support on your earning potential, not actual earnings. The problem is, her earning potential is based on a job that has been replaced by robots in most cases, and she will likely never reach that potential again.

She went to Social Services to apply for food stamps and was declined. The reason? Her income level was too high to qualify since she is single, does not have her children, and lives with someone who also has income. They do not take into consideration any bills or financial obligations like child support when making food stamp benefit determinations.

They base it on your gross pay, and they base it on a 40 hour week even if you do not work 40 hours. The fact her room mate does not buy her food doesn't seem to matter either, so she has to make the trip from Norfolk to Virginia Beach multiple times each week to eat with friends and family. Now all of her remaining income is going to gas. But she still can't get help. The system is seriously flawed and needs to be dramatically changed.

Not every case is the same, and nothing is ever as it appears on the surface.

what's your point? that life isn't fair? work to change the rules.......get the f'ing idiots in power to support developing domestic energy sources......organize charity events (my wife does)......

you know this already: a lot of the inequities can be fixed (i.e., the discretionary income/wealth generated) if the government gets out of the way and lets people live according to their own lights rather than dictating right and wrong. the fundamental flaw with Liberalism/Progressivism is that it expects the worst from individuals and the best from government.......bassackwards as we have been learning.

 

[stevenaa]

Higher fuel prices will cripple economic recovery. Expect a spike in foreclosures as families are forced to decide between fuel for transportation to work or paying bills. Many many families can handle a 200/mnth increase in fues costs.

 

[Henry]

the fundamental flaw with Liberalism/Progressivism is that it expects the worst from individuals and the best from government.......bassackwards as we have been learning.

Conservatives expect people on welfare to stay on welfare and not try and find work. They assume immigrants don't want to assimilate into our society and come here for the sole purpose of leeching off entitlement programs. They assume poor people are lazy. They assume those who aren't religious are immoral.

Expecting the worst of people is not a flaw with liberalism. It's a tool used by both ideologies to justify policy.

Hell, Sarge's 'why should my taxes support the people who don't work' question practically defines that technique.

And that was the point.

 

[Elephant]

Here's another aspect of this that rarely gets discussed. Those people who have become dependent on the government (rightfully or not) have an option other than the government. Every church I have ever belonged to is more than willing to assist. And they have been willing to help those that may or may not be Christians, but could provide genuine proof that they needed help.

Now that these churches are facing less income because parishioners are being burdened by the current economy, those programs are suffering. Some would suggest this is planned by social engineering. Churches have been one of the largest provider for social needs for the majority of this nation's history. Now, they are being attacked every step of the way as progressives push for the government to provide for those in need.

Of course when Obama gets up in front of the country and blames Republicans for wanting to rob granny of food, he neglects the fact that the majority of those with money give tremendous amounts to private social groups.

 

[Henry]

Progressives planned for unemployment to go up, thereby depriving people of money to give to churches?

Everything suffers in a bad economy. That doesn't mean those suffering are being targeted by the current government.

Remember, the government isn't targeting people who can't pay taxes because they don't have jobs. That's their own damn fault.

 

[Elephant]

Progressives planned for unemployment to go up, thereby depriving people of money to give to churches?

Everything suffers in a bad economy. That doesn't mean those suffering are being targeted by the current government.

Well, they did implement policies creating uncertainty to a degree that companies began laying people off causing unemployment levels we hadn't seen in nearly 30 years...

And we know they are pushing the prices of gas up so there is urgency in the quest for alternative fuels...

Edit: I am not a conspiracy theorist Henry, but I do believe there are many progressives who would like to see Christian Churches fall by the wayside and government become the vehicle for assistance to the needy. I am not suggesting they are actively seeking methods to make things worse, but in the same breath I believe there are many who are glad to see the economy suffer and Christian charities' influence minimized.

 

[Goaldeje]

Christian churches are falling by the wayside, El. The Libs don't have to do much, the churches are doing it to themselves. Once upon a time, most churches believed in social justice, which is exactly what you are talking about. Now, that phrase is almost a dirty word.

I agree completely with you, btw. I wish churches would step up and take over more of these responsibilities. I wish the govt would allow and promote the switchover, and I wish the churches would accept the challenge and run with it. The problem is that a lot of churches would not be willing to serve homosexuals, Muslims, buddhists, etc. Which won't work.
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[fansince62]

Christian churches are falling by the wayside, El. The Libs don't have to do much, the churches are doing it to themselves. Once upon a time, most churches believed in social justice, which is exactly what you are talking about. Now, that phrase is almost a dirty word.

I agree completely with you, btw. I wish churches would step up and take over more of these responsibilities. I wish the govt would allow and promote the switchover, and I wish the churches would accept the challenge and run with it. The problem is that a lot of churches would not be willing to serve homosexuals, Muslims, buddhists, etc. Which won't work.
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the issue isn't social justice - the issue is whether one elects to employ the full force of government to enforce what some elements of society consider "justice" on other elements of society.

 

[Ax]

The problem is that a lot of churches would not be willing to serve homosexuals, Muslims, buddhists, etc. Which won't work.
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Seems logical since all these groups will not serve Christianity, under the church's guidelines, either.

Is there a problem officer?

Oh, and when did homosexuality become a religion.

I know that's not what you said, but you did lump them together as if they were one in the same.