2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

[RedWolf]

Good to see about Jerzhan!

 

[method man]

Read something interesting the other day that made me want to be a little patient with Magee (especially since he hasn’t actually played much due to injury—something else he needs to be is *available*)

It's also why I don't believe in taking off ball LBs in round 1. It is a hard position to learn and it takes time to adapt. In addition to being low value as defined by salary, you just don't get a lot of expected value juice out of these guys. I like what AP is doing where he is taking bets on traits on these guys Day 3, giving them time and hoping they pan out year 2 / year 3

 

[method man]

I think a general point of being patient with drafts pick is important. It used to be draft picks were given a hot minute, now if a 6th round pick isn't producing by the second half of the first game at an all-pro level, he's a bust and we have to move on.

There is nuance here. I don't think most here really care if a Day 3 pick takes time and eventually busts. That's the expectation with guys taken that late. You hope that these guys can become cheap backups and, if they start, that's a home run.

The expectations are obviously higher for Day 1 and Day 2 picks and it is always painful when a guy at the same position taken near your guy performs better off the bat (Conerly vs Simmons). Fans are also less patient when a front office takes a "luxury pick" like a Newton or reaches for a guy vs consensus like Sinnott.

 

[Conn]

 

[DWinzit]

Still aggressive makes it sound like they have been aggressive. They have not, however they went in with a more aggressive plan then adjusted yet keeping aggressiveness. Now that's what we have been missing, keep it u Joe!!!

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

It's also why I don't believe in taking off ball LBs in round 1. It is a hard position to learn and it takes time to adapt. In addition to being low value as defined by salary, you just don't get a lot of expected value juice out of these guys. I like what AP is doing where he is taking bets on traits on these guys Day 3, giving them time and hoping they pan out year 2 / year 3

Off-Ball LB can be great 1st rounders, but they need to check all the boxes. Where teams fall into traps is drafting for "traits" at that position in the 1st. That rarely works out.

Patrick Willis, Luke Kuechly, Roquan Smith, Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, etc were dynamite from Day 1.

However guys like Isaiah Simmons, Jamin Davis, Zaven Collins, etc flopped cause teams thought they could coach them up.

There's a lot of instinctual traits for LB that should be given as much credit as physical tools, yet they aren't by teams for some reason.

 

[skinsmarydu]

Luke Kuechly

was an absolute machine. /the end

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

There is nuance here. I don't think most here really care if a Day 3 pick takes time and eventually busts. That's the expectation with guys taken that late. You hope that these guys can become cheap backups and, if they start, that's a home run.

The expectations are obviously higher for Day 1 and Day 2 picks and it is always painful when a guy at the same position taken near your guy performs better off the bat (Conerly vs Simmons). Fans are also less patient when a front office takes a "luxury pick" like a Newton or reaches for a guy vs consensus like Sinnott.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. The expectation from fans is that every pick will be an all pro from the first snap.

 

[DieselPwr44]

I don’t know what you’re talking about. The expectation from fans is that every pick will be an all pro from the first snap.

Truest statement ever.
Some in this fanbase wanted McCaffrey cut in preseason. Same with Sinnot.

It usually goes like this:

Redskins fans: We have patience for player development.

Rookie gets on the field and doesn't immediately play like an All-Pro.

Redskins fans: He's a bust ! Cut him now! WTF was Adam Peters thinking??!!

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I agree generally with the point.

Though not sure I always believe Whitt. Same dude who two weeks ago said the communication with the secondary is "great". And the reason why the pass rush looks good is because the coverage is blanketing the Wrs and the QB has no where to go.

For sure you have to parse what a coach says because they don't always tell the truth.

And sometimes you have to weigh who the coach is. For example dumb ass Jay spent years trying to convince me Luavuo (or however you spell his name) was a good player and " I love Rob Kelly" is one of the most damning things a coach has ever said ever.

In this case, however, about a specific player, I think Whitt still has credibility. That might change, but for now, I'll trust him.

 

[skinsinparadise]

For sure you have to parse what a coach says because they don't always tell the truth.

And sometimes you have to weigh who the coach is. For example dumb ass Jay spent years trying to convince me Luavuo (or however you spell his name) was a good player and " I love Rob Kelly" is one of the most damning things a coach has ever said ever.

In this case, however, about a specific player, I think Whitt still has credibility. That might change, but for now, I'll trust him.

I do think its possile that he truly thinks his secondary is great or at least did. It's on my list among other things as to why am not so sure he's the guy going forward.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Truest statement ever.
Some in this fanbase wanted McCaffrey cut in preseason. Same with Sinnot.

It usually goes like this:

Redskins fans: We have patience for player development.

Rookie gets on the field and doesn't immediately play like an All-Pro.

Redskins fans: He's a bust ! Cut him now! WTF was Adam Peters thinking??!!

Joking aside, the fan base started questioning the Sinnott and McCaffery picks after about 5 games of last season.

