2012 Presidential Election

[Goaldeje]

Boone, i think a lot of people saw Obama as a vote against Palin. I know everyone says there is an equal chance for everyone to get assassinated or die in an accident or whatever. But the fact remains that John MCCain is OLD. A lot older than Obama. And just by dint of that, his VP is a lot closer to the white house than Obama's.

Those who defend the Obama vote are still happy to potential Sarah Palin out of office.

Not making a value judgment one way or the other, just an observation.
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[Boone]

I understand your position. That being said, anyone who makes their Presidential vote based on the possibility of assassination probably needs to reexamine their criteria. Let me see? Given that the Presidential selection matters 100% of the time, while their successor is relevant 2% of the time - I can see the logic...

And I'll add - the topic at hand isn't why some made a bonehead emotional vote for Obama, it's why you'll vote for him next time. Apparently, some are prepared to repeat the mistake.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Only thing I will add...

Too early to tell who will win the Rep. nomination and the general election. Remember when Hillary was a shoo-in? The eventual winner could come out of no where. And politics can change on a dime.

 

[Goaldeje]

I understand your position. That being said, anyone who makes their Presidential vote based on the possibility of assassination probably needs to reexamine their criteria. Let me see? Given that the Presidential selection matters 100% of the time, while their successor is relevant 2% of the time - I can see the logic...

And I'll add - the topic at hand isn't why some made a bonehead emotional vote for Obama, it's why you'll vote for him next time. Apparently, some are prepared to repeat the mistake.

John, I wonder if there isn't an underlying reason as well, after thinking about it more. When Palin was announced as McCain's running mate, McCain enjoyed an impressive bounce in ratings. This was slowly eroded away as Obama's spin machine and the liberal media attacked Palin, and she was eventually exposed. Tina Fey's impersonation probably had a lot more to do with this than anyone will ever be able to measure. Eventually, whether true or fair or not, the general public, and more importantly the swing voters, began to define her as a moron.

This had to hurt McCain's credibility. You can argue about who really tagged her for the VP, but regardless, the public probably started losing faith in McCain because of his choice.

Now the interesting situation to watch would be if Palin got the GOP nomination next year. I don't think they will that happen, but if it did, Obama's chances to win would increase exponentially, IMO.
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[Boone]

I think that's a stretch. I heard lots of folks say they wouldn't vote for McCain because of Palin. I didn't hear anyone say, not even once, that they wouldn't vote for McCain because of his poor judgement in selecting Palin. I think most people saw that, no matter how fine a man McCain was (he likely would've won election against anyone other than Obama that year), he had to do something dramatic to slow down the Obama juggernaut. It was a gamble and didn't work for all the reasons you stated.

Taking this thread far afield though. I will anxiously await Obama's campaign - because I am truly curious as to what record he will run on. I can't really think of a single major accomplishment. He's a very nice man. But in my estimation that's hardly enough to warrant re-election. That being said, I fully expect to see it happen.

 

[Elephant]

...

Taking this thread far afield though. I will anxiously await Obama's campaign - because I am truly curious as to what record he will run on. I can't really think of a single major accomplishment. He's a very nice man. But in my estimation that's hardly enough to warrant re-election. That being said, I fully expect to see it happen.

I think it went far afield elsewhere, but that's ok the OP is guilty of that.

Anyway, I agree will be an interesting campaign from the Obama camp. First off, I believe he will tout the Health Care legislation they rammed through as a success. He will likely suggest Iraq is his victory since the combat troops are mostly out. The repeal of don't ask/don't tell will be another he will tout as a success.

These three issues will go a long way in satisfying the far left enough to keep them from having a candidate of their own, unless Nader continues to fault him for his actions in Libya if this turns out to be a lingering engagement.

I believe the problem he faces is the loss of the middle. His only chance with them is to paint the Republican party with a Tea Party brush that could scare those in the middle enough to stay away from a Republican ticket. They have already begun that with the budget debate. Schumer is blaming Boehner for kowtowing the Freshman Repubs who were voted in on the Tea Party Express who are keeping the Congress from coming to an agreement.

