The Sky Has Really, Really Fallen Thread

[method man]

Not sure which universe you're talking about but he was far from brilliant pick from the get go. He had the same injury on both feet and didnt even contribute in a meaningful way until the last 3rd of the season. The knock on him was that they drafted an injured player with feet issues and so far whatever the reason might be he hasnt even come close to replacing Allen.
Could be that the injuries didnt heal right... or maybe he is just not that good.. but button line is that he's been almost invisible this year.
Interesting point is players that this D coaching staff couldnt do much with like StJuste and Forbes .. seem to be performing ok on other teams. Makes me wonder about the level of coaching here.

The foot injuries, to your point, are why he probably fell in the first place. We, as fans, didn't get to know about these foot issues until days after the draft. Furthermore, I philosophically don't like small sub 300 pound defensive tackles. Yes, Aaron Donald but most of these guys struggle against the run. It was my biggest beef with the DQ defensive personnel philosophy and it proved true in the playoffs for them as Cowboys where guys like Odighizuwa couldn't stop the run.

It's like basketball where I need my centers first and foremost to play great post defense. In football, I need my defensive tackles to be able to stop the run first and foremost and pass rushing ability is secondary.

 

[Neophyte]

Not sure which universe you're talking about but he was far from brilliant pick from the get go. He had the same injury on both feet and didnt even contribute in a meaningful way until the last 3rd of the season. The knock on him was that they drafted an injured player with feet issues and so far whatever the reason might be he hasnt even come close to replacing Allen.
Could be that the injuries didnt heal right... or maybe he is just not that good.. but button line is that he's been almost invisible this year.
Interesting point is players that this D coaching staff couldnt do much with like StJuste and Forbes .. seem to be performing ok on other teams. Makes me wonder about the level of coaching here.

Go back and look at the 2024 Draft Prospect rankings from before the draft. Newton was mid-first round in most of them. I saw him mocked in the 13-14 range more than once. You want to revise history because his foot issues were discovered to be more than anyone (including the player) understood until he was in camp, go right ahead, my man. You do you.

StJuste and Forbes are both playing on teams with a legit pass rush now. The Chargers and the Rams are both Top 10 in sacks but more importantly, they get consisten presser on the QB and force things better than Washington did last year. And sometimes a guy has to get cut or not offered a second deal before they wake up to what they have to do to play in this league. Could coaching be part of it? Sure. But I doubt it's the whole story.

 

[Conn]

They certainly do, in our case they happen over and over again for the past 30+ years. Since 1993, we have had at most four good years (1999, 2005, 2012, and 2024), all of which were followed by spectacular collapses. We have had well over a dozen nightmare seasons (defined as 6 or fewer wins) in the same period.



This would be more convincing if changing circumstances and processes ever made a difference in the outcome. It seems we’ve tried everything: two hall of fame coaches, big-time college coaches, respected vet coaches, first-time head coaches, offensive masterminds, defensive masterminds, big name coordinators, all-star coaching staffs, giving coaches a short leash, giving coaches a long leash, big name general managers, massive free agency spending, stacking draft picks and building through the draft, rookie quarterback sensations, veteran quarterbacks, new ownership, new brand, and so on. None of it has ever worked.



You don’t have to believe in magic to know there is a lot wrong with this franchise. Not only the perpetual losing, but look at our horrible brand, dilapidated stadium, and miserable shrinking fanbase.

I’m glad so many of my fellow fans can enjoy the tank-a-thon and the false hope that comes with it, but I’m just so tired of having this same conversation over and over again.

I wish I could just stop caring about this team, it seems more than anything they just make me miserable, but evidently I can’t quit them. I keep thinking eventually my patience will be rewarded with sustained success, which will be made so much sweeter because of the wait, but if so, when? I still love the team, but I’ve lost all hope that we will ever be good again.