In fact, and this was hysterical, in the game chat against Tampa Bay in WEEK 1!!!!! some damn fool said "well, we've found our next RGIII" somewhere in the middle of the first half. And then went on to say something like "he can run but he'll never be able to pass." I don't remember who it was. And then there was a week of echo chambering within a segment of the fan base that we found a running QB who couldn't pass.

It took Daniels about 2 weeks to change the narrative on that one, and now it's easy to forget the criticism JD5 took for the first half of his first game in the NFL.

This isn't just our fan base. It's society at large. We've lost patience with everything.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I do think its possile that he truly thinks his secondary is great or at least did. It's on my list among other things as to why am not so sure he's the guy going forward.

My $.02 is the secondary has been entirely inconsistent. So sometimes it is great, and sometimes it's terrible, and depending on the week you ask him, he says whatever his last impression is.

And I have no idea if he's the right guy or not. I do think he's better than Hazlett, Joe Barry (who I think is STILL statistically the worst DC in the history of football who Jay Gruden somehow hired), Manusky and Jack Del Rio.

I would like to learn more about the DBs coach. I don't know much about him, he wasn't with Quinn/Whitt/Peters before that I can tell, so I don't know what the connection is, but I wonder if that might be a spot where what he's putting down is not being picked up.

The coordinator does not teach the position groups technique or communication. That's the position coach's job. The coordinator puts together the scheme, and tells the position coaches to teach the scheme. DBs communication has been a problem for both seasons this staff has been here (and long before that), so I wonder if it's not just Whitt, but also position coach related.

 

[skinsmarydu]

. I do think he's better than Hazlett, Joe Barry (who I think is STILL statistically the worst DC in the history of football who Jay Gruden somehow hired), Manusky and Jack Del Rio.

Let's not forget Coach Rah (as he's called here in ATL on the radio). Never saw that coming, and I have a great hatred for the Falcons and their fans, ask anyone.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Let's not forget Coach Rah (as he's called here in ATL on the radio). Never saw that coming, and I have a great hatred for the Falcons and their fans, ask anyone.

He wasn't DC. I also have always like Morris. I thought he got a rather raw deal in Tampa.

Not a huge fan of the Falcons.

There was a non-zero chance Morris was going to end up the coach here, except the Falcons grabbed him before we were done with the process. It would really have been interesting to see if Morris and Quinn were both available after Ben Johnson committed his act of treason, who Peters would have selected. By all accounts, they REALLY liked Morris, but he wasn't an option for them.

 

[formerly4skins]

Joe Barry (who I think is STILL statistically the worst DC in the history of football who Jay Gruden somehow hired)

Always figured that was at least in part Jay trying to insulate himself by ensuring none of the coordinators were suitable interim HCs.

McVey had just got his driver's license and Barry was just incompetent.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Always figured that was at least in part Jay trying to insulate himself by ensuring none of the coordinators were suitable interim HCs.

McVey had just got his driver's license and Barry was just incompetent.

Maybe. Jay was a damn fool. McVay wasn't going to take Jay's job, he's stated as much. I said after the 2016 season they should have fired Jay and promoted McVay, but McVay, at some point was asked if he would have been interested in the Redskins job and he said he absolutely would not have taken it if it cost Jay his job. I appreciate the loyalty.

The other main candidate for the job was Wade Phillips. But Wade wanted things Jay (and probably Bruce) weren't willing to concede, which was some authority on coaching staff and even input in personnel.

Hindsight being 20/20, they should have given Wade the job. Apparently Wade's interview was also a shit show where Jay insulted him.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Maybe. Jay was a damn fool. McVay wasn't going to take Jay's job, he's stated as much. I said after the 2016 season they should have fired Jay and promoted McVay, but McVay, at some point was asked if he would have been interested in the Redskins job and he said he absolutely would not have taken it if it cost Jay his job. I appreciate the loyalty.

The other main candidate for the job was Wade Phillips. But Wade wanted things Jay (and probably Bruce) weren't willing to concede, which was some authority on coaching staff and even input in personnel.

Hindsight being 20/20, they should have given Wade the job. Apparently Wade's interview was also a shit show where Jay insulted him.

Jay and Shanny IMO had one fatal flaw in common. That is they seemed threatened by big name defensive coordinators. Part of Joe Gibbs' charm was he didn't care about that, he would go for the best.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Jay and Shanny IMO had one fatal flaw in common. That is they seemed threatened by big name defensive coordinators. Part of Joe Gibbs' charm was he didn't care about that, he would go for the best.

Jay had many fatal flaws. This was one of them.

I'm not sure if Shanahan had that. Hazlett was actually a pretty big name at that point. Remember, he was a head coach and if memory serves, Haz was a coach of the year at one point in New Orleans. Checked: yes, Haz was the NFL 2000 coach of the year in 2000.

Greg Robinson was DC for Shanahan in Denver, and was pretty well respected and good at his job. The back part of his tenure in Denver, you might be right. But I'm not sure it was a trend.

 

[SkinsFTW]

was an absolute machine. /the end

RR definitely didn't make that pick.