Obama's re-election campaign has already begun and I have a fear of David Axelrod as Obama's campaign manager. The man is damn good! Too bad Karl Rove is seen as such a negative figure because he would be a great adversary to Axelrod.

One note of the discussion you and Goal have going: I agree with you that it was less about Palin as it was about the Obama campaign machine. Like I stated early in this thread, that campaign was one of the best in modern times.

 

[Goaldeje]

I think that's a stretch. I heard lots of folks say they wouldn't vote for McCain because of Palin. I didn't hear anyone say, not even once, that they wouldn't vote for McCain because of his poor judgement in selecting Palin. I think most people saw that, no matter how fine a man McCain was (he likely would've won election against anyone other than Obama that year), he had to do something dramatic to slow down the Obama juggernaut. It was a gamble and didn't work for all the reasons you stated.

Taking this thread far afield though. I will anxiously await Obama's campaign - because I am truly curious as to what record he will run on. I can't really think of a single major accomplishment. He's a very nice man. But in my estimation that's hardly enough to warrant re-election. That being said, I fully expect to see it happen.

I don't think it's a stretch at all. In fact, I would wager that while most people did not take the time to connect the dots, they probably felt a bit of a loss in confidence in McCain. You said yew many people wouldn't vote for McCain bc of Palin; the natural extrapolation is for those people to question the person who decided to list Palin on the ticket. If you know people wouldn't vote for McCain BECAUSE of Palin, how much of a stretch is it to think they lost confidence in the man who put her on the ticket?

I think Obama can win again, but it depends on who the Repubs trot out there. El nailed it, it (as always) is gonna come down to the middle. Obama did a fantastic job reaching out to them in campaign season, and theretreated so far left I can barely see him anymore. If the Repubs can do the same, they have a chance.
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[Sarge]

And I'll add - the topic at hand isn't why some made a bonehead emotional vote for Obama, it's why you'll vote for him next time. Apparently, some are prepared to repeat the mistake.

Yeah, people like this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc[/media]


Exhibit A of why we should go back to being required to own land or property in order to vote.

This nitwit in effect, nullifies my vote.

 

[fansince62]

I don't think it's a stretch at all. In fact, I would wager that while most people did not take the time to connect the dots, they probably felt a bit of a loss in confidence in McCain. You said yew many people wouldn't vote for McCain bc of Palin; the natural extrapolation is for those people to question the person who decided to list Palin on the ticket. If you know people wouldn't vote for McCain BECAUSE of Palin, how much of a stretch is it to think they lost confidence in the man who put her on the ticket?

I think Obama can win again, but it depends on who the Repubs trot out there. El nailed it, it (as always) is gonna come down to the middle. Obama did a fantastic job reaching out to them in campaign season, and theretreated so far left I can barely see him anymore. If the Repubs can do the same, they have a chance.
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oh pls...we all know what happened: partly through his own doing/failings and hugely through a media that was heavily anti-Bush...culminating in two years of unrelenting Congressional attacks...the country was searching for anyone diametrically opposed to what Bush stood for, sounded like, looked like, etc., etc......McCain was too closely associated through support for the war. the American public was ready for anyone not tied to the establishment...even Barry Soetoro. the media/Soetoro's managers then took off and sold everyone on this messiah myth that all the nitwits in the world were all too willing to accept unexamined. some...ahemmmm.....mentioned that there was no experience base where it counted and...more importantly...no real long-lived political alliances/machine for the jejune young Barry to build an administration. it's as though there was this mass delusion where people thought "yea....he went to Harvard and taught a law class or two...and we know any ole academic is qualified to be President...cuz they're really smart!" I'll leave aside the racial dynamic since I feel it is partly false......the Left didn't back Barry because he was Black...they go out of their way to destroy Blacks and other minorities who do not support their pretensions to power......

two weak candidates in retrospect.....but one might venture to guess that the loser couldn't have been as damaging as the winner....but that's dollars under the bridge.

vis Palin...btw....there are things I like others I definitely find questionable about her. but as I think about it....how could Palin be ANY worse than the supremely buffoonerific Biden? the next in line argument doesn't cut it with me cuz Biden would be as big a disaster.

