Goodell Speaks...

[fansince62]

Slightly surprised no poll to see whose siding with the owners, players or overall isn't picking sides just get a deal done.

informally......I listened to NFL radio over the last several days and it seems evenly divided.

what is surprising? many of the moderators feel the NFLPA has made a big mistake. They are betting on a favorable outcome (as in the past) from this Judge Doughty...and betting on the come they won't kill the golden goose (i.e., the fans) that fuels the engine. these moderators have mentioned more than once that hiring a non-NFL experienced person like Mr Smith was a serious mistake.....moreover, they are suggesting Mr Smith is in this to fuel future political ambitions and not necessarily for the best interests of the NFL or the players.

we'll see. I'm not happy...lot's of the dial-ins I heard talked about canx'ing Direct TV accounts, yearly travel to favorite team home games, etc. Lot of folks gonna be hurt by this if it drags on.

 

[Goaldeje]

You honestly think the players aren't accepting risk? Physical risk aside (which is a pretty damned big aside), there are guaranteed contracts. If the owners are hurting that much, cut Peyton or Tom to save money.

No, private companies do not have to open their books, and the owners don't either. But their claims that they are losing money are less believable without it. As it is now, you're asking me to believe the word of people who profess great concern for the welfare of players regarding concussions, and then push for two additional regular season games? Yeah, pardon me if I am not swimming in trust at this point.

I will try to look it up tomorrow, ,but it seems to me I keep reading about record numbers for the NFL.

I know i will be accused on a players apologist, understand I think DeMaurice has made some unreasonable demands and crucial errors. But both sides are at fault here.

Just trying to remind folks that the owners are not blameless here...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Elephant]

Just trying to remind folks that the owners are not blameless here...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

But they are the ones who have made major concessions. After reading what the owners offered, I am no longer siding with the players at all!

 

[the Omniscient]

I have a question for you more savvy types. Now that the union has de-certified, once their is a collective bargaining agreement in place, do these unions re-certify? It all seems like a crock of **** to me.

El - This quote might interest you:

WASHINGTON, D.C.—U.S. Chamber of Commerce Senior Vice President of Labor, Immigration, and Employee Benefits, Randel K. Johnson, issued the following statement today on the decision by the NFL Players Association to decertify as a union:

“We are troubled by the decision of the NFL Players to decertify as a union so that they may litigate under the antitrust laws, with the prospect that once the litigation is over they will again claim they are a union. Gaming the labor laws and the antitrust laws offers a potentially disastrous model for labor-management relations in this country and raises serious questions of labor policy.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the world’s largest business federation representing the interests of more than 3 million businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state and local chambers and industry associations.

http://www.uschamber.com/press/rele...ision-nfl-players-association-decertify-union

 

[the Omniscient]

Now, there may be complications that I am not aware of, but why not let the NFL run this year on last years rules? An extension. Over the next year, both the NFL and the players can continue to argue with mediators (something they did not use until a couple of weeks ago). This way, we do not lose any games and they still make money.


Totally hypothetical:

What if the NFL went with scabs and never came to an agreement with the players? Where would the players go? The AFL? With one of the 6 mighty teams of the UFL? Or how about the ever impressive Lingerie Football League?

There is high turnover in the NFL. What is the average career length? Most of today's superstars could be replaced within a decade. What if the owners decided to start over? Starting with this draft and scabs.

Now the product would be hurt for two to three years, but I think it would get back on its feet fairly quickly. The historical and popular teams would hold the league upright for a few years. We still have the popular coaches, we will just miss Manning, Brees, Brady and the like. But, they will be replaced in time.

What if Jake Locker, Cam Newton, or Andy Dalton are the beginning of a new era? I know they won't be, but what is stopping the owners from flipping a middle finger to the players?

I bet most of these players would come back to the league. Especially the ones making under $1 mil a year, which is probably about 75% of the league. Actually, that number is a total guess...you got me there.

But the players that make under $1 mil a year would be back quickly, followed by some more popular players. Of course, Manning and Brady might not make it back because they are set for life, but other younger superstars will. The younger superstars are the future of the sport anyways.

Slightly surprised no poll to see whose siding with the owners, players or overall isn't picking sides just get a deal done.

Honestly, I do not see how any fan could choose sides. We do not have enough information. According to a poll I just made up, we only know about 8% of what is actually going on in these rooms.