Idk man. Feel how you feel, this season sucks. I don’t mean to be patronizing but you’re the master of your own mind. If the last 30 years rules your thoughts and acts as a force multiplier upon this terrible season, nothing I say can change that.

But a rational person will eventually drift back down to reality and have to acknowledge that new ownership has been here for 28 months. That’s 2 years, 4 months, give or take—and ignores the fact that year 1 began at an awkward time in the calendar and Harris just let the final Rivera year play out. His active ownership really started about 18 months ago.

We would have enacted heinous pagan rituals to oust Snyder and felt that way for decades, desperate and hopeless…and then we won. A little over two years ago we won. I’m really not willing to so easily throw away that feeling of freedom I was gifted after a lifetime of feeling like I was watching football out of spite.

New ownership, unknown future. Nothing that happened the last 30 years matters except when measuring the psychic damage we all sustained through it. But it’s really up to you how much you let that Snyder linger in your brain. To me, that feels like letting him win. I have moments of cynicism and misery but overall I’ve been a lot happier drawing a boundary after the Snyder years in my mind, and remembering that things are new.

What happened before matters in regards to our emotional relationship to the team, of course. But that’s in our hands. Rationally, what happened before doesn’t matter in the least in regards to future outcomes for the team, and not accepting that reality is falling prey to some dark magical thinking.

You seem to feel like loving the team is a burden you can’t escape, I used to feel that way in the Snyder years. But that relationship and how we each approach it is entirely up to each of us.

 

[Conn]

“Space” sighting

 

[Bulldog]

Whitt and Kingsbury need to go,

Whitt because he doesn’t lead or motivate and doesn’t scheme to personnel.

Kingsbury because he is reckless with how he schemes for Daniels and doesn’t consider his longevity a priority.

Job #1 here is to keep Daniels upright and given the proper protection.

I question Peters because he allows Daniels to run 10-12 times a game like Hurts or Jackson but isn’t built for that type of attack.

If I were the owner my first question to Peters would be - why don’t you find a franchise back to put in the backfield and lessen the load on #5.

 

[Riggo44]

Kingsbury because he is reckless with how he schemes for Daniels and doesn’t consider his longevity a priority.

Job #1 here is to keep Daniels upright and given the proper protection.

Two of his injuries though were in the pocket, Green Bay and Dallas, weren't they?

What does Peters have to with play calling? He also went out and got an elite pass protector in Tunsil and drafted a promising tackle in Conerly.

 

[Bulldog]

Daniels took hits on called runs where most teams would use their primary back.

Look at his rushing attempts last year.

That pace is not sustainable.

Part of the reason Daniels runs are so key for this offense is we don’t have a primary back with speed or a pass catching tight end to help take the pressure off.

I agree that Conerly can help us. Amos too.

It’s just a shame beyond Tunsil that we traded picks away for Lattimore and Samuel when we could have drafted players to fill those roles for the next 4-5 years.

Thats what building teams do.

 

[Ashburn Dave]

Whitt and Kingsbury need to go,

Whitt because he doesn’t lead or motivate and doesn’t scheme to personnel.

Kingsbury because he is reckless with how he schemes for Daniels and doesn’t consider his longevity a priority.

Job #1 here is to keep Daniels upright and given the proper protection.

I question Peters because he allows Daniels to run 10-12 times a game like Hurts or Jackson but isn’t built for that type of attack.

If I were the owner my first question to Peters would be - why don’t you find a franchise back to put in the backfield and lessen the load on #5.

Whitt is gone next year. You don't take away playcalling from him unless he has no future.

Kingsbury has another year IMO. Our offense last year was working when we had worthy WR's.

Would I like to upgrade RB? Sure, but it is not our highest priority.

 

[burgold]

Daniels took hits on called runs where most teams would use their primary back.

Look at his rushing attempts last year.

That pace is not sustainable.

Part of the reason Daniels runs are so key for this offense is we don’t have a primary back with speed or a pass catching tight end to help take the pressure off.