 

[Sarge]

"And the words of the prophets were written on the studio wall" ~ Rush


Well, in this case the words were written on another forum two and a half years ago

Just remember, especially in four years, Sarge told you so

 

[Henry]

I think that's a stretch. I heard lots of folks say they wouldn't vote for McCain because of Palin. I didn't hear anyone say, not even once, that they wouldn't vote for McCain because of his poor judgement in selecting Palin.

Actually Boone, that's exactly what I said. I can't dig all day, but this was one time I mentioned it:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthr...oting-McCain&p=5748337&viewfull=1#post5748337

I was in McCain's camp for most of the election, but the Palin pick really shook me. On election day I was in the booth staring at the names still trying to decide, and I did end up picking Obama. Once McCain picked Palin and her momentum picked up McCain seemed to be caught up in the wave rather than able to control it. I didn't think that boded well for his Presidency. Not for a guy who's big draw was his supposed ability to grab a bull by the horns and wrestle it to the ground.

Taking this thread far afield though. I will anxiously await Obama's campaign - because I am truly curious as to what record he will run on. I can't really think of a single major accomplishment. He's a very nice man. But in my estimation that's hardly enough to warrant re-election. That being said, I fully expect to see it happen.

His job approval rating is still hovering around 48%. That's enough to get most Presidents re-elected. I'm very curious to see who the GOP comes up with to run against him. It should be very interesting.

I will say this. If Obama does win in 2012, unless things change dramatically I think the GOP is going to clean up in 2016. I know that's a long way off, but Obama is not Reagan or Clinton. His coattails seem oddly thin for a President as popular (or not unpopular, if you will) as he is.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm fairly astounded by that proclamation.

So you essentially acknowledge that Obama is a zero, while simultaneously confirming you don't care - you'd vote for him all over again.

That's great

John McCain - psychotic female running mate or not - demonstrates more leadership sleeping than Obama could ever even glimpse.

I'd love to hear you argue the point.

I think that's a stretch. I heard lots of folks say they wouldn't vote for McCain because of Palin. I didn't hear anyone say, not even once, that they wouldn't vote for McCain because of his poor judgement in selecting Palin. I think most people saw that, no matter how fine a man McCain was (he likely would've won election against anyone other than Obama that year), he had to do something dramatic to slow down the Obama juggernaut. It was a gamble and didn't work for all the reasons you stated.

I've stated elsewhere, and I'll state it again - I would have voted for McCain over Obama if:

1) He had stuck to his politics, and campaigned as John McCain. I felt that he kowtowed to the right-wing, and toed the party-line to get the nomination. Wrong or right, it came off as wishy-washy pandering to me, and left a bad taste in my mouth. I actually liked him as a candidate before he started talking like a Republicon2000 robot - he's actually one of the more forward-thinking right wing guys in Congress, I think.

2) Sarah Palin was not selected as his running mate. I haven't even seen the Tina Fey impersonation, and I'm not sure what Obama's spin-factory has said about her - she embodies a lot of right-wing view points I think are pretty vile, and does it with her cartoony demeanor. Her whole persona screams "Don't vote for me" right into my ear.

Obama has failed as a leader...but I still think he's a better choice than a wishy-washy conformist & a cartoon. Wrong or right, its just my 2 cents.

I understand your position. That being said, anyone who makes their Presidential vote based on the possibility of assassination probably needs to reexamine their criteria. Let me see? Given that the Presidential selection matters 100% of the time, while their successor is relevant 2% of the time - I can see the logic...