 

[fansince62]

You honestly think the players aren't accepting risk? Physical risk aside (which is a pretty damned big aside), there are guaranteed contracts. If the owners are hurting that much, cut Peyton or Tom to save money.

No, private companies do not have to open their books, and the owners don't either. But their claims that they are losing money are less believable without it. As it is now, you're asking me to believe the word of people who profess great concern for the welfare of players regarding concussions, and then push for two additional regular season games? Yeah, pardon me if I am not swimming in trust at this point.

I will try to look it up tomorrow, ,but it seems to me I keep reading about record numbers for the NFL.

I know i will be accused on a players apologist, understand I think DeMaurice has made some unreasonable demands and crucial errors. But both sides are at fault here.

Just trying to remind folks that the owners are not blameless here...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Speaking about physical risk to someone who served in the military for a full career...well...it just doesn't carry the weight you might have intended. and ther Federal government has a lot more "revenue" to sahre than the NFL!!!!!

the players make a choice...just like those who serve on the front lines.

 

[Ax]

Slightly surprised no poll to see whose siding with the owners, players or overall isn't picking sides just get a deal done.

For me, being against the players does NOT mean I am FOR the owners, necessarily. I just think it's ridiculous for them to think they have the right to dictate to their employer how much money they can make. I'm sure we'd all LIKE to have that right, but, we don't. And shouldn't.

I know i will be accused on a players apologist, understand I think DeMaurice has made some unreasonable demands and crucial errors. But both sides are at fault here.

Just trying to remind folks that the owners are not blameless here...
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

My guess would be that you're more "pro-union", than "pro-player."

And, I haven't seen anyone suggest that the owners are blameless here. Well, except maybe the owners.

Speaking about physical risk to someone who served in the military for a full career...well...it just doesn't carry the weight you might have intended. and the Federal government has a lot more "revenue" to share than the NFL!!!!!

the players make a choice...just like those who serve on the front lines.

This. Thank you very much.

Not to mention law enforcement, fire and rescue, etc...

 

[Goaldeje]

Speaking about physical risk to someone who served in the military for a full career...well...it just doesn't carry the weight you might have intended. and ther Federal government has a lot more "revenue" to sahre than the NFL!!!!!

the players make a choice...just like those who serve on the front lines.

...and the owners make a choice too. Again, the players have no guaranteed contracts. The owners could save a hell of a lot of money by cutting their expensive players anytime they want.

And I think you misread my post. I did not emphasize physical health. I emphasized non guaranteed contracts, which you have yet to address.
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[fansince62]

...and the owners make a choice too. Again, the players have no guaranteed contracts. The owners could save a hell of a lot of money by cutting their expensive players anytime they want.

And I think you misread my post. I did not emphasize physical health. I emphasized non guaranteed contracts, which you have yet to address.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

1) You have emphasized player injuries through multiple posts, in multiple threads for many mos. It's a pet theme of yours whether you acknowledge it or not.

2) I don't care about guaranteed contracts...worked reallyu well with Haynesworth and the dozens of really caring players who have waltzed through DC since 1993...has it not?

3) Screw the players. I'll listen to these arse wipes whining about revenue sharing when I hear them talk about cost sharing. until then....just like the owners...I know they could care less about the fans.

 

[Goaldeje]

1) Acknowledged that it is something I feel strongly about. Nonetheless, for the point of this discussion, in this thread, it was not something I chose to emphasize.

2) And your point is made through Fat Al? Really? You don't think that damages your argument? Snyder chose to stupidly throw how much money at Al, knowing his history of not giving a crap until his contract year, and still did it? Sure, Al should have played better, but that was an awful signing by the FO. Were you expecting Haynesworth to say, "you know, all that money is really appealing, but I think I'm gonna turn it down and play somewhere else because I know in advance I will not play up to expectations"?

The history of lousy FA works for my argument more than yours, sorry. Particularly so when you factor in guys like Fletcher who have been worth it and more.

3) I guess this is what I don't understand. I personally identify more with the workers than the owners. You do realize that while Peyton is making millions upon millions, an undrafted rookie FA doesn't make that much more than a lot of us on this board? Those guys are who this fight is really about.

And I agree, neither side gives two ****s about us as fans, which is a shame. I guess I would rather have more money go to the players who actually entertain me, rather than owners who continually stick it to me by charging $15 for a beer while I sit in my $500/seat watching a game after having paid $40 to park, while wearing a $85 jersey of my favorite player.