I agree that Conerly can help us. Amos too.

It’s just a shame beyond Tunsil that we traded picks away for Lattimore and Samuel when we could have drafted players to fill those roles for the next 4-5 years.

Thats what building teams do.

But Bill does have speed. I think that's why they tried so hard to make him the featured running back. I think the problem isn't speed at running back but that with 2/3s of our receiving corp out the entire season that teams have no fear of stacking the box. Against, heavy boxes speed can be nullified. That's probably why the sledge hammer (Rodriguez) has been a better option. Chris seems to have decent vision and power.

 

[NoCalSkins]

Whitt and Kingsbury need to go,

Whitt because he doesn’t lead or motivate and doesn’t scheme to personnel.

Kingsbury because he is reckless with how he schemes for Daniels and doesn’t consider his longevity a priority.

Job #1 here is to keep Daniels upright and given the proper protection.

I question Peters because he allows Daniels to run 10-12 times a game like Hurts or Jackson but isn’t built for that type of attack.

If I were the owner my first question to Peters would be - why don’t you find a franchise back to put in the backfield and lessen the load on #5.

I think the issue with the Hurts comparison is that Hurts mostly runs out of convenience because the O-line maintains a clean pocket with running lanes for him and it is after all his passing options are exhausted. I don't see Hurts running for his life very often, nor sideline to sideline. It is a very specific way of implementing the QB running option. Jayden is usually taking off due to a collapsed pocket and looking to run sideways to either get to the corner and turn upfield or to maintain the possibility of throwing a pass.

 

[Faithful Fan]

Watching Emmanuel Forbes play at a high level tonight is just another reminder of how bad we are.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Watching Emmanuel Forbes play at a high level tonight is just another reminder of how bad we are.

It's confirmation of something you have been saying for a few weeks.
"What changed?"
My main definitive answer for you is the owner and that's a big deal. However, yes - this is a sure sign that we as fans are going to need patience. The great news here is the owner hired a GM. That means infinite possibility, because as the owner hires a GM and that GM gets his chance, we have a divorce from the top to the main decision making mind, so if that mind doesn't figure it out, it can be replaced (in simple terms). We didn't have that before, ever - our owner could never be out of the loop in any meaningful enough way, which meant we were never going to make real progress.

I don't know that DQ is going to be an answer to anything if he doesn't know how to:
a) pick the right coordinators - mistakes can happen, that's OK!
a2) evaluate that those coordinators and staffs are doing the right things

See, a2 is non-negotiable. It took DQ a long time to figure out something was wrong, and from HIS seat, being --- ?? --- actively involved... I don't get it. It's a lot of time that was spent there, trotting out the same thing, and seeing the same nonsense.

For me, those two things are the most important things you want to see from your HC.

I still think we probably have a good GM. It's hard to tell when you have doubts on the coordinators, but I do think we have a good GM. The fact that we even have a GM, and it's with a new owner? I'm still in 7th heaven there. I get it, it's disappointing, but in the long-term we actually can get better. From how I felt just a couple of years ago, I can't be too upset... yet.

 

[burgold]

I suspect that Whitt as Quinn's long serving lieutenant deserved his shot. He probably had been an excellent positional coach in Quinn's eyes and may have been a key player in developing gameplans while in Dallas and elsewhere so I don't begrudge him that move. It speaks well of Quinn. Unfortunately, like Norv Turner was a better OC than HC, it may be that Whitt's ceiling is positional coach.

It is frustrating that our former players our succeeding elsewhere, especially at areas of need. It's worse to realize that their failure here was at least partly the result of coaching mistakes. It'll be interesting to see to what degree our threadbare defense improves with Quinn resuming the play calling. Mind you, I don't expect a D down its top two corners, top three defensive ends, and a starting safety to suddenly be dominant, but I think we may still learn something. Against Miami, the D seemed to play better, but then again, it was Miami. So, let's see if Quinn can elevate them off the trash heap.