And I'll add - the topic at hand isn't why some made a bonehead emotional vote for Obama, it's why you'll vote for him next time. Apparently, some are prepared to repeat the mistake.

"Bonehead emotional vote" - do you think loaded statements like this add to the discussion?

Taking this thread far afield though. I will anxiously await Obama's campaign - because I am truly curious as to what record he will run on. I can't really think of a single major accomplishment. He's a very nice man. But in my estimation that's hardly enough to warrant re-election. That being said, I fully expect to see it happen.

I'm not even 100% sure he will run for a second term. Unless he's stated otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised to see him step down for family reasons or something.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

you act like because you have the same opinion as henry that you communicate it the same. youre rude and speak down to people and thats why i dont talk to you like i do henry.

you cant really believe im not able to comprehend what I read yet you pop off with this type of talk in hopes of getting me mad and making me lose my cool. im on to it and its a lame tactic so stop with the cheap insults and we can talk.

Mike, you demand so much respect, but then you turn around and accuse me of things with no proof and write off anything I have to say because of it. Respect is a two-way street, my man.

 

[Elephant]

"Bonehead emotional vote" - do you think loaded statements like this add to the discussion?

I don't think this was a loaded statement at all! If you remember when we were in the middle of it earlier in this thread you will see I used an example of a bonehead (My former co-worker) who voted for Obama because he wanted to be a part of history by voting in the first black President. I have nothing wrong with a black President. Heck! I would rather see Alan Keyes as President than Obama! But to vote for someone because of their skin color is...well...call it what you want. I will make the call boneheaded. I warned my co-worker he would be laid-off if Obama wins. Obama won, there were threats of this Health Care monstrosity and BOOM! He got laid off.

I'm not even 100% sure he will run for a second term. Unless he's stated otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised to see him step down for family reasons or something.

If you think for a second the narcissist who currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is not running for a second term you are sadly out of touch. David Axelrod retired his position at the White House to begin the Obama re-election campaign after this past November elections.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

If you think for a second the narcissist who currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is not running for a second term you are sadly out of touch. David Axelrod retired his position at the White House to begin the Obama re-election campaign after this past November elections.

Its just my opinion, dude - no need to be a douche about it.

Plans change, is all I'm saying. Obama looks and acts like someone who doesn't want to be in the White House anymore.

 

[Elephant]

Its just my opinion, dude - no need to be a douche about it.

Plans change, is all I'm saying. Obama looks and acts like someone who doesn't want to be in the White House anymore.

You mean indecisive, in over his head, scared? Yeah, there is something we can agree upon.

But your opinion is based on what? A feeling? You're statement is coming from an angle that someone who is out of touch would make. Not long after the November elections were over the White House Senior Advisor David Axelord left his position to concentrate on Obama's re-election campaign. In fact, he made the announcement before those elections. When those elections were so one-sided, it was obvious Axelrod needed to get busy so he left his position about 6 months earlier than originally planned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/14/david-axelrod-leaving-whi_1_n_783228.html

This is pretty common knowledge. Obama has given no indication that he won't run for another term. In fact, he has shown his intention is to run again (see above). His actions continue to be one of a President who is more concerned with making a mistake, therefore diminishing his polling numbers.

As for the douche comment...
I think I know you well enough to know that the smiley was intended to make light of the statement, but it is language that brings nothing to the table except apparent bitterness. You claimed Boone brought nothing to the table with his statement, well explain to me why using the term douche would bring anything to the discussion.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

You mean indecisive, in over his head, scared? Yeah, there is something we can agree upon.

But your opinion is based on what? A feeling? You're statement is coming from an angle that someone who is out of touch would make. Not long after the November elections were over the White House Senior Advisor David Axelord left his position to concentrate on Obama's re-election campaign. In fact, he made the announcement before those elections. When those elections were so one-sided, it was obvious Axelrod needed to get busy so he left his position about 6 months earlier than originally planned.