What would be best would be for everyone to take a pay cut and pass the savings along to the fan. But we all know that ain't happening...

 

[Neophyte]

Slightly surprised no poll to see whose siding with the owners, players or overall isn't picking sides just get a deal done.

Good idea. Consider it done.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Its just sad - the real losers aren't the players, owners, or fans - its the 90K people who will be out of a job if there's no football this season; also the NFL cities that will lose millions of dollars in revenue, at a time when the economy needs all the stimulation it can get. If Goodell was really serious, he should take his PR stunt $10M salary and give it to those folks.

I see both sides - and both sides are greedy. I tend to side with the players more, because what they do is violent and leaves many of them crippled and in pain for the rest of their lives; and the owners are asking them to take a pay cut. I mean, yes they are the owners, and they don't have to justify any financial decisions to the players, but the result is no football.

 

[Ax]

...and the owners make a choice too. Again, the players have no guaranteed contracts. The owners could save a hell of a lot of money by cutting their expensive players anytime they want.

Posted via BGO Mobile Device

On the flipside, when a Sean Taylor is murdered, or that Caruthe (sp) asshole from Carolina goes to prison for murder, the team still has to count their guaranteed money against the cap, even though they're dead/gone. Will the union step up and pay that bill?

 

[Goaldeje]

Not sure you can hold the union responsible for either of those situations. Having said that, the league should have given draft picks or something in both cases.
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[Ax]

Not sure you can hold the union responsible for either of those situations. Having said that, the league should have given draft picks or something in both cases.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

I'm not sure either, although I suspect it was a blanket coverage deal that the union argued for, to keep owners from EVER being able to remove a player, and his guaranteed money, for other reasons not so clear as death, or imprisonment.

I don't agree with them getting draft picks, but, they should be able to remove these types of unforeseen cap penalties, and free up the money so the team could sign another player. For top dollar, if necessary.

 

[fansince62]

1) Acknowledged that it is something I feel strongly about. Nonetheless, for the point of this discussion, in this thread, it was not something I chose to emphasize.

2) And your point is made through Fat Al? Really? You don't think that damages your argument? Snyder chose to stupidly throw how much money at Al, knowing his history of not giving a crap until his contract year, and still did it? Sure, Al should have played better, but that was an awful signing by the FO. Were you expecting Haynesworth to say, "you know, all that money is really appealing, but I think I'm gonna turn it down and play somewhere else because I know in advance I will not play up to expectations"?

The history of lousy FA works for my argument more than yours, sorry. Particularly so when you factor in guys like Fletcher who have been worth it and more.

3) I guess this is what I don't understand. I personally identify more with the workers than the owners. You do realize that while Peyton is making millions upon millions, an undrafted rookie FA doesn't make that much more than a lot of us on this board? Those guys are who this fight is really about.

And I agree, neither side gives two ****s about us as fans, which is a shame. I guess I would rather have more money go to the players who actually entertain me, rather than owners who continually stick it to me by charging $15 for a beer while I sit in my $500/seat watching a game after having paid $40 to park, while wearing a $85 jersey of my favorite player.

What would be best would be for everyone to take a pay cut and pass the savings along to the fan. But we all know that ain't happening...

don't want to fight with you on the Skins side of BGO! this one obviously verges into politics. caught me early in the moring when the frustration level was a bit high.

both sides have been gaming the fan with PR over the last many mos. I finally grew sick of B-Mitch the other day when he did same in defense of the players (i.e., no balance in his pov). they're knuckleheads (owners, players)who are going to kill fan support if this carries on for too long - especially in this economy that is abt to return to the Carter stagflation glory years . At some point....I can just as easily golf on Sunday afternoons.

 

[Goaldeje]

Mr. King seems to think a deal may be closer than we think:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/03/14/labor/index.html

Nice read.

 

[Goaldeje]

Ugh. This is the sort of thing that will really turn the fans against the players:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/03/15/nflpa-draft-boycott/index.html

 

[fansince62]

Any player who shows up for this is gonna be permanently labeled.

It's childish in the extreme. The draft is gonna happen. All this achieves is depriving a family of a high point.......and creating PR for the players.

On a separate vein....I'd like to start hearing more about which agents are pushing their clients hardest in this negotiation breakdown. these cats need to be held accountable as well when the (hopefully radiation free) dust finally settles.