 

[Chris]

Somewhere Ron Rivera is laughing. 😎

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I suspect that Whitt as Quinn's long serving lieutenant deserved his shot. He probably had been an excellent positional coach in Quinn's eyes and may have been a key player in developing gameplans while in Dallas and elsewhere so I don't begrudge him that move. It speaks well of Quinn. Unfortunately, like Norv Turner was a better OC than HC, it may be that Whitt's ceiling is positional coach.

It is frustrating that our former players our succeeding elsewhere, especially at areas of need. It's worse to realize that their failure here was at least partly the result of coaching mistakes. It'll be interesting to see to what degree our threadbare defense improves with Quinn resuming the play calling. Mind you, I don't expect a D down its top two corners, top three defensive ends, and a starting safety to suddenly be dominant, but I think we may still learn something. Against Miami, the D seemed to play better, but then again, it was Miami. So, let's see if Quinn can elevate them off the trash heap.

Process over results - my problem with a lot of the talk here seems to kind of be - "well we are really injured." Our coaches need to be evaluated this year. It should be much easier from DQ's seat to evaluate "process" (do we prepare well, regardless of results? do we have the right plan or scheme to succeed, regardless of results?) - but from our vantage point, we can even see some potential issues there. If we are leaving opportunities on the field on O, that is not OK. For me, very telling when Logan Paulsen has critiques for the offensive playcalling (which he did, on the Dallas game broadcast). He is ridiculously hesitant to ever do that, so you know it has to be over the top bad / obvious, and it was.

Kind of the point here is we have no idea where our areas of need truly *ARE.* We may have good players in place. Without a scheme that gets the best out of your players, this is where you end up. Without an HC who chooses his coordinators carefully (hello Ron!), this is what you have.

Somewhere Ron Rivera is laughing. 😎

I agree, but only because he is too lacking in personal critique to recognize that he failed to display any talents of his players - leading us to a very complicated evaluation situation. It just looks to me like AP trusted his coaches to tell him who was good/bad, and a part of that is the HC being able to evaluate his coordinators and staff. That is where the major failure may have occurred.

 

[Chris]

Oof

 

[DieselPwr44]

Oof

 

[Bulldog]

The Wizards continue to try and tank to get a high draft pick, but then they fail to get the pick necessary to get a player that can be the cornerstone.

That has been a 25 year old curse.

At least the Commanders were able to finish with a lousy record in 2023 and get the #2 overall pick in a year where there was more than ONE potential franchise player out there to select.

Of course the Wizards are the ultimate passive team. They want the pick to come to them.

Teams like the Lakers and Boston end up with franchise players and former top picks by trading picks and dealing for vets that are then packaged in later deals for more picks and cap room to make major free agent signings.

The Wizards will win more games than the Commanders but will likely have a lower winning percentage

 

[DogofWar1]

You know.

As bad as things are...

Imagine the Vikings.



JJ is playing TERRIBLY. Looks like a complete and total bust so far. Jayden's sophomore slump (which isn't much of a slump when you get to advanced analytics and account for team injuries) looks like a pro bowl year by comparison to McCarthy.

Poor kid.

(Ignore reports about the other QB AP liked, IGNORE THEM I say!)

 

[Faithful Fan]

You know.

As bad as things are...

Imagine the Vikings.



JJ is playing TERRIBLY. Looks like a complete and total bust so far. Jayden's sophomore slump (which isn't much of a slump when you get to advanced analytics and account for team injuries) looks like a pro bowl year by comparison to McCarthy.

Poor kid.

(Ignore reports about the other QB AP liked, IGNORE THEM I say!)

I’ll admit I expected JJ to be good, so far that looks like a bad call, he has not stayed healthy or played well at all.

On the other hand, the people who thought Drake Maye was a better pick than JD5 are looking a lot smarter right now.