I have a feeling/intuition about it, Obama's recent actions and body language, as well as conversations with people who are far from "sadly out of touch" when it comes to politics.

In fact, I would argue that its pretty out of touch to think that Obama bowing out of the 2012 elections is not a real possibility. In fact, there are quite a few articles on the topic, some pundits espouse the notion, and of course Obama's own words to CNN: "I may not run in 2012."

EDIT: not to mention pressure on Obama not to run from inside the Democrat party itself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/14/david-axelrod-leaving-whi_1_n_783228.html

This is pretty common knowledge. Obama has given no indication that he won't run for another term. In fact, he has shown his intention is to run again (see above). His actions continue to be one of a President who is more concerned with making a mistake, therefore diminishing his polling numbers.

Obama bowing out is quite a popular theory in the blogosphere and political climate right now...

As for the douche comment...
I think I know you well enough to know that the smiley was intended to make light of the statement, but it is language that brings nothing to the table except apparent bitterness. You claimed Boone brought nothing to the table with his statement, well explain to me why using the term douche would bring anything to the discussion.

Apologies, that was in reference to an earlier thread...sorry if you did not catch it. It brings nothing to the table except humor, which apparently didn't work either.

 

[Elephant]

I have a feeling/intuition about it, Obama's recent actions and body language, as well as conversations with people who are far from "sadly out of touch" when it comes to politics.

In fact, I would argue that its pretty out of touch to think that Obama bowing out of the 2012 elections is not a real possibility. In fact, there are quite a few articles on the topic, some pundits espouse the notion, and of course Obama's own words to CNN: "I may not run in 2012."

EDIT: not to mention pressure on Obama not to run from inside the Democrat party itself.

Pure speculation from the blogosphere. The reality is, Obama is going to run for a 2nd term barring any freak event. The only indication you can provide is what some are speculating. I have shown actual evidence of his intention to run again. You have to know there is a gargantuan difference.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Pure speculation from the blogosphere. The reality is, Obama is going to run for a 2nd term barring any freak event. The only indication you can provide is what some are speculating. I have shown actual evidence of his intention to run again. You have to know there is a gargantuan difference.

His own words to the contrary aren't evidence? It shows that not-running is at least in his head. Yes, its mostly intuition and speculation, but in reality Axelrod's retirement proves nothing except that he's leaving it open to run in 2012. With campaigns starting earlier and earlier, he had to cover all bases.

PS - Axelrod didn't resign until the end of January.

PPS - *MOST* political arguments of this nature are speculation, so why would this be any different? You are again allowing your hatred of Obama to cloud your vision.

 

[Elephant]

His own words to the contrary aren't evidence? It shows that not-running is at least in his head. Yes, its mostly intuition and speculation, but in reality Axelrod's retirement proves nothing except that he's leaving it open to run in 2012. With campaigns starting earlier and earlier, he had to cover all bases.

Link?

PS - Axelrod didn't resign until the end of January.

January 28, 2011. What's your point? It was a plan he announced in September of last year and according to accounts he wasn't to leave until summer.

PPS - *MOST* political arguments of this nature are speculation, so why would this be any different? You are again allowing your hatred of Obama to cloud your vision.

OMG, are you dense? There are news reports out there, hard facts, that state Axelrod has already begun to get the re-election campaign underway!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2011-01-31-axelrod31_ST_N.htm

Jaimie! This is not speculation! It is cold hard fact. This has nothing to do with my dislike of Obama. I have repeated time and time again on this board, the only thing in this world I truly hate is the Dallas Cowboys so don't put words in my mouth! I do not hate Obama or any other person. Do I dislike his policies or him as our President? Yes! Does that change the facts as I have presented them on this day? No!

your assertion that Obama will not run in 2012 is pure specualtion!

My claim that Obama will run is based and supported by one of his top advisors who resigned his position in the White House to head up the re-election campaign!

Actions speak louder than words!

Please stop being argumentative just to be argumentative. You are much smarter than you are leading on in this latest exchange between us.